Falsifying GPA Forum

[baal hadad]

Has anyone ever falsified their GPA on their resume, or heard of anyone doing this, to get a legal job or an interview?

Obviously this would only work if the employer only asked for an unofficial transcript or did not ask for a transcript at all. What are the chances an employer will always ask for an official transcript after the interview? If the employer did ask for official transcripts, you could just say you decided take a job elsewhere. All you would have lost is a job offer you probably wouldn't have gotten anyway. Granted, one is less likely to get away with this at a large firm, but perhaps a small firm would not have a policy on providing official transcripts.

In once heard of someone falsely stating they had a degree in biology when they actually had a degree in psychology to get a prestigious research job. Apparently it worked out for them, according to my source. But this could have just been an urban legend.

Did you anon bc you didn't want other poasters to find out you're asking silly Qs?

No, I did it because it is a sensitive question and its often not hard to figure out who someone is on TLS if you really try.

Its not silly question. I was only questioning whether there falsifying GPA was pervasive or rare or nonexistent. If we can't ask these questions on TLS, where can we ask them?

I think the point was that it is a stupid question because of common sense. It doesn't take a genius to know not to do this.

Also "has anyone ever done this" is also a stupid Q

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever falsified their GPA on their resume, or heard of anyone doing this, to get a legal job or an interview?

Obviously this would only work if the employer only asked for an unofficial transcript or did not ask for a transcript at all. What are the chances an employer will always ask for an official transcript after the interview? If the employer did ask for official transcripts, you could just say you decided take a job elsewhere. All you would have lost is a job offer you probably wouldn't have gotten anyway. Granted, one is less likely to get away with this at a large firm, but perhaps a small firm would not have a policy on providing official transcripts.

In once heard of someone falsely stating they had a degree in biology when they actually had a degree in psychology to get a prestigious research job. Apparently it worked out for them, according to my source. But this could have just been an urban legend.

Did you anon bc you didn't want other poasters to find out you're asking silly Qs?

No, I did it because it is a sensitive question and its often not hard to figure out who someone is on TLS if you really try.

Its not silly question. I was only questioning whether there falsifying GPA was pervasive or rare or nonexistent. If we can't ask these questions on TLS, where can we ask them?

I think the point was that it is a stupid question because of common sense. It doesn't take a genius to know not to do this.

The question is not whether I should do it. The question was whether it happens.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone ever falsified their GPA on their resume, or heard of anyone doing this, to get a legal job or an interview?

Obviously this would only work if the employer only asked for an unofficial transcript or did not ask for a transcript at all. What are the chances an employer will always ask for an official transcript after the interview? If the employer did ask for official transcripts, you could just say you decided take a job elsewhere. All you would have lost is a job offer you probably wouldn't have gotten anyway. Granted, one is less likely to get away with this at a large firm, but perhaps a small firm would not have a policy on providing official transcripts.

In once heard of someone falsely stating they had a degree in biology when they actually had a degree in psychology to get a prestigious research job. Apparently it worked out for them, according to my source. But this could have just been an urban legend.

Did you anon bc you didn't want other poasters to find out you're asking silly Qs?

No, I did it because it is a sensitive question and its often not hard to figure out who someone is on TLS if you really try.

Its not silly question. I was only questioning whether there falsifying GPA was pervasive or rare or nonexistent. If we can't ask these questions on TLS, where can we ask them?

I think the point was that it is a stupid question because of common sense. It doesn't take a genius to know not to do this.

The question is not whether I should do this, but whether it happens.

[banjo]

There was a high-profile news story about this exact thing: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/01/harvard- ... anscripts/. Guy got caught.

[thebarcaneatme]

There was a high-profile news story about this exact thing: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/01/harvard- ... anscripts/. Guy got caught.

moral of the story: Don't get caught

If you lie to manpower or burgerking you'll be ok.
(just in case online grads are reading this in CA)

[dixiecupdrinking]

There could be thousands of people who have successfully done this... How would we know?

[Anonymous User]

We would know if someone who has changed there GPA a bit shares their story Soooo lets hear it, anyone done this? Or maybe it really never happens? Anon?

[CoffeeIsLife]

No one is going to post their story if they lied about it. Even posting anon I'm pretty sure the Mods can see who it was. There is no benefit of talking about this. If someone got away with this they would need to never talk about it to anyone. Just use common sense and don't lie about your grades and risk losing your bar membership

[Anonymous User]

No one is going to post their story if they lied about it. Even posting anon I'm pretty sure the Mods can see who it was. There is no benefit of talking about this. If someone got away with this they would need to never talk about it to anyone. Just use common sense and don't lie about your grades and risk losing your bar membership

Yes you risk loosing your bar membership, but you also gain the possibility of a better job, more money, etc.

Why does anybody lie or cheat? Look at all the people who have been caught cheating at Ivy League schools. And these are only the people who got caught. For every one person who gets caught many more are actually doing it. This alone proves that the issue is not as simple as you make it out to be, as some very smart people lie and cheat.

