O-C-LIE: If aren't lying you don't want it hard enough Forum

[Anonymous User]

if female, alternative is to find a casual bf in city where you want to work and get them to back you up. make sure the guy has at least some job inmobility

No, female moving for fiance = gonna make babies

Male moving for fiance = clean cut family man

great sexism, though maybe only true for you/your firm

several 2L girls last year managed this for hard to reach markets they have no ties to, (though 1 used the "husband" card and another "her girlfriend")

[09042014]

if female, alternative is to find a casual bf in city where you want to work and get them to back you up. make sure the guy has at least some job inmobility

No, female moving for fiance = gonna make babies

Male moving for fiance = clean cut family man

great sexism, though maybe only true for you/your firm

several 2L girls last year managed this for hard to reach markets they have no ties to, (though 1 used the "husband" card and another "her girlfriend")

I don't care but that's the view.

[Anonymous User]

I don't care but that's the view.

I don't care know but that's the my view.

FIFY

plenty of 2L ladies are capable of working and having kids, but you're welcome to tell the female partners at your firm otherwise

[A. Nony Mouse]

For god's sake distinguish between someone reporting an attitude they've observed and endorsing that attitude. DF is absolutely correct that there are still a shitload of law firm partners who are going to see a man moving to a city for his fiancée as an upstanding family man, and a woman who does so for her fiancé as in danger of fleeing to the pleasures of motherhood at the first opportunity. Just because that belief isn't universal doesn't mean it's not out there and it's something you want to consider when you're figuring out how to massage your minimal ties into something greater. Denying such an attitude exists doesn't make it go away.

[09042014]

I don't care but that's the view.

I don't care know but that's the my view.

FIFY

plenty of 2L ladies are capable of working and having kids, but you're welcome to tell the female partners at your firm otherwise

I'm sure the female partners know sexual discrimination happens, more acutely than I am.

Mods should out this retards abuse of anon.

[09042014]

I don't care but that's the view.

I don't care know but that's the my view.

FIFY

plenty of 2L ladies are capable of working and having kids, but you're welcome to tell the female partners at your firm otherwise

I'm sure the female partners know sexual discrimination happens, more acutely than I am.

Mods should out this retards abuse of anon.

Also, you'd be shocked what some men say when there aren't any women around. Shocked. And no, they aren't using talking points of 2L recruiting flyers.

[iliketurtles123]

I don't care but that's the view.

I don't care know but that's the my view.

FIFY

plenty of 2L ladies are capable of working and having kids, but you're welcome to tell the female partners at your firm otherwise

Lol.
I think you're missing the whole point.

[gk101]

Overheard at Lawyers Have Heart 5k race in DC: "You'll have a better chance at becoming a partner if you wore dresses more often"

This profession is the best

[Tanicius]

Overheard at Lawyers Have Heart 5k race in DC: "You'll have a better chance at becoming a partner if you wore dresses more often"

This profession is the best

The Catch-22 discrimination case by SCOTUS is one of my favorites.

[Anonymous User]

The imaginary girlfriend in medical school in LA got me quite a few callbacks there

If your only tie to a region is an imaginary fiance wouldn't the firm google him/her? I'm sure this has been used before. Everyone under 40 has facebook.

What about caring for a dying aunt that lives in the city. She helped raise you and was like a 2nd mom. You visit her often, and you want to make her last years as enjoyable as possible.

[DELG]

Pretending discrimination doesn't exist doesn't make it not exist.

[09042014]

The imaginary girlfriend in medical school in LA got me quite a few callbacks there

If your only tie to a region is an imaginary fiance wouldn't the firm google him/her? I'm sure this has been used before. Everyone under 40 has facebook.

What about caring for a dying aunt that lives in the city. She helped raise you and was like a 2nd mom. You visit her often, and you want to make her last years as enjoyable as possible.

Nobody is going to ask their name. Nobody is going to assume you have a fake fiance.

[Anonymous User]

I know this thread is tongue-in-cheek, but on behalf of those of us who actually do have sick or dying relatives, it'd be nice if you guys stop treating such a reason as some sort of fictional joke

it's not only hurtful to people who are living through such circumstances, but it also serves to place doubt in the minds of recruiters/associates who may read this thread and later speak to or interview said people

not to say that nobody lies about this stuff, but shame on them and let karma or what have you get them in the end. no need to cast doubt on those with legitimate reasons for wanting to be somewhere

[NYSprague]

I know this thread is tongue-in-cheek, but on behalf of those of us who actually do have sick or dying relatives, it'd be nice if you guys stop treating such a reason as some sort of fictional joke

it's not only hurtful to people who are living through such circumstances, but it also serves to place doubt in the minds of recruiters/associates who may read this thread and later speak to or interview said people

not to say that nobody lies about this stuff, but shame on them and let karma or what have you get them in the end. no need to cast doubt on those with legitimate reasons for wanting to be somewhere

Eh, if someone told me a story about a seriously ill relative that needed care, I would probably not be encouraged to hire them. They are going to be needing time off and what if the relative has an emergency or in the middle of a deal. (I know that sounds heartless, but your dying relative means I have to have a backup plan in place, at least in my head, for managing your work.) Because I don't need to knowingly hire someone with time issues and emotional stress and distractions.

