Former V100 Partner Searching for Work on Craigslist Forum

[sundance95]

Some relevant links:

http://www.lawguru.com/answers/atty_pro ... e/petersen

http://www.floridabar.org/DIVADM/ME/MPD ... 0Reprimand

tl;dr: dude was charged with five counts, including attempted murder & criminal stalking, and ended up pleading out to three misdemeanors. I'm not disputing the points that have been made ITT regarding structural changes in the legal profession, but it seems like there are other equally likely causal inferences to be made here, other than the standard "Welcome to the new normal!"

PS: the ability to search the internet with images is crazy

[smallfirmassociate]

I don't see much wrong with it. Sure, the picture is a little tacky, but do you expect the guy to NOT list his credentials? To not seek work? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Craigslist isn't the only avenue he is using to drum up work, but why fault the guy for trying?

If you don't have a job, you're supposed to "hustle" and mass mail and cold call and network and blah blah blah. Then if you do that, you should be made fun of?

I get there are questions about how he got to this point in the first place, but for all we know he is wealthy, healthy, and doing just fine but wants to find a little work that doesn't involve taking a full-time position at BigSweatshop or ShitLaw LLC. Or maybe he's in the dumps and is desperate, considering suicide and trying to pay child support so his family doesn't consider him a total loser. In either case, I see no need to judge him over this ad and find the whole ATL article to be petty ("omg he has a tan -- and there are palm trees lololol"). It's like, fuck, who is the immature one here?

I'm not judging the guy. I just want law students to think a little about the whole "hustle and mass mail and cold call and network" thing. It's not something you do just when you're trying to get that first job out of school. You get to a firm and from day 1 you're hustling to either make partner, or find a solid exit option. Then you have to keep hustling to stay partner, or to stay in-house through upheavals in the BoD, etc. And apparently you've got to do it even after two decades at a V100. You're signing up for a career of hustling, because you're signing up for a profession where supply far outstrips demand.

Now, there's nothing wrong with having to hustle. I just think a lot of law students want security and don't appreciate what they're really signing up for. They see older lawyers with a really secure in-house job, or who are partners at a firm with a business that just keeps coming in, and assume that one day they'll get to stop hustling.

Despite my criticism of ATL's "article," I totally agree with you. Of course, the hustle is one of my favorite parts of practicing law. Makes things interesting.

[Cobretti]

This guy wasn't a partner, he was a "shareholder"

[rayiner]

Some relevant links:

http://www.lawguru.com/answers/atty_pro ... e/petersen

http://www.floridabar.org/DIVADM/ME/MPD ... 0Reprimand

tl;dr: dude was charged with five counts, including attempted murder & criminal stalking, and ended up pleading out to three misdemeanors. I'm not disputing the points that have been made ITT regarding structural changes in the legal profession, but it seems like there are other equally likely causal inferences to be made here, other than the standard "Welcome to the new normal!"

PS: the ability to search the internet with images is crazy

He received a public reprimand, not a suspension, and it's not clear the disciplinary proceedings had any impact. He's Linked-In is online. The disciplinary proceedings happened in 2010. He left GT in 1993 and taught at Nova/solo-ed until 2012.

[09042014]

This guy wasn't a partner, he was a "shareholder"

That's GT's name for partner.

[sundance95]

He received a public reprimand, not a suspension, and it's not clear the disciplinary proceedings had any impact. He's Linked-In is online. The disciplinary proceedings happened in 2010. He left GT in 1993 and taught at Nova/solo-ed until 2012.

Totally agreed; but those issues are indicative of personal problems that are as capable of ruining a career as structural changes to the economy. I'm not saying it was 'his fault'; I'm just saying that we know far too little to generalize from the limited information we have. About all we can safely conclude is that the last two decades of this guy's career have been quite sad.

Didn't Nova just recently cut faculty? That might have precipitated this posting as much as anything.

[sighsigh]

You're signing up for a career of hustling, because you're signing up for a profession where supply far outstrips demand.

There's one thing I don't understand - supply can't outstrip demand in every seniority level of the profession. The bottleneck has to begin somewhere.

