Callback:Offers ratio Forum

[baal hadad]

Any advice for call backs to small litigation boutiques?

Come up w a good reason for why you want to work in a lit boutique

[KidStuddi]

I might be wrong but I've been told by multiple sources that if you've been offered a callback that you can rest assured that you won't be dinged for grades.

I think this is literally true, but it makes little practical difference. Grades still matter at the CB stage. You won't be disqualified from consideration because of them but other people will get bonus points over you because theirs are better. Net result is still that it's still far more difficult to get an offer with a 3.0 than a 4.0.

[Anonymous User]

Above usc/ucla anon. Conversion rate seems a lot worse for non-NYC markets too. What I'm hearing about LA firms is that this year a lot of them are calling back a lot more people (maybe even 2x) than they could have spots for. Each of the 3 cbs i've gone to in LA i've found I was always surprised how many other people got CBs

From the numbers I've seen at my T14 and some classmates I've spoken with, LA and CA in general seem to be a bit tougher than NYC. I know a few ppl who had a decent amount of callbacks in LA, but none seemed to crack the 50 percent mark for cb:offer. Personally, I went 2/10 in CBs in LA (with rock solid ties) and 1/2 in SV (top 10% of a T14). I could just be aspie as shit tho.

Maybe its better for the local schools.

[Anonymous User]

I might be wrong but I've been told by multiple sources that if you've been offered a callback that you can rest assured that you won't be dinged for grades.

I think this is literally true, but it makes little practical difference. Grades still matter at the CB stage. You won't be disqualified from consideration because of them but other people will get bonus points over you because theirs are better. Net result is still that it's still far more difficult to get an offer with a 3.0 than a 4.0.

How do people with better grades get bonus points? At 3/4 callbacks I've been to, the interviewers didn't even have my transcript in front of them. Is the hiring committee going to revisit people's transcripts?

[ymmv]

I might be wrong but I've been told by multiple sources that if you've been offered a callback that you can rest assured that you won't be dinged for grades.

I think this is literally true, but it makes little practical difference. Grades still matter at the CB stage. You won't be disqualified from consideration because of them but other people will get bonus points over you because theirs are better. Net result is still that it's still far more difficult to get an offer with a 3.0 than a 4.0.

How do people with better grades get bonus points? At 3/4 callbacks I've been to, the interviewers didn't even have my transcript in front of them. Is the hiring committee going to revisit people's transcripts?

I assume it's the difference between them staring at their evaluation form and thinking "Wow, that guy was charming and sounds competent, and he has the stellar grades to show it" and "Wow, that guy was charming and sounds competent, but his grades are shit, and I'm not sure what to make of that."

[KidStuddi]

I might be wrong but I've been told by multiple sources that if you've been offered a callback that you can rest assured that you won't be dinged for grades.

I think this is literally true, but it makes little practical difference. Grades still matter at the CB stage. You won't be disqualified from consideration because of them but other people will get bonus points over you because theirs are better. Net result is still that it's still far more difficult to get an offer with a 3.0 than a 4.0.

How do people with better grades get bonus points? At 3/4 callbacks I've been to, the interviewers didn't even have my transcript in front of them. Is the hiring committee going to revisit people's transcripts?

Hiring committee with the aid and input of the legal recruiting staff. They'll go over the various evaluations to see about fit and the resume/transcript for some semblance of objective merit and try to pick the best candidates. They're also the ones who are going to consider other intangibles like quotas from particular schools, gender/other diversity targets, matching the desires of candidates with the needs of the various practice groups, etc. From what I hear, it's kind of like building a draft board with pre-set backups incase they aren't able to get their "tier one" choices.

Every firm is going to care more about one category than the others, but pretty much every firm is going to give weight to grades when deciding between the candidates. The CB evaluations are important, but they're far from scientific and it would be really shitty to base everything on them. For instance, my firm (V10 if it matters) gives us a form that is basically rate this interview 1-10 and then gives us some prompts for short answers (e.g., do you see any reason why this candidate would potentially be a poor fit for us?) and space to write comments. There's no effort at all to normalize what makes a candidate a 7 vs a 9 or anything like that. It takes less than a minute. If they're just adding up those numbers and handing out offers to the highest it'd be arbitrary as shit.

[wert3813]

Others will know better than me but I've also heard not all cb interviews are equal. Some will be with associates who are checking to make sure normal/not dueshey/tolerable at 1 am on a Friday. Some with be with hiring partners who are really trying to test you.

[ymmv]

Others will know better than me but I've also heard not all cb interviews are equal. Some will be with associates who are checking to make sure normal/not dueshey/tolerable at 1 am on a Friday. Some with be with hiring partners who are really trying to test you.

