fired from internship Forum

[chem!]

You got fired from an unpaid internship. Imagine interviewing someone who was fired from McDonald's. Imagine laughing at them as they try to explain it away and then imagine the look on the hiring partner's face as you try to explain how you were fired from indentured servitude. You claim to have made sacrifices, and clearly work ethic was one of them (assuming tardiness is the explanation, which I sincerely doubt ). Tolkien characters don't troll that hard.

Please read this.

[SemperLegal]

I think some of these responses are a little harsh. Being fired for habitual lateness is probably the best reason to be fired. It'd be much, much worse to be fired for bad work product -- or even worse, for breaking a client's confidence or any other real issue that suggests you're unethical or not competent. Being tardy is absolutely nothing in comparison and it's something you can easily correct.

I agree replies are overly harsh, but there's really no flaw more distasteful than the inability to even show up. Bad work product shows inexperience, violation of confidence shows lack of judgement. Both are fixable.

Not showing up shows a lack of seriousness and work ethic. Some people go their entire lives without being able to shake that special snowflakness.

[smallfirmassociate]

I think some of these responses are a little harsh. Being fired for habitual lateness is probably the best reason to be fired. It'd be much, much worse to be fired for bad work product -- or even worse, for breaking a client's confidence or any other real issue that suggests you're unethical or not competent. Being tardy is absolutely nothing in comparison and it's something you can easily correct.

I agree replies are overly harsh, but there's really no flaw more distasteful than the inability to even show up. Bad work product shows inexperience, violation of confidence shows lack of judgement. Both are fixable.

Not showing up shows a lack of seriousness and work ethic. Some people go their entire lives without being able to shake that special snowflakness.

I've shown up late on a regular basis to every job I've ever had, but that never stopped me from getting promotions and meeting career goals. Some employers have barked about it a little, but for the most part they learn to deal with it. I don't think employers find "lack of seriousness and work ethic" to be such a grave shortcoming. A grave shortcoming is being an unprofitable employee, disrespectful, derelict/incompetent, crooked, or unreliable (and reliability as a whole is different from simply regular tardiness).

I say that not to derail the thread, but to say this: I highly doubt OP was fired for some minor or moderate tardiness issues. If OP's absence resulted in missing deadlines, missing meetings, poor work product, or evidenced subordination, etc., then that would be the issue.

[mephistopheles]

i love that posters come in here and try to give sermons on how one should comport themselves and why OP was so wrong.

get off your damn high horse, no one cares about your opinion on something that's basically water under the bridge

[Jackie U]

As I understand it. Most employers will not give bad refs, avoiding the possibility of a suit. Many companies only acknowledge the employee’s length of employment. With that in mind you could list the last dozen employers that axed you. If you’re really lucky they bounced during the first of the month... on your resume it'll appear as though you worked the entire month. Being fired on April 1 or April 30, looks the same on your resume.

[IAFG]

As I understand it. Most employers will not give bad refs to avoid the possibility of a suit. Many companies only acknowledge the employee’s length of employment. With that in mind you could list the last dozen employers that axed you. If you’re really lucky they bounced during the first of the month... on your resume it'll appear as though you worked the entire month. Being fired on April 1 or April 30, looks the same on your resume.

If OP was fired yesterday, it MIGHT be obvious he didn't make it the whole term.

I dunno. I would go to your OCS and see if they'll call the agency to see what version of events they tell when it's not you asking.

[Hipster but Athletic]

You should talk to them and convince them to not give you a bad reference. Defamation is a real thing and most employers are categorically moving to neutral references anyways. Firing an intern is obviously way less of a big deal than firing an employee, but if you can talk to HR or your supervisor you might be able to use the fact that terminations freak them the fuck out a bit to your favor.

Eta: scooped by Jackie.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I agree replies are overly harsh, but there's really no flaw more distasteful than the inability to even show up. Bad work product shows inexperience, violation of confidence shows lack of judgement. Both are fixable.

Not showing up shows a lack of seriousness and work ethic. Some people go their entire lives without being able to shake that special snowflakness.

I've shown up late on a regular basis to every job I've ever had, but that never stopped me from getting promotions and meeting career goals. Some employers have barked about it a little, but for the most part they learn to deal with it. I don't think employers find "lack of seriousness and work ethic" to be such a grave shortcoming. A grave shortcoming is being an unprofitable employee, disrespectful, derelict/incompetent, crooked, or unreliable (and reliability as a whole is different from simply regular tardiness).

I say that not to derail the thread, but to say this: I highly doubt OP was fired for some minor or moderate tardiness issues. If OP's absence resulted in missing deadlines, missing meetings, poor work product, or evidenced subordination, etc., then that would be the issue.

