Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to be annoying I'm new to this... V5 = Vault 100 top 5 firms (cravath, skadden, etc)?

yes

[Anonymous User]

Rising 2L here! Let's do this.

3.483 -- am I screwed for firms that have a 3.5 cut off?

If you're a good interviewer, no. I know someone with a similar GPA last year who got multiple V5s.

That GPA was closer to the top quarter last year. Its probably top 33-40% right now. You can't compare things that way.

[Anonymous User]

3.8+ focused mainly on NYC; any advice on the more "selective" firms GPA-wise one would have to bid high to ensure an interview? I currently have Paul Weiss 4th/ Gibson Dunn 2nd etc... and wonder if I am being too paranoid.

[Anonymous User]

3.8+ focused mainly on NYC; any advice on the more "selective" firms GPA-wise one would have to bid high to ensure an interview? I currently have Paul Weiss 4th/ Gibson Dunn 2nd etc... and wonder if I am being too paranoid.

ummm If I were you I would include in the first 5 spots of your list a v5-10 you really like and include in the other 4 v10-30s which have much lower medians.. reason is the majority of people don't place v10 that highs so they are easier to get even if you place them low.. so play it safe?

[Anonymous User]

3.5 focused on NYC. No ties, but have solid WE in finance and should be OK at interviews

Looking for some thoughts on the firms at the top of my bid list. Particularly, answers to these few questions. Are any of them more or less willing than usual to take someone with no ties to the city? Any anecdotal evidence that any of them are getting more or less selective? Anything else I won't be able to glean from online research?

Allen & Overy
Paul Hastings
Sidley Austin
White & Case
Weil
Latham

[Anonymous User]

3.5 focused on NYC. No ties, but have solid WE in finance and should be OK at interviews

Looking for some thoughts on the firms at the top of my bid list. Particularly, answers to these few questions. Are any of them more or less willing than usual to take someone with no ties to the city? Any anecdotal evidence that any of them are getting more or less selective? Anything else I won't be able to glean from online research?

Allen & Overy
Paul Hastings
Sidley Austin
White & Case
Weil
Latham

Is there a reason you want those firms? Latham and Sidley are really the only ones that I think your numbers are a wash for. Weil, White & Case and A&O are pretty safe. Paul Hastings is its own beast and seems to care a lot more about personality.

[Anonymous User]

3.5 focused on NYC. No ties, but have solid WE in finance and should be OK at interviews

Looking for some thoughts on the firms at the top of my bid list. Particularly, answers to these few questions. Are any of them more or less willing than usual to take someone with no ties to the city? Any anecdotal evidence that any of them are getting more or less selective? Anything else I won't be able to glean from online research?

Allen & Overy
Paul Hastings
Sidley Austin
White & Case
Weil
Latham

Is there a reason you want those firms? Latham and Sidley are really the only ones that I think your numbers are a wash for. Weil, White & Case and A&O are pretty safe. Paul Hastings is its own beast and seems to care a lot more about personality.

Weil fired a bunch of people last year and took a much smaller class this summer. They are decreasing their class size again according to NalpDirectory so that may be somethign to be weary about.

[Anonymous User]

3.5 focused on NYC. No ties, but have solid WE in finance and should be OK at interviews

Looking for some thoughts on the firms at the top of my bid list. Particularly, answers to these few questions. Are any of them more or less willing than usual to take someone with no ties to the city? Any anecdotal evidence that any of them are getting more or less selective? Anything else I won't be able to glean from online research?

Allen & Overy
Paul Hastings
Sidley Austin
White & Case
Weil
Latham

Is there a reason you want those firms? Latham and Sidley are really the only ones that I think your numbers are a wash for. Weil, White & Case and A&O are pretty safe. Paul Hastings is its own beast and seems to care a lot more about personality.

Weil fired a bunch of people last year and took a much smaller class this summer. They are decreasing their class size again according to NalpDirectory so that may be somethign to be weary about.

The NALP "expected 2014" number is what the class size was/is THIS summer, not what they expect to bring in for 2015. So unless you have other data, there is nothing to say the class won't be the same size or bigger. Also, "much smaller class" still meant 6 people from Mich, which is the most any single office of a firm took, and likely lots more offers. Also, one might argue that since Weil got layoffs over with, they're actually a better place to be right now. Other firms are going to the do the same eventually we just don't know which ones they are.

[Anonymous User]

3.5 with a secondary market Midwestern resume. I know I am going to bid my secondary, and at least one of NY or Chi. Is it wise to split some bids between NYC and Chi or should I just go all out on NYC?

[Anonymous User]

Rising 2L here! Let's do this.

Also does H in legal practice mean anything at all for OCI? On a related note, does anyone know what honors GPA bump is for law review?

I am also wondering about this... need all the help I can get.

