2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

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Do you have an offer?

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No, I'm mass-mailing.
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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Law review grades are good enough for any firm, and top quarter grades (which is like a 3.9 now or something according to ATL :) ) are good enough for all but a small handful of firms such as W&C and Covington. Plenty of students get offers from Hogan, Latham, etc. without VLR grades. Keep in mind that these firms are super competitive because most of the top students bid on them, so regardless of your grades, you'll have to stand out based on interview performance, experience, etc. Among my VLR friends who ranged from below average to poor interviewers, most did not get offers at the "elite" DC firms and had to settle for NYC or lower-ranked DC firms.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Law review grades are good enough for any firm, and top quarter grades (which is like a 3.9 now or something according to ATL :) ) are good enough for all but a small handful of firms such as W&C and Covington. Plenty of students get offers from Hogan, Latham, etc. without VLR grades. Keep in mind that these firms are super competitive because most of the top students bid on them, so regardless of your grades, you'll have to stand out based on interview performance, experience, etc. Among my VLR friends who ranged from below average to poor interviewers, most did not get offers at the "elite" DC firms and had to settle for NYC or lower-ranked DC firms.
While this is almost true, there are a few firms, DC and non-DC, that the low-to-mid 3.7s aren't going to consistently get. WLRK is obviously out of the question for basically anyone at UVA, and Cravath and W&C come to mind as firms that will likely reject a 3.73 or 3.74, at least two years ago.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by 5ky » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Law review grades are good enough for any firm, and top quarter grades (which is like a 3.9 now or something according to ATL :) ) are good enough for all but a small handful of firms such as W&C and Covington. Plenty of students get offers from Hogan, Latham, etc. without VLR grades. Keep in mind that these firms are super competitive because most of the top students bid on them, so regardless of your grades, you'll have to stand out based on interview performance, experience, etc. Among my VLR friends who ranged from below average to poor interviewers, most did not get offers at the "elite" DC firms and had to settle for NYC or lower-ranked DC firms.
While this is almost true, there are a few firms, DC and non-DC, that the low-to-mid 3.7s aren't going to consistently get. WLRK is obviously out of the question for basically anyone at UVA, and Cravath and W&C come to mind as firms that will likely reject a 3.73 or 3.74, at least two years ago.
Likely to reject, sure, but good enough to bid on them if you really want to.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Law review grades are good enough for any firm, and top quarter grades (which is like a 3.9 now or something according to ATL :) ) are good enough for all but a small handful of firms such as W&C and Covington. Plenty of students get offers from Hogan, Latham, etc. without VLR grades. Keep in mind that these firms are super competitive because most of the top students bid on them, so regardless of your grades, you'll have to stand out based on interview performance, experience, etc. Among my VLR friends who ranged from below average to poor interviewers, most did not get offers at the "elite" DC firms and had to settle for NYC or lower-ranked DC firms.
While this is almost true, there are a few firms, DC and non-DC, that the low-to-mid 3.7s aren't going to consistently get. WLRK is obviously out of the question for basically anyone at UVA, and Cravath and W&C come to mind as firms that will likely reject a 3.73 or 3.74, at least two years ago.
Would a low 3.8 be competitive for W&C? They're by far my top choice.

Eh - I know this is a shitty question. I guess I put myself in as good position I can. I'm going to work my ass off on interviewing over the summer and hope I can charm the panties off some interviewers. Better/more general question - 3.8x good enough to bid DC exclusively?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by UVAIce » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:58 pm

I think many students at UVA over emphasize grades to a point and overlook other strong softs they might have. Things like work experience, a particular undergraduate background, etc., can all help someone who has "good grades" do well at DC firms. As has already been pointed out, many people with non-VLR grades get jobs at great DC and NYC firms.

For example. Don't expect to get in at W&C with lower than a 3.7, but I know folks on the lower end of W&C's grade spectrum that had call backs over folks with a ~3.8.

That and don't expect grades to make you a good interviewer. You really need to practice and develop a compelling story on why you want to work in a particular market or for a particular firm. People bring this up time and time again, but it really can't be said enough. PRACTICE!

One other thing, so many people have their hearts set on particular firms when the reality is that they have no idea about these places. Don't freak out if you don't get firm X when you have shots at firm Y and Z.

