Georgetown EIW 2014 Forum

[m079]

You should definitely rely more on the grade history posted by GULC. They're post 2009 but you should still look at them conservatively (i.e., consider the median as the minimum GPA; so aim for firms with medians below your GPA. Don't let the grade preferences/cut-offs that firms post keep you from bidding on them.

[Anonymous User]

Hello laxstar1, thanks for the helpful information.
I have a couple of questions to you or any others who could chime in.

I am right in between the median and top 40% range, 3.3 to 3.4.
I want corporate in NYC.

Could anyone provide me with the name of firms that I might have a chance in?
The school´s past grade history chart doesn´t seem to match the hiring guidline that the firms indicated themselves. For instance, some firms indicate they are looking for top 10%, but the grade history show people with much lower grades got the positions. Or the firm says it wants B+, but the grade history indicates they only hired top 3rd or above.

I just want to know in general what firms are in my gpa range.


Thank you guys.

Same GPA also was interested in nyc transactional and now summering at a one of the below firms in the Corporate group. I did well but had to hustle. The below firms gave me callback with a 3.39.

Milbank
Shearman
Schulte
Stroock
Dechert
Sidley
Morgan Lewis
White and case
Calwalder
Cahill
Bingham

[Anonymous User]

Hello laxstar1, thanks for the helpful information.
I have a couple of questions to you or any others who could chime in.

I am right in between the median and top 40% range, 3.3 to 3.4.
I want corporate in NYC.

Could anyone provide me with the name of firms that I might have a chance in?
The school´s past grade history chart doesn´t seem to match the hiring guidline that the firms indicated themselves. For instance, some firms indicate they are looking for top 10%, but the grade history show people with much lower grades got the positions. Or the firm says it wants B+, but the grade history indicates they only hired top 3rd or above.

I just want to know in general what firms are in my gpa range.


Thank you guys.

Same GPA also was interested in nyc transactional and now summering at a one of the below firms in the Corporate group. I did well but had to hustle. The below firms gave me callback with a 3.39.

Milbank
Shearman
Schulte
Stroock
Dechert
Sidley
Morgan Lewis
White and case
Calwalder
Cahill
Bingham

Thanks for this, as someone right on the median. That seems like a lot of CB's for that GPA (not that I really know anything beyond the grade sheet). Any advice on bidding strategies? It seems a bit difficult to discern exactly how to do that successfully. Also, advice on hustle, beyond mass mailing? What did you do? I'm currently in NY, is there anything I should be doing NOW, before the bidding deadline, to give myself a better shot? I want to be an SA in NYC, and I don't have a preference between lit and transactional at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Hello laxstar1, thanks for the helpful information.
I have a couple of questions to you or any others who could chime in.

I am right in between the median and top 40% range, 3.3 to 3.4.
I want corporate in NYC.

Could anyone provide me with the name of firms that I might have a chance in?
The school´s past grade history chart doesn´t seem to match the hiring guidline that the firms indicated themselves. For instance, some firms indicate they are looking for top 10%, but the grade history show people with much lower grades got the positions. Or the firm says it wants B+, but the grade history indicates they only hired top 3rd or above.

I just want to know in general what firms are in my gpa range.


Thank you guys.

Same GPA also was interested in nyc transactional and now summering at a one of the below firms in the Corporate group. I did well but had to hustle. The below firms gave me callback with a 3.39.

Milbank
Shearman
Schulte
Stroock
Dechert
Sidley
Morgan Lewis
White and case
Calwalder
Cahill
Bingham

Thanks for this, as someone right on the median. That seems like a lot of CB's for that GPA (not that I really know anything beyond the grade sheet). Any advice on bidding strategies? It seems a bit difficult to discern exactly how to do that successfully. Also, advice on hustle, beyond mass mailing? What did you do? I'm currently in NY, is there anything I should be doing NOW, before the bidding deadline, to give myself a better shot? I want to be an SA in NYC, and I don't have a preference between lit and transactional at this point.