[Anonymous User]

You'll see this everywhere on TLS, but I can't emphasize it enough. You all need to mail. If you are below median, especially K-JD, you are likely going to struggle hard at OCI. I was below median last year, got one CB from OCI. Mailed extensively beginning of August and got 5 CB's in secondary markets. This certainly isn't typical, but I am proof that mailing can work. Do not wait until after you strike out. Mail any market where you have any kind of ties, and if you don't have any ties then find some.

[Anonymous User]

Can any former 2Ls speak to how highly you generally had to bid the following firms to get an interview in previous years? I realize there is no clear answer, but anecdotal info would certainly be helpful.

K&E Chicago
Mayer Brown Chicago
Jenner & Block Chicago

K&L Gates DC
Akin Gump DC
Crowell & Moring DC
Gibson Dunn DC
hogan lovells DC

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Just shy of a 3.9. Trying to decide between NYC, DC, and Chicago. I've got same question as above.

But also, on the gpa historical data, It looks like a lot of the less prestigious firms don't make offers to high GPA students. Does anyone know whether they just assume they're not getting people towards the top of the class or are those students not interviewing with those firms. Basically, I'm asking if it's possible to have safety firms, or are they going to assume you're not joining them and not give you a cb unless you have a real compelling reason?

-MichY88

[Anonymous User]

3.5 focused on NYC. No ties, but have solid WE in finance and should be OK at interviews

Looking for some thoughts on the firms at the top of my bid list. Particularly, answers to these few questions. Are any of them more or less willing than usual to take someone with no ties to the city? Any anecdotal evidence that any of them are getting more or less selective? Anything else I won't be able to glean from online research?

Allen & Overy
Paul Hastings
Sidley Austin
White & Case
Weil
Latham

Is there a reason you want those firms? Latham and Sidley are really the only ones that I think your numbers are a wash for. Weil, White & Case and A&O are pretty safe. Paul Hastings is its own beast and seems to care a lot more about personality.

Weil fired a bunch of people last year and took a much smaller class this summer. They are decreasing their class size again according to NalpDirectory so that may be somethign to be weary about.

The NALP "expected 2014" number is what the class size was/is THIS summer, not what they expect to bring in for 2015. So unless you have other data, there is nothing to say the class won't be the same size or bigger. Also, "much smaller class" still meant 6 people from Mich, which is the most any single office of a firm took, and likely lots more offers. Also, one might argue that since Weil got layoffs over with, they're actually a better place to be right now. Other firms are going to the do the same eventually we just don't know which ones they are.

You're right about almost everything except for the last argument. While for a lot of places (see Winston) that argument actually makes some sense, Weil's layoffs occurred later than every other firm because they shifted so many of their associates in 2009 and 2010 to bankruptcy. Their biggest client at the time was Lehman and obviously that bankruptcy took a lot of time and man horus. When the Lehman work ended, Weil laid a lot of people off. A lot of those people went to a variety of other firms with strong bankruptcy practices. The result for Weil, however, has not been good. Weil is known first and foremost as a bankruptcy firm. Thats their most profitable practice and what they put the most amount of focus into. They also haven't filed a Chapter 11 bankruptcy since 2011. Many of their best bankruptcy partners left for Sidley and Kirkland and things just aren't looking good for Weil in the industry. If they were my only offer, obviously i'd take them, but they woudl not be high on my list, even if i was a bankruptcy person.

Also Mayer took more people from Michigan than Weil did, if i recall correctly. Paul Weiss offered 13-15, Mayer offered 9-13, Cadwalader offered 10-14, Weil offered 9-13, Simpson offered 9-13, and S&C offered 7-11. The numbers are ranges for obvious reasons but pretending like Weil is a Michigan shop like it was in times past is just wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Just shy of a 3.9. Trying to decide between NYC, DC, and Chicago. I've got same question as above.

But also, on the gpa historical data, It looks like a lot of the less prestigious firms don't make offers to high GPA students. Does anyone know whether they just assume they're not getting people towards the top of the class or are those students not interviewing with those firms. Basically, I'm asking if it's possible to have safety firms, or are they going to assume you're not joining them and not give you a cb unless you have a real compelling reason?

-MichY88

I had a 3.9 last year during oci and ended up with 16 callbacks from 17 screeners. After doing 10 of the callbacks I eventually got 4 offers; two from my 1st and 2nd choice firms and then two from firms with slightly lower GPA ranges. Looking at the historical data it actually looks like those two firms didn't report my offers, which makes it misleadingly look like they haven't offered anyone in my GPA range in the last five years. Anyway, based on my experience, as long as you can express some interest in the firm and are not awful in interviews firms of all kinds will be willing to give you a callback. At the callback stage, fit and yield are more important so firms might scrutinize your interest a bit more. I wouldn't say there's such a thing as a "safety firm" though. I found it was easiest to get offers at the firms at the top of my list because that's where I was the best fit.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at the historical data it actually looks like those two firms didn't report my offers, which makes it misleadingly look like they haven't offered anyone in my GPA range in the last five years.