Unless this is a profession where as you rise in seniority the number of available positions doesn't remain constant, but solidly decreases. Which means the bottleneck is continually being applied again and again.

[Danger Zone]

This guy wasn't a partner, he was a "shareholder"

Is this a serious post

You know only lawyers can be shareholders in a firm right? And partners, for lack of a better phrase, hold shares in the firm, right?

[feralinfant]

This guy wasn't a partner, he was a "shareholder"

Is this a serious post

You know only lawyers can be shareholders in a firm right? And partners, for lack of a better phrase, hold shares in the firm, right?

It wasn't a serious post but there are some differences with gt's structure. That being said this post was a joke at how that structure is kind of dumb.

[moonman157]

People ITT are so quick to say that this guy fucked up somewhere, but here's the thing: odds are you won't graduate #1 at your law school, odds are you won't make partner at a V100, odds are you won't head up a department at said V100. What makes you think you're more likely to avoid having to beg for work on Craigslist than someone who did all these things?

But there's a reason why a V100 partner turning to Craigslist looking for work is news. Because it basically never happens. Saying "If a guy who finishes #1 in his class and makes partner can't make it, what makes you think you'll be different" is no different than saying "If this guy can have a mediocre performance at a mediocre law school and still be fine, because you're no different." Obviously the legal market sucks as a whole, but we get this from big picture data, not the fact that one partner (who clearly has some sort of issues) had his career fucked up somewhere along the way. Law students shouldn't assume they will work as a partner at a law firm, but Partners At Law firms shouldn't assume that they'll have to look to Craigslist for work. TLS loves to trash anecdotes, until they spell doom and gloom, and then all of a sudden they're a perfect representation of what happens in the legal industry.

[Cogburn87]

lol @ this shit tier profession

[XxSpyKEx]

Some relevant links:

http://www.lawguru.com/answers/atty_pro ... e/petersen

http://www.floridabar.org/DIVADM/ME/MPD ... 0Reprimand

tl;dr: dude was charged with five counts, including attempted murder & criminal stalking, and ended up pleading out to three misdemeanors. I'm not disputing the points that have been made ITT regarding structural changes in the legal profession, but it seems like there are other equally likely causal inferences to be made here, other than the standard "Welcome to the new normal!"

PS: the ability to search the internet with images is crazy

People ITT are so quick to say that this guy fucked up somewhere, but here's the thing: odds are you won't graduate #1 at your law school, odds are you won't make partner at a V100, odds are you won't head up a department at said V100. What makes you think you're more likely to avoid having to beg for work on Craigslist than someone who did all these things?

Remember Andrew Klein from Entourage? This guy's life kind of a lot like Andrew Klein. Basically sounds like he went through a very difficult divorce/break-up period that ruined his career and life. All of his charges were related to his ex-wife/partner. Clearly, he's had some hard times and other problems (including mental problems, and likely drug/alcohol addiction problems) for quite some time before winding up unemployed and seeking work on Craigslist. I don't think the fact that this guy is unemployed is any way indicative of what the legal economy looks like or what happens if you don't hustle. It's completely possible that he left GT because he wanted a different lifestyle and already had enough money after spending 18 years of his life there (which wouldn't be crazy given his relationship with his spouse, who he later tried to kill lol). We really don't have enough information about this guy to make broad generalizations about the legal market/economy based on his lack of employment. Based on the information we have, I strongly suspect that his current lack of employment is unrelated to the economy.

[FSK]

lol @ this shit tier profession

Indeed.

[jchiles]

Remember Andrew Klein from Entourage? This guy's life kind of a lot like Andrew Klein. Basically sounds like he went through a very difficult divorce/break-up period that ruined his career and life. All of his charges were related to his ex-wife/partner. Clearly, he's had some hard times and other problems (including mental problems, and likely drug/alcohol addiction problems) for quite some time before winding up unemployed and seeking work on Craigslist. I don't think the fact that this guy is unemployed is any way indicative of what the legal economy looks like or what happens if you don't hustle. It's completely possible that he left GT because he wanted a different lifestyle and already had enough money after spending 18 years of his life there (which wouldn't be crazy given his relationship with his spouse, who he later tried to kill lol). We really don't have enough information about this guy to make broad generalizations about the legal market/economy based on his lack of employment. Based on the information we have, I strongly suspect that his current lack of employment is unrelated to the economy.

