Northwestern OCI Forum

[NYSprague]

I'm not an alum, just been here awhile.

I remember last years thread being one of the most useful OCI threads, I would read it and it links to 2012 so check that too.

There was also a great PSA thread on mass mailing from last year, which I think DF or TSL started (? Not sure) and someone should find. I looked but I didn't find it quickly.

[Kikero]

Do you mean DF's "Stop Reading Tea Leaves" thread? It's stickied at the top of the forum.

[NYSprague]

Do you mean DF's "Stop Reading Tea Leaves" thread? It's stickied at the top of the forum.

Yes, that's the one. Read it. Thanks for finding it.


There is a list of good threads on OCI and job search advice , http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=120382
But I recall this one was excellent, don't be put off because it says Harvard.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=214732.

[zugzwanger]

You guys think that cut in C/O 2016 class size is going to make any meaningful impact during OCI?

[Kikero]

You guys think that cut in C/O 2016 class size is going to make any meaningful impact during OCI?

My guess, and this is basically completely out of my ass, is that it might help people slightly above median a little bit. I don't necessarily think firms will dip down deeper into the class, but I think for those who are competitive for spots at Chicago firms, they may find that it's marginally easier to get the job because they have less peers in that slightly above median range.

I don't think it will make much of a difference though, probably even less than curved CLR. I wouldn't go about my planning any differently, but if it gives you a tiny boost, that's just a perk.

[zugzwanger]

You guys think that cut in C/O 2016 class size is going to make any meaningful impact during OCI?

My guess, and this is basically completely out of my ass, is that it might help people slightly above median a little bit. I don't necessarily think firms will dip down deeper into the class, but I think for those who are competitive for spots at Chicago firms, they may find that it's marginally easier to get the job because they have less peers in that slightly above median range.

I don't think it will make much of a difference though, probably even less than curved CLR. I wouldn't go about my planning any differently, but if it gives you a tiny boost, that's just a perk.

I thought it'd be interesting to see (although probably really unrealistic) if they cut the class size by ~10% if that will correspond to roughly 5-10% increase in biglaw placement so maybe instead of placing 50-55% it'll hit closer to 60% of the class

[Kikero]

I don't think it would work like that since they're removing people from both the top and bottom of the curve. If you were graded on the same curve as last year, ie as if each of your classes had 6-7 extra people in them, and then those 6-7 slots were given the Cs/B-s then that might account for a 10% increase, all other things remaining the same. Since that's not what actually happened, I think all you can hope for is a 2-3% increase, max, and potentially no difference at all.

ETA: Actually, it might help transfers more than anyone. If a firm wanted 5 NU students (not that they have quotas like this) does having less NU students to go around make them take people at 3.3 when they previously only took 3.4+ or do they take a transfer with a 3.85 from his/her old school when they previously wanted a 3.87? (My assumption being that there is less variation in transfer grades since they all were presumably well above median at their old schools).

[Cobretti]

I don't think it would work like that since they're removing people from both the top and bottom of the curve. If you were graded on the same curve as last year, ie as if each of your classes had 6-7 extra people in them, and then those 6-7 slots were given the Cs/B-s then that might account for a 10% increase, all other things remaining the same. Since that's not what actually happened, I think all you can hope for is a 2-3% increase, max, and potentially no difference at all.

ya i think the only way we see a noticable difference is if peer schools as a whole cut enough to actually affect supply/demand

[zugzwanger]

Realists...

[Anonymous User]

while I appreciate that this has turned into an all things Northwestern OCI thread, any more advice for the OP and the other poster with similar stats?

[Kikero]

while I appreciate that this has turned into an all things Northwestern OCI thread, any more advice for the OP and the other poster with similar stats?