[CoffeeIsLife]

No one is going to post their story if they lied about it. Even posting anon I'm pretty sure the Mods can see who it was. There is no benefit of talking about this. If someone got away with this they would need to never talk about it to anyone. Just use common sense and don't lie about your grades and risk losing your bar membership

Yes you risk loosing your bar membership, but you also gain the possibility of a better job, more money, etc.

Why does anybody lie or cheat? Look at all the people who have been caught cheating at Ivy League schools. And these are only the people who got caught. For every one person who gets caught many more are actually doing it. This alone proves that the issue is not as simple as you make it out to be, as some very smart people lie and cheat.

I never said you have to be dumb to cheat or lie. I said it is dumb to lie or cheat. You have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. To me its common sense not to do this, maybe I'm in the minority I don't know. All I am saying is that you shouldn't do this, it would be a better use of your time to network in your target market and make actual connections than it would be to lie about your grades and have to put time and energy into keeping your head above water with the lie.

[Anonymous User]

No one is going to post their story if they lied about it. Even posting anon I'm pretty sure the Mods can see who it was. There is no benefit of talking about this. If someone got away with this they would need to never talk about it to anyone. Just use common sense and don't lie about your grades and risk losing your bar membership

Yes you risk loosing your bar membership, but you also gain the possibility of a better job, more money, etc.

Why does anybody lie or cheat? Look at all the people who have been caught cheating at Ivy League schools. And these are only the people who got caught. For every one person who gets caught many more are actually doing it. This alone proves that the issue is not as simple as you make it out to be, as some very smart people lie and cheat.

I never said you have to be dumb to cheat or lie. I said it is dumb to lie or cheat. You have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. To me its common sense not to do this, maybe I'm in the minority I don't know. All I am saying is that you shouldn't do this, it would be a better use of your time to network in your target market and make actual connections than it would be to lie about your grades and have to put time and energy into keeping your head above water with the lie.

Changing your GPA on an unofficial transcript takes about 10 to 15 min. Keeping up the lie also really requires not additional time. So I'm not sure what you mean by "better use of your time."

[Anonymous User]

No one is going to post their story if they lied about it. Even posting anon I'm pretty sure the Mods can see who it was. There is no benefit of talking about this. If someone got away with this they would need to never talk about it to anyone. Just use common sense and don't lie about your grades and risk losing your bar membership

Yes you risk loosing your bar membership, but you also gain the possibility of a better job, more money, etc.

Why does anybody lie or cheat? Look at all the people who have been caught cheating at Ivy League schools. And these are only the people who got caught. For every one person who gets caught many more are actually doing it. This alone proves that the issue is not as simple as you make it out to be, as some very smart people lie and cheat.

I never said you have to be dumb to cheat or lie. I said it is dumb to lie or cheat. You have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. To me its common sense not to do this, maybe I'm in the minority I don't know. All I am saying is that you shouldn't do this, it would be a better use of your time to network in your target market and make actual connections than it would be to lie about your grades and have to put time and energy into keeping your head above water with the lie.

I actually think the risk is worth the reward, given the high reward of access to the best/highest paying jobs and the very small possibility of getting caught. Thus, I disagree with you notion that "it is dumb."

However, I still would not change my grades because of some small semblance of morality I seem to be holding on to. Why I am holding on to this, I do not know.

[Anonymous User]

I highly, highly suggest you don't do this. If you get caught, your name will become taboo if the firm knows anyone (and they might).

[Briney Spring Gun]

Don't do this, and if you know someone who is, you should say something.

Not only do you tarnish your own name, but you disrespect every other person who worked hard to earn qualifying GPAs. Besides, GPA is not the only way to get interviews. If you had networked during the year you probably would have gotten interviews anyways. Extra-curriculars, journals, moot court, etc., all help out. But cheating is just F*cked up, and think of the honest kid who you're stepping over just because you weren't good enough in the classroom.

[Briney Spring Gun]

Right, because no one would ever deserve a biglaw job unless they were in the top 10% of their class.

In this economy, pretty much. This is why law school is such a gamble. You didn't believe the horror stories before matriculating, did you? Typical Generation Y "entitlement" attitude.

[Anonymous User]

Right, because no one would ever deserve a biglaw job unless they were in the top 10% of their class.

In this economy, pretty much. This is why law school is such a gamble. You didn't believe the horror stories before matriculating, did you? Typical Generation Y "entitlement" attitude.

I'm not Gen Y Briney. And I don't doubt that this is the system, I'm saying the system dosn't get the best lawyers in to the best jobs. It get the best students into the best jobs.

[Anonymous User]

Right, because no one would ever deserve a biglaw job unless they were in the top 10% of their class.

In this economy, pretty much. This is why law school is such a gamble. You didn't believe the horror stories before matriculating, did you? Typical Generation Y "entitlement" attitude.

I'm not Gen Y Briney. And I don't doubt that this is the system, I'm saying the system dosn't get the best lawyers in to the best jobs. It get the best students into the best jobs.