To be fair Ari kind of screwed up Andrew's business once Andrew quit or went on leave to go to rehab or whatever.

[rayiner]

You're signing up for a career of hustling, because you're signing up for a profession where supply far outstrips demand.

There's one thing I don't understand - supply can't outstrip demand in every seniority level of the profession. The bottleneck has to begin somewhere.

Unless this is a profession where as you rise in seniority the number of available positions doesn't remain constant, but solidly decreases. Which means the bottleneck is continually being applied again and again.

Of course this is true. The need for senior associates is less than the need for juniors and mid-levels. The need for junior partners is less than the need for senior associates. The need for senior equity partners who focus mainly on bringing in business is less than the need for junior non-share partners that do billable work. Nobody wants to hire someone from the category above to do the work for the category below ("overqualified").

[shredderrrrrr]

I like how you're linking this article as if you're teaching and enlightening the masses when really this is no different than Daily Enquirer trash.

It's a frightening and extreme anecdote. That is all. My buddy just finished below median at a TTT and got a job offer this week at a midwest firm with starting pay at $120K. What does that teach us?

[84651846190]

I like how you're linking this article as if you're teaching and enlightening the masses when really this is no different than Daily Enquirer trash.

It's a frightening and extreme anecdote. That is all. My buddy just finished below median at a TTT and got a job offer this week at a midwest firm with starting pay at $120K. What does that teach us?

The whole point of this thread is to convey the fact that nothing is a sure thing. A lot of law students see things in black and white. E.g., "if I'm in the top __% of my class, I'll definitely get a job and have a great career!" Threads like this are to remind people that weird shit happens and you can end up on the street, particularly in this profession.

[FSK]

I like how you're linking this article as if you're teaching and enlightening the masses when really this is no different than Daily Enquirer trash.

It's a frightening and extreme anecdote. That is all. My buddy just finished below median at a TTT and got a job offer this week at a midwest firm with starting pay at $120K. What does that teach us?

At every point on the bell curve there's a unicorn.

[dowu]

UF might be a TTT50, but he was #1. Also, someone who makes partner at a V100 probably has better life skills than your average law student. What are you doing to do after big law dumps you?

I'd imagine strippers and crack cocaine would be your next option.

[wingding]

I just don't know how someone makes partner at a V100 without establishing the kind of connections/network that would at least land him a pity job

[smallfirmassociate]

I just don't know how someone makes partner at a V100 without establishing the kind of connections/network that would at least land him a pity job

That's the wrong question to ask, though. The question is what can a person do after making partner that would destroy his personal and professional lives.

Whatever it is, it's probably not something worth making fun of or extrapolating form.

[sundance95]

I just don't know how someone makes partner at a V100 without establishing the kind of connections/network that would at least land him a pity job

That's the wrong question to ask, though. The question is what can a person do after making partner that would destroy his personal and professional lives.

Whatever it is, it's probably not something worth making fun of or extrapolating form.

180

[XxSpyKEx]

I just don't know how someone makes partner at a V100 without establishing the kind of connections/network that would at least land him a pity job

That's the wrong question to ask, though. The question is what can a person do after making partner that would destroy his personal and professional lives.

We already know the answer to that question: attempt to murder your ex-wife/partner after criminally stalking her, damaging her car, and committing various other offenses against her. Also, a serious drug addiction would help.

[Danger Zone]

I too enjoy hyperbole when making a somewhat valid point

[TheSpanishMain]

I just don't know how someone makes partner at a V100 without establishing the kind of connections/network that would at least land him a pity job

That's the wrong question to ask, though. The question is what can a person do after making partner that would destroy his personal and professional lives.

We already know the answer to that question: attempt to murder your ex-wife/partner after criminally stalking her, damaging her car, and committing various other offenses against her. Also, a serious drug addiction would help.

It seems pretty unlikely that someone could be this much of a mess in his private life and still be chugging along just fine at work. I think we can assume he played a (large) role in his own downfall and not just go "lol see what awaits big law partners in the new normal."