If you make yourself not anonymous I can PM you. But basically bid to maximize screeners with big NYC classes in your grade range. A majority of the firms above fit that criteria. Also you def should be trying to network with attorneys at your target firms. You can try to find a connection or if you are like me just cold email GULC alums and ask for a coffee. But when I have time I can post a longer and more comprehensive guide to do what I did. Also don't be down on yourself median is not a horrible place to be and I ended with 23 screeners 15 cbs and 4 offers before I cancelled the rest of my callbacks. ( I know my results are far from typical but I thought I would throw out a perspective of what happens when you put a lot of time into bidding and networking from a little above median)

[bsf2344]

Hello laxstar1, thanks for the helpful information.
I have a couple of questions to you or any others who could chime in.

I am right in between the median and top 40% range, 3.3 to 3.4.
I want corporate in NYC.

Could anyone provide me with the name of firms that I might have a chance in?
The school´s past grade history chart doesn´t seem to match the hiring guidline that the firms indicated themselves. For instance, some firms indicate they are looking for top 10%, but the grade history show people with much lower grades got the positions. Or the firm says it wants B+, but the grade history indicates they only hired top 3rd or above.

I just want to know in general what firms are in my gpa range.


Thank you guys.

Same GPA also was interested in nyc transactional and now summering at a one of the below firms in the Corporate group. I did well but had to hustle. The below firms gave me callback with a 3.39.

Milbank
Shearman
Schulte
Stroock
Dechert
Sidley
Morgan Lewis
White and case
Calwalder
Cahill
Bingham

Thanks for this, as someone right on the median. That seems like a lot of CB's for that GPA (not that I really know anything beyond the grade sheet). Any advice on bidding strategies? It seems a bit difficult to discern exactly how to do that successfully. Also, advice on hustle, beyond mass mailing? What did you do? I'm currently in NY, is there anything I should be doing NOW, before the bidding deadline, to give myself a better shot? I want to be an SA in NYC, and I don't have a preference between lit and transactional at this point.

If you make yourself not anonymous I can PM you. But basically bid to maximize screeners with big NYC classes in your grade range. A majority of the firms above fit that criteria. Also you def should be trying to network with attorneys at your target firms. You can try to find a connection or if you are like me just cold email GULC alums and ask for a coffee. But when I have time I can post a longer and more comprehensive guide to do what I did. Also don't be down on yourself median is not a horrible place to be and I ended with 23 screeners 15 cbs and 4 offers before I cancelled the rest of my callbacks. ( I know my results are far from typical but I thought I would throw out a perspective of what happens when you put a lot of time into bidding and networking from a little above median)

I would love to hear some of your advice. Thank you

[laxstar1]

Going to completely agree with the above. The key is firms that aren't super grade-selective, with big classes. All things being equal, a firm that takes 3.3 but takes 10 kids is way more of a reach than a firm that takes 50. That's the median sweet spot I think. I'm not going to be too much help with which firms are good from median because I was a transfer, so my GPA was really high, but not a GULC GPA.

[irish25]

Also a rising 2L at GULC with similar stats. Any information you could PM be would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Hello laxstar1, thanks for the helpful information.
I have a couple of questions to you or any others who could chime in.

I am right in between the median and top 40% range, 3.3 to 3.4.
I want corporate in NYC.

Could anyone provide me with the name of firms that I might have a chance in?
The school´s past grade history chart doesn´t seem to match the hiring guidline that the firms indicated themselves. For instance, some firms indicate they are looking for top 10%, but the grade history show people with much lower grades got the positions. Or the firm says it wants B+, but the grade history indicates they only hired top 3rd or above.

I just want to know in general what firms are in my gpa range.


Thank you guys.

Same GPA also was interested in nyc transactional and now summering at a one of the below firms in the Corporate group. I did well but had to hustle. The below firms gave me callback with a 3.39.