Usually a mix of both IME.

[wert3813]

Others will know better than me but I've also heard not all cb interviews are equal. Some will be with associates who are checking to make sure normal/not dueshey/tolerable at 1 am on a Friday. Some with be with hiring partners who are really trying to test you.

Usually a mix of both IME.

What sort of questions are more appropriate for cbs? I'm still avoiding questions about hours, etc but would like to hear more, particularly from associates, of what sort of work they are doing on particular matters, what a typical day looks like, and not just stock questions about getting work and choosing a practice area. Kosher?

[ymmv]

Others will know better than me but I've also heard not all cb interviews are equal. Some will be with associates who are checking to make sure normal/not dueshey/tolerable at 1 am on a Friday. Some with be with hiring partners who are really trying to test you.

Usually a mix of both IME.

What sort of questions are more appropriate for cbs? I'm still avoiding questions about hours, etc but would like to hear more, particularly from associates, of what sort of work they are doing on particular matters, what a typical day looks like, and not just stock questions about getting work and choosing a practice area. Kosher?

Typical day is fine. So is practice area specifics. Don't ask about hours or anything like that - associates will volunteer that kind of work-life info unprompted when they take you out to lunch.

But then, I'm still in the middle of this whole thing, so what do I know.

[Anonymous User]

Others will know better than me but I've also heard not all cb interviews are equal. Some will be with associates who are checking to make sure normal/not dueshey/tolerable at 1 am on a Friday. Some with be with hiring partners who are really trying to test you.

Usually a mix of both IME.

What sort of questions are more appropriate for cbs? I'm still avoiding questions about hours, etc but would like to hear more, particularly from associates, of what sort of work they are doing on particular matters, what a typical day looks like, and not just stock questions about getting work and choosing a practice area. Kosher?

Yeah. Those are legitimate questions. I've asked them (typical day/what type of work do they do/etc) to every associate I've spoken to at every CB this week and have yet to not receive an offer, so totally kosher IME. Hours almost always come up organically at lunch.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I don't ask about hours generally. I've had one associate offer that information during an interview ( he pulled up his time from last year) and one partner who pretty much said "ask me whatever, and I'm not going to put the recruiting spin on it," so I asked him some pretty candid questions because I got the opinion that he wouldn't care for the typical bs.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have info on CB:Offer ratio from one of the local Philly schools. I have CBs at a couple of MLB/Drinker/Pepper/Blank/Reed/Dechert/Cozen. OCI is all preselect and most of these firms only hire 1 or 2, if any, from my school every year. I imagine decent odds since they usually hire 1 but tend to do 3 or fewer CBs with students from our school. Thoughts, anecdotes, rumors?

[sublime]

..

[baal hadad]

Anyone have info on CB:Offer ratio from one of the local Philly schools. I have CBs at a couple of MLB/Drinker/Pepper/Blank/Reed/Dechert/Cozen. OCI is all preselect and most of these firms only hire 1 or 2, if any, from my school every year. I imagine decent odds since they usually hire 1 but tend to do 3 or fewer CBs with students from our school. Thoughts, anecdotes, rumors?

Stop reading tea leaves

Start mass mailing

[Neil Fingleton]

Anyone have info on CB:Offer ratio from one of the local Philly schools. I have CBs at a couple of MLB/Drinker/Pepper/Blank/Reed/Dechert/Cozen. OCI is all preselect and most of these firms only hire 1 or 2, if any, from my school every year. I imagine decent odds since they usually hire 1 but tend to do 3 or fewer CBs with students from our school. Thoughts, anecdotes, rumors?

Stop reading tea leaves

Start mass mailing

Original and helpful answer to his question. Kudos to you for making the internet a better place!

[09042014]

Anyone have info on CB:Offer ratio from one of the local Philly schools. I have CBs at a couple of MLB/Drinker/Pepper/Blank/Reed/Dechert/Cozen. OCI is all preselect and most of these firms only hire 1 or 2, if any, from my school every year. I imagine decent odds since they usually hire 1 but tend to do 3 or fewer CBs with students from our school. Thoughts, anecdotes, rumors?

Stop reading tea leaves

Start mass mailing

Original and helpful answer to his question. Kudos to you for making the internet a better place!

There is no reason to need this "data" other than to read tea leaves. It's good advice. Take it you idiot.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone hear of offers from reed or dm (Phil)?

[Anonymous User]

Another UCLA/USC anon here. Above-median grades, LR. 12 CBs and 3 offers.