Also, anyone interested in a secondary market where they don't have ties is free to PM me. I'm currently in such a position (summering at a firm in a secondary market where I have no ties) and I am happy to give advice on what I felt helped my application.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by 5ky » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Would a low 3.8 be competitive for W&C? They're by far my top choice.
don't be blinded by that preftige though. that's a recipe for making a bad decision.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:58 pm

Alright, I'll get the ball rolling for those of us not able to gun W&C.

I'm rocking a 3.23. Disaster in Fall, above median Spring. I like the southeast -- Atlanta and Tallahassee, particularly. I know I won't be getting DC. Am I in for a massacre otherwise? I plan to mass mail like whoa.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by desertlaw » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:44 am

I am too tired to give tons of advice, but if I had a few pieces of critical things, it would be this...

1 - Have themes. Themes are good. Combine them with stories and you are more good.

2. Start practicing talking to people in cocktail or informational interview type settings. Start practicing your answers. Get used to hearing your voice and making the same elevator story to people about why you came to law school and what you want to do with your life. Start putting yourself in the mindset that OGI will be enjoyable and that you're going to have a fun time getting to meet/talk with some of the brightest people in some of the best firms.

3. Have a general idea of what types of practice interest you and why, but don't say that you're 100% committed to envrionmental underwater tax laws.

Those 3 will get you a long way and there is plenty of other good advice that you'll see on here.

And arrive on grounds very early before your interviews so you can cool off. Don't be running in all sweaty.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by desertlaw » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:Alright, I'll get the ball rolling for those of us not able to gun W&C.

I'm rocking a 3.23. Disaster in Fall, above median Spring. I like the southeast -- Atlanta and Tallahassee, particularly. I know I won't be getting DC. Am I in for a massacre otherwise? I plan to mass mail like whoa.
Good plan. Start mass-mailing so that your applications hit the e-mails of firms on the Tuesday after July 4 weekend. I would also use networking/alumni and any other connections to firms instead of just shotgun approach. Find firms now in your mid-atlantic mid-market city that have UVa alumni or alumni of your college or some other connection. Ask to chat on phone between now and July about firm life, sex life, drug life, etc. Then your "mass mail" to that firm can be given through that person instead of just being a random shotgunning massmailing UVa bro.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by sundance95 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:09 am

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Obviously, grading on to law review at UVA will give you a chance just about anywhere. no guarantees
This. There's no wasted bid with these grades.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:03 am

Any advice on bid-strategy for Boston/Chicago (with NYC as a backup) with a 3.315 (3.15 Fall, 3.5 Spring). I had some personal/family problems in the fall, but I know that's no excuse. I have strong ties to both cities, and plan on mass-mailing and am doing job fairs in both cities. K-JD, but I had good work experience in undergrad and have been told I'm a great interviewer (by firms as well as KD). I would also be considered a minority by firms if that's at all relevant.

Not entirely sure when to mass-mail, since I am guessing I might get a few interviews through the job fairs. Also, not sure what to do for OGI bidding and job-fair bidding. The Chicago job fair bids will be due before OGI bids are due and the Boston bids are due around the same time or just after OGI bids are due. I believe OGI bids are due July 13. I guess I'm looking for a bit of a timeline and strategy: 1) how to bid competitively for job fairs, 2) overlap bids between OGI and job fairs, 3) when to start mass-mailing, 4) focus bids mostly on Boston/Chicago, or also NYC?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?
Law review grades are good enough for any firm, and top quarter grades (which is like a 3.9 now or something according to ATL :) ) are good enough for all but a small handful of firms such as W&C and Covington. Plenty of students get offers from Hogan, Latham, etc. without VLR grades. Keep in mind that these firms are super competitive because most of the top students bid on them, so regardless of your grades, you'll have to stand out based on interview performance, experience, etc. Among my VLR friends who ranged from below average to poor interviewers, most did not get offers at the "elite" DC firms and had to settle for NYC or lower-ranked DC firms.
While this is almost true, there are a few firms, DC and non-DC, that the low-to-mid 3.7s aren't going to consistently get. WLRK is obviously out of the question for basically anyone at UVA, and Cravath and W&C come to mind as firms that will likely reject a 3.73 or 3.74, at least two years ago.
Would a low 3.8 be competitive for W&C? They're by far my top choice.

Eh - I know this is a shitty question. I guess I put myself in as good position I can. I'm going to work my ass off on interviewing over the summer and hope I can charm the panties off some interviewers. Better/more general question - 3.8x good enough to bid DC exclusively?
Second anon poster here.