Yeah because they're all students so there's no baseline for who is a better lawyer or not yet. So we need students who are hard-working.

[XxSpyKEx]

There's probably a TON of people who have successfully cheated their ways into jobs they had no business in getting in the first place. Altering transcripts is pretty low-level, if you ask me. There's a lot of people who lie about degrees they never received and about jobs they never had. Then there's the million successful crooks on wall street. It seems like its typically the most egregious Bernie Madoff types that get busted, which is precisely what the guy from the ATL article--Maratoma--was ($9M bonus while your 30s is pretty extreme).

I, for one, think OP should do this, and then come back here to inform us about what he altered on his transcript, what jobs he received offers at, and what job he ultimately took.

[Anonymous User]

Don't do this, and if you know someone who is, you should say something.

Not only do you tarnish your own name, but you disrespect every other person who worked hard to earn qualifying GPAs. Besides, GPA is not the only way to get interviews. If you had networked during the year you probably would have gotten interviews anyways. Extra-curriculars, journals, moot court, etc., all help out. But cheating is just F*cked up, and think of the honest kid who you're stepping over just because you weren't good enough in the classroom.

First off, if you read my earlier post, I explicitly said I would NOT do this. Second of all I have legal job and I am not a law student.

[Anonymous User]

Right, because no one would ever deserve a biglaw job unless they were in the top 10% of their class.

In this economy, pretty much. This is why law school is such a gamble. You didn't believe the horror stories before matriculating, did you? Typical Generation Y "entitlement" attitude.

I'm not Gen Y Briney. And I don't doubt that this is the system, I'm saying the system dosn't get the best lawyers in to the best jobs. It get the best students into the best jobs.

Yeah because they're all students so there's no baseline for who is a better lawyer or not yet. So we need students who are hard-working.

There are TONS of there, probably better, ways to evaluate entry level attorneys. Internship/clerkship/clinic experience is one, prior work experience before law school is another, area of law school focus is yet another. My main point is that the legal profession, more so than any other field, is fixated on GPA's to a fault.

[Anonymous User]

There's probably a TON of people who have successfully cheated their ways into jobs they had no business in getting in the first place. Altering transcripts is pretty low-level, if you ask me. There's a lot of people who lie about degrees they never received and about jobs they never had. Then there's the million successful crooks on wall street. It seems like its typically the most egregious Bernie Madoff types that get busted, which is precisely what the guy from the ATL article--Maratoma--was ($9M bonus while your 30s is pretty extreme).

I, for one, think OP should do this, and then come back here to inform us about what he altered on his transcript, what jobs he received offers at, and what job he ultimately took.

I wish I morally could do this just as experiment, but I not willing to go down that road.

[1styearlateral]

Sorry for necroing an old thread, but I did not want to create a new one where there has already been decent discussion.

Anyone ever hear of an applicant falsifying class rank? IME, this information is not published on a student's transcript. Could be used, I suppose, to lighten the blow of a lower GPA, especially if your school does not inflate grades.

Not condoning this in any way but I was curious about the GPA falsification.

[A. Nony Mouse]

My understanding is that if a school gives out ranks, that actually is published on your transcript (source: my school, which published that info on your transcript). So I don't think it's going to go well. (If the school doesn't give out ranks, generally students at that school aren't allowed to put their rank on a resume/cover letter at all.)

[1styearlateral]

My understanding is that if a school gives out ranks, that actually is published on your transcript (source: my school, which published that info on your transcript). So I don't think it's going to go well. (If the school doesn't give out ranks, generally students at that school aren't allowed to put their rank on a resume/cover letter at all.)

That would make sense for OCI purposes, but what about post-grad. The school can't really do anything about their graduates' resumes. Also, anecdotally, I've heard of schools giving out rankings after graduation, but not indicating those rankings on a transcript. Why a school that ranks its students but fails to provide an official method of class rank verification is beyond me, but maybe class rank doesn't make up for shitty grades anyway so it's not really seen as an issue.

I only ask because I have definitely read on these forums suggestions that students list their class rank in conjunction with their GPA to demonstrate that their school does not inflate grades (i.e., with GPA/transcript alone, they'd look like pretty horrible candidates).

[A. Nony Mouse]

I figure if you're applying to a post-grad job that doesn't ask for a transcript, they don't care about your grades anyway so you're not going to get any advantage from lying about something that's probably not hard to verify.

(I'm of the school that thinks none of this would be worth it, so I don't spend a lot of time parsing how it could be done. I know of someone who I think gave a fake rank on a cover letter for a job, but it was during law school, and it was stupid because it was during 1L when the school hadn't calculated rankings at all yet, and it was a job in the market where the school was the dominant school/there were lots of local alums who could be expected to know the school's ranking practices. The employer informed our OCI and the guy got in some kind of trouble, though I don't know what exactly. He wasn't expelled but I suspect he was banned from OCI/using our CSO.)