The advice for OP is the same as the advice for everyone doing OCI whether they have a 2.5 or a 4.3. Take it seriously, practice interviews, be prepared, mass mail, etc. The only differences are what firms and what markets you should bid on. There are some firms that are just not possible from below median, and there are some that are a stretch. For OCI (and any other job fairs) bid smart, but there's no reason you can't still apply to your dream firm or your preferred market though mass mailing or other avenues even if your grades aren't the best.

As for those specific firms that you should be bidding on, don't worry about that until closer to OCI when the list of employers and last year's data is available. Until then, people should be focusing on firm/market/practice area research, practice interviews, getting in shape (not really a joke), and preparing cover letters and mass mailing lists. All of which are pretty much grade independent. I know everyone's pounded into you that 1L grades are all that matters in law school, and they are really important, but for the next month at least, they're sort of irrelevant.

[Anonymous User]

while I appreciate that this has turned into an all things Northwestern OCI thread, any more advice for the OP and the other poster with similar stats?

The advice for OP is the same as the advice for everyone doing OCI whether they have a 2.5 or a 4.3. Take it seriously, practice interviews, be prepared, mass mail, etc. The only differences are what firms and what markets you should bid on. There are some firms that are just not possible from below median, and there are some that are a stretch. For OCI (and any other job fairs) bid smart, but there's no reason you can't still apply to your dream firm or your preferred market though mass mailing or other avenues even if your grades aren't the best.

As for those specific firms that you should be bidding on, don't worry about that until closer to OCI when the list of employers and last year's data is available. Until then, people should be focusing on firm/market/practice area research, practice interviews, getting in shape (not really a joke), and preparing cover letters and mass mailing lists. All of which are pretty much grade independent. I know everyone's pounded into you that 1L grades are all that matters in law school, and they are really important, but for the next month at least, they're sort of irrelevant.

Jumping off of this, I'm a URM with a 3.55. Doing CCBA and perhaps the Bay Area fair. My main goal is to stay in Chicago, but I have ties to CA and I spent some time in NYC as well.

How should I approach CCBA bids? Is my GPA too low to try for Kirkland/Sidley/Mayer/Skadden, or is there such thing as a URM boost for hiring?

Appreciate the help. I'm figuring I'll mostly mass mail in CA and NY and focus my OCI bids on Chicago, just trying to see how the diversity career fairs fit in around that.

[Anonymous User]

Here's another iteration of: MASS MAIL OMG DO IT.

I'm not a great interviewer but got approx. 10 callbacks in the biggest markets. Five of them were from mass-mailing.

The best part of mass-mailing for students not great at highly structured 20-min OCI interviews is that often you'll go straight to callback after a very short phone conversation.

[cookiejar1]

I'm planning on mass mailing secondary markets (LA) that I have ties to but would prefer to work in SF/NYC. If I'm mass-mailing in July would firms based in SF / NYC find out that I've been mass mailing their satellite offices in LA? How do you suggest approaching that if it's brought up?

[Kikero]

I don't think they would check/care. I actually got rejected at the screener stage by a satellite office of a firm I later got an offer from.

Obviously this is a little different if there is only one recruiting contact for the entire firm and you indicate interest in a satellite office.

[homestyle28]

Throwing in my .02: There's no safe GPA for Chicago, but 3.5+ gives you a fighting chance most places. If you're sub 3.5 and really want Chicago, I'd suggest talking to OCS (seriously!) Dave was helpful for me in putting together a list of firms who often hire summers, but don't come to OCI for a variety of reasons. Sub 3.5 midwesterners who can tell competent stories have good shots at most midwest secondary markets.

Good luck gang.

[Anonymous User]

Given that NU doesn't release rank information, whats the best way to navigate CCBA hiring criteria? A lot of firms either require or prefer "top 33/25/15%" - I'm at 3.62 cumulative, any thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Given that NU doesn't release rank information, whats the best way to navigate CCBA hiring criteria? A lot of firms either require or prefer "top 33/25/15%" - I'm at 3.62 cumulative, any thoughts?