You can't be "competitive" for W&C with grades alone, because the interviewees will almost all be VLR grade-ons. If you want to work there (and not just because it's considered extremely prestigious/selective/whatever), you should bid them regardless of whether you have a 3.7 or 3.8, and develop a compelling message to get across in your interview.

For your second question, I have mixed thoughts. On the one hand, with your grades the safest firms are probably the NYC firms with enormous class sizes, because with that many summers they aren't going to be as picky as a lower-ranked DC firm hiring 5-10 summers. On the other hand, if you can't get an offer somewhere in DC, I'm not sure that interviewing with NYC firms would be enough to save you. Either way, after you've exhausted the top DC firms in your interview list, use your remaining choices wisely (DC firms with 100+ attorneys that are strong in practice areas that interest you and/or NYC firms such as Skadden, Simpson, etc.).

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:28 am

I've got a 3.38 and really only have strong ties to DC. Any advice on what markets to target? Should I try to bid predominately in NYC?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Law Sauce » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've got a 3.38 and really only have strong ties to DC. Any advice on what markets to target? Should I try to bid predominately in NYC?
I would still try some of the least grade conscious DC/Northern VA firms, especially if you can make a connection before OGI and/or get a interview pre-OGI. I think it would be a bad idea to avoid your home market entirely (though the top DC firms should be avoided). Also, try to figure out what ties you might have to places like Baltimore, Philly, Wilmington DE (want to settle down with family + corporate focus may be enough here), or other smaller markets in VA or Maryland should probably be contacted if you can come up with any reason for wanting to be there.

And yes, you should probably try some NYC firms. But (*this is a point for everyone bidding NYC), it can be really hard to get preselects for NYC firms because most of the class is bidding them at least as backups (so, without having much else to go on, the firms just preselect the top GPAs that bid them). Thus, 3.4-3.5 and down get few of the preselects but may get some lottery and trickle down. But, just because you didn't get a preselect doesn't mean that you should go to their information room and ask for an interview or to drop off a resume, or try to special request them. Do whatever it takes and don't take no for an answer as long as they haven't already interviewed and dinged you.

(Also, as a side note, NYC firms don't seem very receptive to pre-OGI interviewing, probably because they get to interview so many students at OCIs and OGI with much less effort and prefer to work through that pipeline; you likely will have more success pre-OGI in smaller markets).

Also, ties are not something that you either have or do not have. They can be sold, even when minor. I interviewed and got offers in a number of cities that I had minimal ties you. Try to convince them that you want to be there for any logical reason. (Ex, for Wilmington DE as noted above, "I would really love to settle down in a smaller city while being able to work on complex corporate matters (and I have family in the area)" -- for all DE firms but Skadden.) Its harder for places like Philly or Baltimore that don't have something unique that really sticks out about the legal practice or the city, but you can still try to find some family connection or something. These ties are more believable if you mail them and show interest early in the process (pre-OGI); if you actually believe that you want to be there yourself (don't try some place that you are really disingenuous about); and, of course, the better your grades and resume the more likely that they will want to believe you.

Lastly, to all you high GPAs out there, don't assume that your GPA means that your interviewers are impressed with you already. Firms, especially top firms, grades are merely a prerequisite, you still got to earn it by showing excellence in other ways as well. Firms don't have to hire anyone from UVA, so you have not earned anything by being a 3.6+. You just have shot to get in the club. Firms are talking to top student from all the T14 schools, so you need to remember the competition. If you are truly a standout (3.85+), then yes, the firm probably is somewhat impressed already, but still, show excellence and don't let them down.

Whatever it takes. Good luck everyone.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Second anon poster here.

You can't be "competitive" for W&C with grades alone, because the interviewees will almost all be VLR grade-ons. If you want to work there (and not just because it's considered extremely prestigious/selective/whatever), you should bid them regardless of whether you have a 3.7 or 3.8, and develop a compelling message to get across in your interview.
Different anon. For the super selective firms like W&C, does a non-prestigious undergrad basically kill your chances? I have grades that have gotten people W&C offers, but I'm wondering if it's basically hopeless for me due to a lack of an even minimally prestigious undergrad, as well as no prior WE. Thoughts anyone?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:53 pm

Any data/anecdotes re: older students at OGI? I'm turning 30 in the Fall with some non-legal WE - what effect will that have, if any, on the process?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:44 pm

Screwed for D.C. with a 3.49 and strong ties?