I realize some people aren't impressed with my interview advice. But I suggest another route. Just have happy and healthy relatives.

Here's the thing. I'm a very nice person. Outside of my need for you to help get my work done or get out of my way, I will care about your life and your issues. But my need to get the work done on the client's deadline,is the most important need and when you are getting paid a lot, I expect you to be available to deliver.

If you want to make up relatives, have them be healthy and happy. You won't need to explain much about them, because the interview should focus on you.

If you do have sick relatives, don't use them as a reason a demanding law firm should hire you. Mention the relatives. Just don't mention the illness, it is none of the firm's business. After you're hired, you can deal with arranging what you need. Just be professional about it and it will be fine. Just don't expect constant leeway from your job (and I'm not saying you implied you expected it, more of a heads up.)

[Anonymous User]

For women, is it better to leave the engagement ring off then? I have no qualms saying my fiance is from whatever city I'm interviewing for, but I could just as easily take it off and say nothing.

I did a board search and results were mixed.

[Tanicius]

For women, is it better to leave the engagement ring off then? I have no qualms saying my fiance is from whatever city I'm interviewing for, but I could just as easily take it off and say nothing.

I did a board search and results were mixed.

It's an impossible choice. Some guys are going to hold it against you because in the back of their heads they fantasize about dating you and don't like that you're already hitched. Most won't care either way, and some will think it's a positive factor that shows ties and/or mental stability. There's simply no way to calculate how it will affect anything. I say you keep it on, because do you really want to live the rest of your life pretending you're not getting/are married just because some crazy assholes will hold it against you?

[A. Nony Mouse]

For women, is it better to leave the engagement ring off then? I have no qualms saying my fiance is from whatever city I'm interviewing for, but I could just as easily take it off and say nothing.

I did a board search and results were mixed.

It's an impossible choice. Some guys are going to hold it against you because in the back of their heads they fantasize about dating you and don't like that you're already hitched. Most won't care either way, and some will think it's a positive factor that shows ties and/or mental stability. There's simply no way to calculate how it will affect anything. I say you keep it on, because do you really want to live the rest of your life pretending you're not getting/are married just because some crazy assholes will hold it against you?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I don't know about the "fantasize about dating you" part so much as that they may think you want to start a family right away. But some will see it as a good thing that you're less likely to be out partying looking for a guy? I mean, reasonable people won't really notice/care one way or another, and I do have a hard time living my life to avoid idiots' prejudices. I don't know anyone who felt the need to take off their rings, and they did fine. But other people may feel more strongly one way or another.

[DELG]

There's not really any good way to do a hiring process as a woman. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

[Anonymous User]

For women, is it better to leave the engagement ring off then? I have no qualms saying my fiance is from whatever city I'm interviewing for, but I could just as easily take it off and say nothing.

I did a board search and results were mixed.

It's an impossible choice. Some guys are going to hold it against you because in the back of their heads they fantasize about dating you and don't like that you're already hitched. Most won't care either way, and some will think it's a positive factor that shows ties and/or mental stability. There's simply no way to calculate how it will affect anything. I say you keep it on, because do you really want to live the rest of your life pretending you're not getting/are married just because some crazy assholes will hold it against you?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I don't know about the "fantasize about dating you" part so much as that they may think you want to start a family right away. But some will see it as a good thing that you're less likely to be out partying looking for a guy? I mean, reasonable people won't really notice/care one way or another, and I do have a hard time living my life to avoid idiots' prejudices. I don't know anyone who felt the need to take off their rings, and they did fine. But other people may feel more strongly one way or another.

I was going to wear to wear it during a SA, if I get one. I just was thinking that I don't want the hiring people to be thinking about my personal life/gauging whether I might have kids soon, but I guess they will be making those kinds of judgments anyway.

[Tanicius]

Another positive aspect I think it inherently tells an employer is that you're *probably* older. Honestly, when I bumped into people in law school who were engaged, I automatically assumed they were mature people who probably had work experience until proven otherwise.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I can see why someone might take it off, honestly. I certainly don't judge anyone who wants to. People can make stupid judgments even based on the ring. Hell, not law, but my husband's former boss, when they were hiring someone in a sort of sales/development position, said of one candidate's engagement ring, "if she can land a rock like that, we know she can close a deal!" Which, ugh.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a bit late to the sexism discussion, but I have a related anecdote. I asked one of my clerkship advisors whether I should mention to judges that I have a baby. The advisor thought for a second, and said, "Yes, since you're male. They'll love that. If you were a female, judges might think you were wanting to clerk so you could work less. I hate saying this, but it's the way things work."

[09042014]

I doubt the ring matters. But saying you are moving around for a husband seems weak and mommy-trackish.