Milbank
Shearman
Schulte
Stroock
Dechert
Sidley
Morgan Lewis
White and case
Calwalder
Cahill
Bingham

Thanks for this, as someone right on the median. That seems like a lot of CB's for that GPA (not that I really know anything beyond the grade sheet). Any advice on bidding strategies? It seems a bit difficult to discern exactly how to do that successfully. Also, advice on hustle, beyond mass mailing? What did you do? I'm currently in NY, is there anything I should be doing NOW, before the bidding deadline, to give myself a better shot? I want to be an SA in NYC, and I don't have a preference between lit and transactional at this point.

If you make yourself not anonymous I can PM you. But basically bid to maximize screeners with big NYC classes in your grade range. A majority of the firms above fit that criteria. Also you def should be trying to network with attorneys at your target firms. You can try to find a connection or if you are like me just cold email GULC alums and ask for a coffee. But when I have time I can post a longer and more comprehensive guide to do what I did. Also don't be down on yourself median is not a horrible place to be and I ended with 23 screeners 15 cbs and 4 offers before I cancelled the rest of my callbacks. ( I know my results are far from typical but I thought I would throw out a perspective of what happens when you put a lot of time into bidding and networking from a little above median)

Since I have alot of free time on my hands after closing a deal and TLS has really helped me land what was my best outcome firm. I will give a more detailed guide.

Pre-EIW:
Network your ass off. Ask anyone who remotely may know a lawyer in a big law firm if they can make an intro for you. Once all of those connections are used move on to cold emailing lawyers at your target firms. I would try to first narrow by GULC then practice group and then narrow down by people that are 1. smiling in the picture and 2. seemed involved at GULC; look for involvement in Peer Advisors or Student Ambassdors. Also, choice people who seem like you i.e. I'm a white male kinda bro so i chose to email other white male kinda bro looking lawyers. However, if you are a AA female and there is a GULC AA female partner she is your go too and make it clear you are a AA female. If all goes according to plan you should around a 75% reply rate with about 75% of the repliers offering to meet for coffee, 20% for a phone call and 5% for lunch. Further, do not only email the senior partner. He/she is so busy that they are likely to ignore you. Having a junior or midlevel associate pushing for you goes much further then you think especially when they call recuriting on your behalf as well as call the partner who is interviewing you. (Both of these happened to me at least 5 times each)
Also, mass mail any firms that do not come to EIW in July. I made a spreadsheet with different tabs for secondary regions I had any ties to. I would do somewhat tailored cover letters for each region. This will take awhile but if you were like me you have alot of time during your 1L summer job. I ended up with 2 cbs pre EIW (1 offer) and this was invaluable practice as well as made me feel more confident when I came to EIW.

Bidding:
Take a lot of time on your bidding process it is much more important then most people give it credit for. I made a spreadsheet outlining the GPA for the firms, size of the summer class, how many people bid them/how many slots they had, and major practice areas. Once you complied this information then try to find firms that are in your GPA range, with large summer classes 15+. and are not signficiantly overbid. However, ths is not the end of the game, because as you may imagine most people can run the data too. The biggest thing that helped me land 20+ sceeners was to know when to drop really oversuscribed firms thus allowing me to obtain my 11-20 bids. An example is that about 10 firms will have 3 to 1 bid to interview ratios. the most simple way to bid was to rank these firms 1-10 in selectivity order and then hope for the best. That is WRONG the trick is pick the top 5 firms (you like) with 3 to 1 interview ratios and then drop the remaining 5 firm to bids 45-50. This allows for you to get your 1-5 bids as well as get bids 6-10 with firms with 2 to 1 bid to interview ratios, because these firms have moved up from 11-15 to now 6-10 where you can actually get them. The rest of your bid list should follow this method with you dropping some firms to the bottom which you like but know mathmatically you won't get. If this done correctly it can net you bids 1-21 (the system will kick you after that 21 sceeners) Also, a word of wisdom is that if there is a firm you truly like and have connections bid them higher then they should be bid just to ensure that you get them, but this can only be done for 1 firm or it will screw up the ordering.

