. Forum

[Anonymous User]

.

[sideroxylon]

what's the firm?

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I had callbacks with S&K and Duane Morris that I'm waiting to hear back from but with that said my take here is this. If you think you would be happy doing real estate at Duval or Shipping Lit / Hedge fund work at S&K do one of those because both firms seem to excel at their primary areas. If you don't think any of those areas appeal to you then Duane Morris might offer you more flexibility. You also have to consider New York v. Philly and what city you rather live in.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I had callbacks with S&K and Duane Morris that I'm waiting to hear back from but with that said my take here is this. If you think you would be happy doing real estate at Duval or Shipping Lit / Hedge fund work at S&K do one of those because both firms seem to excel at their primary areas. If you don't think any of those areas appeal to you then Duane Morris might offer you more flexibility. You also have to consider New York v. Philly and what city you rather live in.

Did you vote Duval? I'd prefer Philly but think my exit options are better in NY. Philly has 5 big firms so if you leave then the options turn very sad. Since most ppl leave, I am worried about working in Philly. Also, no lockstep at Duane Morris.

I voted for Duval although since I'm waiting to hear from the other two I could be biased by self interest. I think others in this thread have summed it up well though. Duval might be a little more risk/reward but if you wanted real estate it seems like a really good option. I applied there and if I remember from their website it seemed they intended to make offers to all their associates although as others have said that is something to look into. Now that you have the offers you could even set up a second look at the firms if you go to school in the north east just to try and feel them out more.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I think you're getting a bit caught up in the whole "vault" thing. I'm sure Duane Morris is a nice firm and all, but it aint exactly the epitome of prestige. Duval is paying the same if not a little more so it's not a money thing either. I think the above posters have put it nicely - if Real Estate is your thing or might be your thing then go Duval all the way. If you know that you don't want Real Estate go with DM. If you don't know either way I would still go Duval. They seem to be very active in recruiting and lateraling and Real Estate is booming right now especially in New York.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why everyone is drinking the Duval koolaid . One of their attorneys tried to sell that they bill clients at lower hourly rates than competitors was somehow a plus and part of their strategy to win business. Also you have the recent shift from a model which essentially claimed that their were good associates to be found at lower ranked schools to one which tries to win top talent by paying slightly more. They don't really seem to have a long term strategy and bounce around to whatever might draw in new associates this week.

Also I felt like I was being pitched a timeshare during my screener interview (and when I read what they post on ATL). It all just seems like bells and whistles and little actual substance. Why would you take a risk on this firm when you have other options?

[Anonymous User]

.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I don't know why everyone is drinking the Duval koolaid . One of their attorneys tried to sell that they bill clients at lower hourly rates than competitors was somehow a plus and part of their strategy to win business. Also you have the recent shift from a model which essentially claimed that their were good associates to be found at lower ranked schools to one which tries to win top talent by paying slightly more. They don't really seem to have a long term strategy and bounce around to whatever might draw in new associates this week.

Also I felt like I was being pitched a timeshare during my screener interview (and when I read what they post on ATL). It all just seems like bells and whistles and little actual substance. Why would you take a risk on this firm when you have other options?

+a million

It's also a firm that literally advertises (in so many words) that their non-real estate practices suck.

Just a weird gamble to take with your career IMO.

Also: I don't know if (and sorta doubt) they pay market bonuses. In which case your comp would be basically market, not over market (for NYC, which is still more money than Philly, though you still come out behind considering COL.)

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

They say they will still pay market bonuses. They also pay lockstep and Duane Morris does not. Morgan Lewis and Dechert pay lockstep in philly at a much reduced rate to account for COL. Do you think merit raises could every be in the same realm as the lockstep raises. Also, what is some going to do in Philly when Duane Morris tells them to get lost? Not exactly anything else going on there besides the above mentioned firms drinker, pepper and comcast.

Not disagreeing that Duane Morris isn't a great option either, but who knows how anyone views Duval for exit options, and the fact that you can't find anyone anywhere endorsing the idea that they're anything bordering on being a major player in Real Estate besides the firm's own advertising should terrify you. I still think OP should go with Seward and don't understand why he's dropping them.

[Anonymous User]

...

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

They say they will still pay market bonuses. They also pay lockstep and Duane Morris does not. Morgan Lewis and Dechert pay lockstep in philly at a much reduced rate to account for COL. Do you think merit raises could every be in the same realm as the lockstep raises. Also, what is some going to do in Philly when Duane Morris tells them to get lost? Not exactly anything else going on there besides the above mentioned firms drinker, pepper and comcast.

Not disagreeing that Duane Morris isn't a great option either, but who knows how anyone views Duval for exit options, and the fact that you can't find anyone anywhere endorsing the idea that they're anything bordering on being a major player in Real Estate besides the firm's own advertising should terrify you. I still think OP should go with Seward and don't understand why he's dropping them.

I agree with everything said in this post. Duval has some seriously aggressive marketing as being the "best and biggest real estate" practice in NYC or whatever (and frankly it's also just downright weird--WTF is up with their whole hedgehog thing?), but they aren't ranked on chambers for anything (painfully absent from the real estate rankings) and the only thing I've ever heard about the quality of their practice has come from them.

I would go to a more mainstream and established firm, probably Seward. Duane Morris is very Philly-centric and I think Seward will close the least doors of the three options.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

The dude I know with the most FU money was a real estate developer who retired in 2005. That could be you.

[sideroxylon]

what would ken do??

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

OP why are you so opposed to SewKis? You get work life balance, $160K, and an established name it what it does. Is that not worth more than the $45k extra for the first 3 years you'll get if Duval doesn't decide to change its associate salaries yet again? I don't have a dog in this fight as I've already accepted another offer in NYC, but was so turned off by Duval in their interviews that I can't understand why anyone would accept their offers. It's all marketing.

[sideroxylon]

OP here. I'll go where Ken tells me to go. But, I think Philly big law is not a good career move. As of now, its Duval.

that was a joke (and Ken would go to Duval obvi) but I'm with the group that says SewKiss is your best option

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

OP why are you so opposed to SewKis? You get work life balance, $160K, and an established name it what it does. Is that not worth more than the $45k extra for the first 3 years you'll get if Duval doesn't decide to change its associate salaries yet again? I don't have a dog in this fight as I've already accepted another offer in NYC, but was so turned off by Duval in their interviews that I can't understand why anyone would accept their offers. It's all marketing.

Op here. What makes you think this? I spoke with an associate who made it very clear that there are plethora of exit options and if anything people are exiting to more recognized vault firms.

Maybe you're right, but I think the whole firm has a vested interest in attracting better talent which is why they've raised salaries. If they were getting the kind of people they wanted, they wouldn't be spending tons of money on ATL, and increasing associates salaries. Doing a search just now on linkedin I could only find one person who went to FF from Duval (and then proceeded to last at FF for about a year) and no one at GT, maybe there are others, but I just wouldn't make a bet on this firm, but it's your life. Go look at their news releases on their website are those really headline worthy work?

[Anonymous User]

.