Biglaw associate taking questions Forum

[AnonAssociate]

Thanks for doing this! Let's say your firm has 1 SA position. How many screeners do you give for that position? How about callbacks?

I couldn't give you actual percentages. But I'd guess that we give callbacks to fewer than half of the people who get screeners. And I'd guess that we give offers to fewer than half the people who get callbacks. This is one thing I really didn't understand as a 2L - I thought once I had the callback, the offer was mine to lose. Thats not the case.

On the plus side, because we do a good job screening out applicants, all our summers get offers unless something goes terribly wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Other than testing for personality and fit does your firm have other "dealbreaker" criteria other than GPA? For example, how influential is law review / lack of law review? How influential is "law school involvement"?

[20160810]

Do you use the same cutoffs for Davis and Hastings?

I don't know the cutoffs for those two schools. Why do you ask?

I went to Davis so I was just curious. My impression is firms generally want to see you in the top 15 percent at both and that's not changing due to the ranking shifts (Davis has been ranked a little higher for the past 5 years or so). I think my firm uses the same cutoff for both but I was wondering if that was standard practice or starting to change.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

If someone lived in this area for at least a few years - whether they grew up here, went to undergrad here, went to law school here - I'll believe them when they say they want to live here. It's a pretty believable story that you always wanted to move to [x town], and that's why you came to law school here, and you're loving it and want to stay.

The people who have a real problem (with me) are the ones who have never lived here.

Piggybacking on the above question, how could you be convinced that someone who hasn't lived in California really wants to be there? I grew up in the midwest, and neither my undergrad nor my law school are in CA. I've visited a couple times and have been itching to move to CA for upwards of a decade.

Would selling desire for a particular firm ("I'm geographically flexible, but MTO gives me such a raging hardon, et c") be a good approach? Or should I invent a fiancee/uncle/dog who's from CA and wants to return there/who I visited as a kid? Top 5% at CCN - does this help overcome lack of ties?

[bulinus]

Cover letters - aside from being free of fuckups and nominally coherent, do you ever care?

Have never seen one.

I knew it.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

If someone lived in this area for at least a few years - whether they grew up here, went to undergrad here, went to law school here - I'll believe them when they say they want to live here. It's a pretty believable story that you always wanted to move to [x town], and that's why you came to law school here, and you're loving it and want to stay.

The people who have a real problem (with me) are the ones who have never lived here.

Piggybacking on the above question, how could you be convinced that someone who hasn't lived in California really wants to be there? I grew up in the midwest, and neither my undergrad nor my law school are in CA. I've visited a couple times and have been itching to move to CA for upwards of a decade.

Would selling desire for a particular firm ("I'm geographically flexible, but MTO gives me such a raging hardon, et c") be a good approach? Or should I invent a fiancee/uncle/dog who's from CA and wants to return there/who I visited as a kid? Top 5% at CCN - does this help overcome lack of ties?

Not OP, but just invent the fiance bro. I know a girl that was from Cali, never been to Philly, pretty obvious that she had never even been to Pennsylvania, but invented a fiance and got an offer without great grades from a T14. She got the offer to a firm that probably cares more about ties than you Gibson Dunns of the world. Lying is the way to go.

[20160810]

What could possibly go wrong?

[AnonAssociate]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

If someone lived in this area for at least a few years - whether they grew up here, went to undergrad here, went to law school here - I'll believe them when they say they want to live here. It's a pretty believable story that you always wanted to move to [x town], and that's why you came to law school here, and you're loving it and want to stay.

The people who have a real problem (with me) are the ones who have never lived here.

Piggybacking on the above question, how could you be convinced that someone who hasn't lived in California really wants to be there? I grew up in the midwest, and neither my undergrad nor my law school are in CA. I've visited a couple times and have been itching to move to CA for upwards of a decade.

Would selling desire for a particular firm ("I'm geographically flexible, but MTO gives me such a raging hardon, et c") be a good approach? Or should I invent a fiancee/uncle/dog who's from CA and wants to return there/who I visited as a kid? Top 5% at CCN - does this help overcome lack of ties?

The reason we care about ties is that we don't want to train you for two years and then have you move back to New York or Little Rock or whatever. It's harder to make the case that you seriously want to move (and stay) here if you have never lived here, but it's definitely not impossible. Your school/ranking is irrelevant. Saying you really want to work at this firm (not the specific office) does not convince me you want to live in the city. Just tell a story about why you want to live here and how you haven't gotten to live here yet and how you're looking forward to putting down roots. If you're ONLY applying in this city, mention that, it helps.

Having said all this, it's not that big of a deal. An interviewee's ties only become a factor if I get the strong feeling that they may not stick around very long. It's a non-factor for most people. Just something to quickly explain during the interview.

I think the "make up a fiancée" suggestion is terrible advice for so many reasons. Remember that your award for doing well in the interview is getting to work with your interviewers for years. We will become your friends. Do not make up a fiancée. It makes you a shitty person and will probably come up eventually (I've seen this happen, it was awkward.)

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

If someone lived in this area for at least a few years - whether they grew up here, went to undergrad here, went to law school here - I'll believe them when they say they want to live here. It's a pretty believable story that you always wanted to move to [x town], and that's why you came to law school here, and you're loving it and want to stay.

The people who have a real problem (with me) are the ones who have never lived here.

Piggybacking on the above question, how could you be convinced that someone who hasn't lived in California really wants to be there? I grew up in the midwest, and neither my undergrad nor my law school are in CA. I've visited a couple times and have been itching to move to CA for upwards of a decade.

Would selling desire for a particular firm ("I'm geographically flexible, but MTO gives me such a raging hardon, et c") be a good approach? Or should I invent a fiancee/uncle/dog who's from CA and wants to return there/who I visited as a kid? Top 5% at CCN - does this help overcome lack of ties?

The reason we care about ties is that we don't want to train you for two years and then have you move back to New York or Little Rock or whatever. It's harder to make the case that you seriously want to move (and stay) here if you have never lived here, but it's definitely not impossible. Your school/ranking is irrelevant. Saying you really want to work at this firm (not the specific office) does not convince me you want to live in the city. Just tell a story about why you want to live here and how you haven't gotten to live here yet and how you're looking forward to putting down roots. If you're ONLY applying in this city, mention that, it helps.

Having said all this, it's not that big of a deal. An interviewee's ties only become a factor if I get the strong feeling that they may not stick around very long. It's a non-factor for most people. Just something to quickly explain during the interview.

I think the "make up a fiancée" suggestion is terrible advice for so many reasons. Remember that your award for doing well in the interview is getting to work with your interviewers for years. We will become your friends. Do not make up a fiancée. It makes you a shitty person and will probably come up eventually (I've seen this happen, it was awkward.)

Thank you for taking questions. I had two, one of which relates to the ties you talk about.

1) Is a genuine interest in wanting to work with startups / VCs in SV enough to convince an interviewer? I worked for a VC-funded startup in NYC pre-law school and even pitched some major investors in the area, and would love to interview for some of the tech-oriented firms out there but coming from an NYC school I feel like it's an uphill battle.

2) Since you're at a major firm, I was wondering on if you could comment generally on the quality of work that comes through yours and others' desks. Particularly, a lot of people poke fun at corporate attorneys saying that they are glorified comma jockeys. Do you find this is the case, or do you and your peers get work that truly intellectually stimulates you on a regular basis?