Post Bid reveal:
Once your interview schedule is released immediatley log on whenever open signup is and pick up 2 interviews. Obviously try to get firms you are interested in and start with NYC firms and then after your 24 waiting period pick up secondary market firms. Also, block them back to back if necessary this is not ideal but it is better to have 2 interviews then 1 and you can always leave an interview early or arrive at an interview late depending on which firms you like more. A big tip is that if you have a friend that didn't do EIW or didn't bother with open sign ups ask them to log in for you during the 24 waiting period when you are completley blacked out. If a better firm comes up then immediately drop one of your open sign up firms and pick up the better firm. This will also not lengthen your 24 waiting period because the period continues to run even though you swapped firms. Also, immediately reach out to any connects you made at firms that you didn't get though the lottery and ask for an interview. A majority will brush you off or say come to the hospitality suite (code for you don't have a high enough GPA) but some will ask you interview at lunch or on their shadow schedule.

EIW (the bg dance)
So by now you should have your interviews set and wearing your Sunday's best conservative suit. Arive early as the elevator will be packed and take an uber as no one wants to be sweating before they even show up to the interview. Also, read the WSJ for the week leading up to EIW and everyday during if you want to do transcational. It was really helpful to be like I want transcational and also I saw X deal was just announced today what are your thoughts. Further, the WSJ bolds all of the firms names that are involved in the transcation so you will really stick out if you say I want your firm since you have the biggets deals like X i just read about in the WSJ. The interviews themsleves I really don't have much advice for. If you did all of the above you prepared the most that you could. I made a quick cheat sheet for every firm so I could quickly get a feel for what I wanted to craft my narrative for the firms as well as if I had a connection to the firm to try and work in. The biggest piece of advice is do NOT be afraid to "bend the truth" in the interview. Say whatever you feel will get you a CB, because honestly 75% of the stuff the attorney is saying about the great hours and collegial feel is BS anyways so don't feel bad. Once the CB's start rolling in do NOT answer your phone when you see that glorious 212 number come up. Let it go to voicemail and immediately schedule as soon as possible but if you are like me and started to get a flood of CB's by Wednesday you have to be selective in which firms you schedule first. I didn't even bother to take 75% of my CB's since I got an offer from my number 1 firm. Also, do not be that dick that is like i have 12 CB's you just seem like an arrogant prick.

Callbacks:
Keep doing the same thing that you have done and stay relaxed your medianish grades are good enough and all they care about is your personality. A quick tip is that even if a firm says that they do not reveal interviewers if you call the day before and ask nicely someone in recuriting will give you your schedule which is a big advantage. Also, if possible reach out to your previous contacts and have them request to interview you. Try not to do 2 in the same day but sometimes it is unavoidable.

Offers:
I hope everyone gets numerous offers. However, def go back for a follow up lunch and ask real questions now about firm if you are undecided. Also, do not be a dick and sit on 8 offers when you know their are really only 2 possible offers you would take, because you are only hurting other GULC students who could be your friends.

Final Thoughts:
This summer was one of the most nerve racking summers I have ever had but still kind of fun if you like playing the game of trying to get a job like I did. Take what CSO gives with a grian of salt, because they have only GULC interests in mind and not your individual interests. A good analogy for CSO is like when a baby helps you make a cake they can be helpful by stirring etc, but sometimes they will break the bowl and leave you to pick up the pieces. DO NOT put yourself in a place to have to pick up the pieces. Further, getting a job is guerilla warfare do whatever it takes to get a job don't care if you seem like a gunner or people say why are doing all this everyone gets a job here. Do whatever is ethically okay to get that dream job, because at the end of the day this really is your best shot to start your career off on the right foot. I'll drop into this thread when I'm bored this summer if anyone has anymore specific questions. Good luck everyone.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for that. It's hard to get any good, comprehensive information.

[Anonymous User]

Section cut off ranks were released today. I am above 4 of the 5 full-time sections cut off for top 15%, but my section had a very high (3.69) top 15% cut off. This has bumped me down into the next cut off: the top 33% for my section.

Is there anyway to communicate that I would be top 15% in 4 of the other 5 sections on my resume? Putting top 33% instead of top 15% seems to be a fairly significant blow. Thanks.