This is actually a really really important point. There are multiple firms that gave me offers that didn't report the offers. Some I had callbacks at that didn't even report the callbacks. While I'm sure the bid:interview ratio stuff on the 2013 OCI data is probably accurate since its compiled by OCP, I wouldn't trust the callback numbers, offer numbers, etc. Those are compiled by firms and often leave things out.

[Anonymous User]

That makes sense. There are some odd data points in the offer GPA stuff, e.g. SRZ has essentially never made an offer to an above median student (only a slight overstatement)

[Anonymous User]

I'll join the "totally fucked" club with my 3.25...I'm stressing over which NYC and Boston firms to bid, especially regarding those for which there is no GPA data. Does anyone have a list or something of firms that are less GPA conscious/selective? Mayer is an infamous member of that category, but I wonder about others because the GPA profiles aren't exhaustive.

[Anonymous User]

Was at or slightly below median last year for OCI. Managed to snag big law. Happy to answer Qs. Good luck

Would you care to share your approach to bidding? As well as more details on your OCI results (number of interviews/callbacks/offers, cities targeted, etc.)?

[Anonymous User]

3.25 seems like it could work in New York, less so in Boston...

Check out the resume collect job listings for firms that aren't coming to OCI. Gotta be a lot of midsize firms that just can't justify the time and travel expense for a couple lawyers to come out to Michigan when they're likely not going to get anyone from Mich.

Not sure how many of these firms are going to be at OCI this year, but in terms of lists:
Kenyon & Kenyon
Hughes Hubbard & Reed
Mayer Brown
Morgan Lewis & Bockius
Nixon Peabody
O'Melveny & Myers
Schulte Roth & Zabel
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan

Some of em may be IP, but whatever.

So those are eight firms where you've got a shot, plus most of the ones without numbers, and I mean, if you can get to 20, then you can have a full plate of interviews where your numbers are competitive

[Anonymous User]

I'll join the "totally fucked" club with my 3.25...I'm stressing over which NYC and Boston firms to bid, especially regarding those for which there is no GPA data. Does anyone have a list or something of firms that are less GPA conscious/selective? Mayer is an infamous member of that category, but I wonder about others because the GPA profiles aren't exhaustive.

Was at or slightly below median last year for OCI. Managed to snag big law. Happy to answer Qs. Good luck

Would you care to share your approach to bidding? As well as more details on your OCI results (number of interviews/callbacks/offers, cities targeted, etc.)?

Had pretty much the same GPA as the above poster (~3.25).

Re: unselective firms in NYC - Mayer, SRZ, Stroock, O'Melveny, Nixon Peabody come to mind. There are more.

Approach to bidding should be shameless. Pretend your GPA is even lower than it is. Play it safe, make sure you have as many of the least selective firms on your list as high up as possible. Bidding sucks for us though because everything were looking at is overbid. But I'm just saying I didn't bid on Nixon because I thought I was safely above them and I regret that.

Also I targeted NYC 100% and got 2 callbacks from 23 OCI interviews and 1 from mass mailing. 1 offer.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

3.25 anon here - I guess most of my confusion stems from the many firms for which there is no GPA data available. The previous poster above suggests "most of the ones that dont have numbers" - but how am I to know whether one of those firms actually has higher standards and thus I'd be totally wasting a bid?

[potted plant]

3.25 anon here - I guess most of my confusion stems from the many firms for which there is no GPA data available. The previous poster above suggests "most of the ones that dont have numbers" - but how am I to know whether one of those firms actually has higher standards and thus I'd be totally wasting a bid?

If you narrow down the list by the market or markets you're targeting, there aren't actually that many firms without GPA data. If there's nothing listed for the office you're interested in, check to see if there is information listed for the other offices. That will give you at least a general benchmark for what the firm is looking for. For example, Pillsbury NY doesn't have GPA info listed, but the GPA median for Pillsbury's DC office is sub 3.25, so probably a safe bet that the NY GPA would be in your range. You can also look up how the firms rank on Vault or Chambers for prestige and selectivity. That won't give you perfect information and you should be a bit wary of putting too much stock in that, but generally the firms at the very top of those lists are going to be more selective GPA-wise. Also, if you have specific questions about particular firms, people may have anecdotal info to offer if you ask.

[Anonymous User]

3.25 anon here - I guess most of my confusion stems from the many firms for which there is no GPA data available. The previous poster above suggests "most of the ones that dont have numbers" - but how am I to know whether one of those firms actually has higher standards and thus I'd be totally wasting a bid?

If there is no GPA data for a firm, it means they've given VERY few offers over the past 6 years and so therefore its a huge gamble to even bid them very high. Stick to firms with big class sizes and a complete data set that you're competitive for. You can always try and pick up interviews in the add/drop or during OCI. I picked up something like 7.

[Druid]

I'll join the "totally fucked" club with my 3.25...I'm stressing over which NYC and Boston firms to bid, especially regarding those for which there is no GPA data. Does anyone have a list or something of firms that are less GPA conscious/selective? Mayer is an infamous member of that category, but I wonder about others because the GPA profiles aren't exhaustive.

Cut Boston firms yesterday.