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:12 pm

Re the post with the person turning 30: You have nothing to worry about. In fact, I think the older individuals in my class did relatively well in OGI because of their (a) work experience and (b) maturity. Just off the top of my head, the Mormons (not to point out a group of people) and the military veterans among my friends all have jobs. Just highlight your work experience and don't fret. I think it's actually more of an advantage.

3.49 will probably mean "more likely than not" getting a job in DC, but don't expect W&C. I would also bid NYC just for some insurance. You're in good shape, especially if you have a good story to tell and ties to DC.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:03 pm

Elder UVA-ers, guide me.

3.51, want DC. Plan on bidding half NY and half DC, and taking advantage of a career fair in a southern market. Have ties to the south (not in that market).

Seem like a good plan? I really want DC, but should I tread more lightly? It could I even shade more towards DC?

Signed,
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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by UVAIce » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Second anon poster here.

You can't be "competitive" for W&C with grades alone, because the interviewees will almost all be VLR grade-ons. If you want to work there (and not just because it's considered extremely prestigious/selective/whatever), you should bid them regardless of whether you have a 3.7 or 3.8, and develop a compelling message to get across in your interview.
Different anon. For the super selective firms like W&C, does a non-prestigious undergrad basically kill your chances? I have grades that have gotten people W&C offers, but I'm wondering if it's basically hopeless for me due to a lack of an even minimally prestigious undergrad, as well as no prior WE. Thoughts anyone?
I know folks with non-prestigious undergrad backgrounds that summered with W&C.

I would ask yourself why you really need W&C. In the end it's worth a bid, but it's just one firm. If you really want to do litigation in DC then you should be looking at a spread of firms.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Law Sauce » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Elder UVA-ers, guide me.

3.51, want DC. Plan on bidding half NY and half DC, and taking advantage of a career fair in a southern market. Have ties to the south (not in that market).

Seem like a good plan? I really want DC, but should I tread more lightly? It could I even shade more towards DC?

Signed,
DC4ME
I know people who have done well at top DC firms with lower grades, so it can be done, but at the top tier of DC firms, its a long shot. Can't tell you how to split your bids, but you definitely should both 1. go for DC if thats what you really want and 2. have one or more solid backup plans. If have ties to some smaller markets in the south, try to get some pre-OGI interviews there by emailing and asking (with resume and transcript). Pursue everything until you have at least one offer.
Last edited by Law Sauce on Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Law Sauce » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Screwed for D.C. with a 3.49 and strong ties?
Pretty much exactly the same as above. Try for DC, but also have other plans. Reach out to other markets if you can find ties. A few (but just a few) DC firms are probably auto-out though unless you are objectively a great interviewer or have some great things on your resume.

You can see why DC can be tough, lots of people want it. Fortunately at least UVA is strong in DC.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:36 pm

Is there such a thing as over-bidding NY? I really am only interested in winding up in NY or NJ (home state) and since Jersey firms really don't come to OGI, I was planning to basically just throw 50 bids across NYC. Any reason I shouldn't?

3.79 if it matters.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Law Sauce » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there such a thing as over-bidding NY? I really am only interested in winding up in NY or NJ (home state) and since Jersey firms really don't come to OGI, I was planning to basically just throw 50 bids across NYC. Any reason I shouldn't?

3.79 if it matters.
No reason not to if thats where you want to go. With your grades, there are only maybe 20-25 NYC offices that you should really have to interview hard for. Hopefully, if you work hard and don't take anything for granted, you should be able to pick your choice between 2 or 3 of 10 or 15 top firms (firms like Davis Polk, Skadden, Simpson, Latham, Paul Weiss, Ropes, Cleary etc. etc.)

Ive seen people have trouble in that range however if they assume that the grades with get them in. Your grades are awesome, but NYC doesn't auto accept anyone short of top grades at H or Y.
Last edited by Law Sauce on Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:49 pm

If you're trying for DC, is there anything you can do prior to OGI to improve your chances? Almost all of the firms I'm interested in are coming here in August, so I'm not really sure what (if anything) I should be doing to reach out to DC firms during June and July. I was planning on just using this time to reach out to firms in secondary markets instead.

Thanks in advance!

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