[dead head]

Section cut off ranks were released today. I am above 4 of the 5 full-time sections cut off for top 15%, but my section had a very high (3.69) top 15% cut off. This has bumped me down into the next cut off: the top 33% for my section.

Is there anyway to communicate that I would be top 15% in 4 of the other 5 sections on my resume? Putting top 33% instead of top 15% seems to be a fairly significant blow. Thanks.

GPA: 3.66 (top 15%: 3.69)

Nobody really cares that your GPA is better than the top 15% of another section that didn't take the same exams and whom you weren't competing with.

[Anonymous User]

How do I find the GPA cut off for firms for Georgetown OCI?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know whether they tell only the top 5% or entire top 10% their exact ranking, when they release that info, and what the top 5% cutoffs have been in the past.

[Anonymous User]

How do I find the GPA cut off for firms for Georgetown OCI?

Go to the EIW page and there is a grade history report. Also, some firms have grades listed on simplicity.

[dead head]

Does anyone know whether they tell only the top 5% or entire top 10% their exact ranking, when they release that info, and what the top 5% cutoffs have been in the past.

They only tell those within the top 5%. There will likely be significant variation per year and section, and I don't have specific cutoffs (which would only tell you the specific percentile within the top 5%, and not the 5% cutoff).

[roomba]

Is there any way to get past bid statistics? GULC only seems to have released the number of bids in 2013 for each firm with the number of the firm's 2013 interview slots and 2014 interview slots.

It would be interesting to see if there was fluctuation for these stats in earlier years.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know whether they tell only the top 5% or entire top 10% their exact ranking, when they release that info, and what the top 5% cutoffs have been in the past.

They only tell those within the top 5%. There will likely be significant variation per year and section, and I don't have specific cutoffs (which would only tell you the specific percentile within the top 5%, and not the 5% cutoff).

I've seen this rumored a couple times, but I'm not sure it's true. If it is, I'm not sure if it has happened yet this year at least. It's concievable that I wouldn't be in the top 5% of my section, but I'd be a little surprised.

[Anonymous User]

FYI: the 5% email came out by this time last year (6/20ish). They could just be behind though, so I wouldn't worry.

Above poster is also right that there is likely significant variation from section-to-section.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the info. Like I said, I would be surprised if I didn't get it (3.88), but it seems like it should come out with the general cutoff information (which was released last week). Either way, thanks for the response.

[Anonymous User]

How should transfers bid in EIW?

Not sure how my GPA will be looked at, or whether I should rank the most selective firms first, followed by the least selective firms (GPA cut off)... any help would be appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

Will someone please rank my bid list? Please be extremely critical...

I am a transfer student with a 3.8 GPA (Top 2%), coming from a TTT

(Law Firm Name // Location // Bid Slots Available for 2014)

1.) Greenberg Traurig (FL) – 11
2.) Holland & Knight (FL) – 21
3.) Alston & Bird (NY) – 21
4.) Curtis Mallet-Prevost Colt & Mosle (NY) – 21
5.) Kirkland & Ellis (NY) – 21
6.) hogan lovells (NY) – 21
7.) Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY) – 21
8.) Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe (NY) – 21
9.) Dechert LLP (NY) – 42
10.) Cahill Gordon & Reindel (NY) – 42
11.) White & Case (NY) – 63
12.) proskauer rose llp (NY) – 63
13.) Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft (NY) – 63
14.) Shearman & Sterling LLP (NY) – 63
15.) Weil Gotshal & Manges (NY) – 63
16.) Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP (NY) – 63
17.) Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson (NY) – 42
18.) Stroock & Stroock & Lavan (NY) – 42
19.) paul hastings llp (NY) – 126
20.) Willkie Farr & Gallagher (NY) – 84
21.) Jones Day (NY) – 126
22.) Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY) – 63
23.) Ropes & Gray LLP (NY) – 42
24.) Linklaters (NY) – 42
25.) Winston & Strawn (NY) – 42
26.) K&L Gates (NY) – 42
27.) Seward & Kissel LLP (NY) – 21
28.) WilmerHale (NY) – 21
29.) sidley austin llp (NY) – 21
30.) Allen & Overy (NY) – 21
31.) Latham & Watkins (NY) – 20
32.) Dinsmore & Shohl (Cincinatti) – 18
33.) Gunster (FL) – 21
34.) Drinker Biddle & Reath (PA) – 42
35.) Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman (NY) – 21
36.) Clifford Chance (NY) – 21
37.) Chadbourne & Parke (NY) – 84
38.) Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) – 21
39.) Skadden (NY) – 42
40.) Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (NY) – 63
41.) Gibson Dunn & Crutcher (NY) – 21
42.) Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison (NY) – 105
43.) McDermott Will & Emery (NY) – 21
44.) Boies Schiller & Flexner (NY) – 21
45.) Quarles & Brady (FL) – 21
46.) Hollingsworth (DC) – 21
47.) Reed Smith (NY) – 42
48.) O’Melveny & Myers (NY) – 84
49.) Akin Gump Srauss Hauer & Feld (NY) – 84
50.) Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton (NY) – 63