The CCBA hiring criteria is not targeted towards NU, so you should apply freely and use the GPA breakdowns for NU callbacks for general guidance. The reason why I say general guidance is because the sample size is small, firms deviate a great deal, and firms at diversity fairs are known to deviate even more. Firsthand experience: I received a callback with a GPA that was ~0.2 less than the median GPA for a firm listed on the NU callback spreadsheet.

Think about it like this: the diverse candidate pool is a smaller pool of students, and you're stacked against students around the country, yes, but mostly local law schools. Those local law schools also req/prefer top X%, but many of those local schools have a more stringent cutoff than at NU.

My advice is to bid as you would at NU OCI, but a bit more generously.

[M458]

Given that NU doesn't release rank information, whats the best way to navigate CCBA hiring criteria? A lot of firms either require or prefer "top 33/25/15%" - I'm at 3.62 cumulative, any thoughts?

The CCBA hiring criteria is not targeted towards NU, so you should apply freely and use the GPA breakdowns for NU callbacks for general guidance. The reason why I say general guidance is because the sample size is small, firms deviate a great deal, and firms at diversity fairs are known to deviate even more. Firsthand experience: I received a callback with a GPA that was ~0.2 less than the median GPA for a firm listed on the NU callback spreadsheet.

Think about it like this: the diverse candidate pool is a smaller pool of students, and you're stacked against students around the country, yes, but mostly local law schools. Those local law schools also req/prefer top X%, but many of those local schools have a more stringent cutoff than at NU.

My advice is to bid as you would at NU OCI, but a bit more generously.

Any idea when we're getting those GPA breakdowns for NU callbacks? Wish OCS would send them to us since we have to bid for two of these fairs this week. Also, is CCBA pre-select or lottery? Heard different things.

Oh, and thank you to all the 2L/3L/Alumni helping us out!

[bricktemplar]

This is really helpful guys, thanks. Do you guys know when career services will release the median index? Also, what's the GPA range (generally) for D.C.?

[Cobretti]

This is really helpful guys, thanks. Do you guys know when career services will release the median index? Also, what's the GPA range (generally) for D.C.?

Looking at last year's thread the data was posted on Monday, June 17. So I guess we will get the data sometime around then. Rising 2L here as well... but from what I've heard DC is about the most competitive market there is, so maybe 3.7+?

[bdubs]

This is really helpful guys, thanks. Do you guys know when career services will release the median index? Also, what's the GPA range (generally) for D.C.?

Looking at last year's thread the data was posted on Monday, June 17. So I guess we will get the data sometime around then. Rising 2L here as well... but from what I've heard DC is about the most competitive market there is, so maybe 3.7+?

3.7+ is about right to have a shot at DC, although you will probably need a little better for the top DC firms (think law review).

The biggest problem with DC is that the largest classes are at pretty prestigious firms (Covington, A&P, Wilmer, Skadden, Gibson, Sidley, Jones Day, etc.) There are a lot of middle ranked firms that have DC offices, but many of them are small so their SA hiring is less numbers driven.

[bjsesq]

At 3.6x is it worth bidding Kirkland and Skadden(chi) high?

It certainly is for Kirkland. Can't comment on Skadden.

[09042014]

1) Don't listen to whatever "Rank 25%, need a 3.5, top10%" bullshit that firms put in their listings. It's not even close to accurate. And it's not even usually too low or too high. It's random. Some firms that want 3.8+ will put top 50%. Some firms that will take 2.9 put top 15%. Don't even consider it.

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

[bdubs]

2) DC is hard as fuck. Even 3.7 is going to be hard. I wouldn't bid entirely DC unless you had a 3.8. In the 3.6-3.8 range, I'd bid your first 13 spots to an easier market. And then bid DC firms above 13. DC firms aren't as popular so they go later in bidding.

This is good advice, except even at 3.8 I wouldn't bid exclusively DC. I would throw in some NY or Chicago firms that have big classes where your GPA will give you a big advantage in getting a CB/offer.