Thanks!

[dead head]

What does OCS project as median number of (lottery) interviews? What was the median number of interviews last year? If they won't release that, how many total interview slots exist, and how many students are expected to participate (or participated last year)? Does bidding matter for preselects?

The reason I ask is because even though you have 50 bid slots, probably half of those are complete garbage, and I don't think most people get anything above 20 (at least not in a major market), and few above 15. With that in mind, I think that firms with large classes, like Willkie, Weil, Shearman, Milbank, White & Case, etc. should be moved up in your bidlist if you want to get them through the lottery.

I assume you have ties for Florida. That's great, but they have small class sizes. I would bid them lower and mass mail them; I think you'll have an excellent chance of being either pre-selected or being interviewed through your mass mail efforts.

[Anonymous User]

What does OCS project as median number of (lottery) interviews? What was the median number of interviews last year? If they won't release that, how many total interview slots exist, and how many students are expected to participate (or participated last year)? Does bidding matter for preselects?

The reason I ask is because even though you have 50 bid slots, probably half of those are complete garbage, and I don't think most people get anything above 20 (at least not in a major market), and few above 15. With that in mind, I think that firms with large classes, like Willkie, Weil, Shearman, Milbank, White & Case, etc. should be moved up in your bidlist if you want to get them through the lottery.

I assume you have ties for Florida. That's great, but they have small class sizes. I would bid them lower and mass mail them; I think you'll have an excellent chance of being either pre-selected or being interviewed through your mass mail efforts.

I don't believe OCS released that information. They have advised to expect anywhere between 11 and 15 interviews. However, based on the number of bids used last year, and assuming each person used all 50 bids (which is not the case), the average number of interviews was ~13.4. Assuming the number of people bidding remains the same, this year should have an average of ~15.2 (more interview slots).

[dead head]

What does OCS project as median number of (lottery) interviews? What was the median number of interviews last year? If they won't release that, how many total interview slots exist, and how many students are expected to participate (or participated last year)? Does bidding matter for preselects?

I don't believe OCS released that information. They have advised to expect anywhere between 11 and 15 interviews. However, based on the number of bids used last year, and assuming each person used all 50 bids (which is not the case), the average number of interviews was ~13.4. Assuming the number of people bidding remains the same, this year should have an average of ~15.2 (more interview slots).

It doesn't matter if everyone used all 50 bids: it only matters how many total slots were available and how many students were participating.

If 30% of slots are pre-selects, then you have to discount your 15.2 figure by 30% in order to determine the average number of lottery slots. Have they told you how pre-selects are awarded? Is there a cap on the number of preselects a student can receive, and does your bid ranking matter?

Bid market will also affect the number of interviews you get. DC has historically been the lowest, while those including secondary markets have fared better, with pure NYC in the middle, but this is kind of obvious.

[Anonymous User]

In response to anonymous at 9:26pm: OCS told me to expect between 5-8 interviews for NY/DC, IF I bid well. They said NY and DC are so hyped up that people who bid solely on NY/DC get as low as 2 interviews.