Yeah, I think there's lateness, and there's lateness. (I say this as a non-morning person who tends to be late, too - but only in a context where it's not an issue for getting the job done, which is what you have to be able to judge.) Being fired for lateness could mean a lot of things, and I don't think semperlegal and smallfirmassociate are actually contradicting each other.

That said, OP doesn't have to go into the gory details for our entertainment. And it seems to me that everyone has agreed that leaving the internship on the resume is a bad idea. Is there anyone who thinks it's not?

(Re: not giving bad references to avoid a suit, I also don't think supervisors at an internship are in the same position as employers actually paying you - what can an unpaid intern realistically sue over? I also think the issue here is more running into someone who knows someone working at the former employer than worrying about a formal background check.)

I actually don't think not finishing the whole semester makes the slightest difference. I know plenty of people who did less-standard internship terms for all kinds of reasons.

[IAFG]

I'm not convinced OP needs to leave it off. I feel like OP needs more information.

[Hipster but Athletic]

I agree replies are overly harsh, but there's really no flaw more distasteful than the inability to even show up. Bad work product shows inexperience, violation of confidence shows lack of judgement. Both are fixable.

Not showing up shows a lack of seriousness and work ethic. Some people go their entire lives without being able to shake that special snowflakness.

I've shown up late on a regular basis to every job I've ever had, but that never stopped me from getting promotions and meeting career goals. Some employers have barked about it a little, but for the most part they learn to deal with it. I don't think employers find "lack of seriousness and work ethic" to be such a grave shortcoming. A grave shortcoming is being an unprofitable employee, disrespectful, derelict/incompetent, crooked, or unreliable (and reliability as a whole is different from simply regular tardiness).

I say that not to derail the thread, but to say this: I highly doubt OP was fired for some minor or moderate tardiness issues. If OP's absence resulted in missing deadlines, missing meetings, poor work product, or evidenced subordination, etc., then that would be the issue.

Yeah, I think there's lateness, and there's lateness. (I say this as a non-morning person who tends to be late, too - but only in a context where it's not an issue for getting the job done, which is what you have to be able to judge.) Being fired for lateness could mean a lot of things, and I don't think semperlegal and smallfirmassociate are actually contradicting each other.

That said, OP doesn't have to go into the gory details for our entertainment. And it seems to me that everyone has agreed that leaving the internship on the resume is a bad idea. Is there anyone who thinks it's not?

(Re: not giving bad references to avoid a suit, I also don't think supervisors at an internship are in the same position as employers actually paying you - what can an unpaid intern sue over? I also think the issue here is more running into someone who knows someone working at the former employer than worrying about a formal background check.)

I actually don't think not finishing the whole semester makes the slightest difference. I know plenty of people who did less-standard internship terms for all kinds of reasons.

Well for one, an unpaid intern could sue for being a fucking unpaid intern. But it's not the threat of real suit so much as employers developing a neutral references policy that you might want to see if you "qualify" for.
I'd think a conciliatory note (that isn't too damning!) and a question about what they'll say in a reference might be the best.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Well for one, an unpaid intern could sue for being a fucking unpaid intern.

True. Forgot about that.

But it's not the threat of real suit so much as employers developing a neutral references policy that you might want to see if you "qualify" for.
I'd think a conciliatory note (that isn't too damning!) and a question about what they'll say in a reference might be the best.

This makes sense, although the OP has already said they told him/her that they would be honest about what happened but also make clear that OP's work product was good.

[Jackie U]

Defamation is defamation. If my firm took walk-ins, I’d love this one. If they said they fired you for screwing around on TLS during working hours…. they better be ready to prove it.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Oh well I missed that detail
Ya tread softly then.

[smallfirmassociate]

That said, OP doesn't have to go into the gory details for our entertainment.

Well that's no fun! It's not my fault OP started a thread with a really interesting topic but wants to talk about a less interesting topic.

Conversation reminds me of one of these types:

[Group of dude bros are hanging out at a dirty college house, having beers and starting to think about which bar to invade.]

OP Dudebro: We can't leave until my sister drops by. She's bringing my coat. But then I think we should go to Dudebroski Tap, at least fir-

Lamphumper Dudebro: Wait, you have a sister?

OP Dudebro: Yeah. I have two. Anyway, Dudebroski Tap has two-for-ones on Frid-

Bicepkisser Dudebro: Are they twins? Your sisters?

OP Dudebro: No, you sick fu--

Lamphumper Dudebro: Do you have a picture? Are they married?

[Hipster but Athletic]

Defamation is defamation. If my firm took walk-ins, I’d love this one. If they said they fired you for screwing around on TLS during working hours…. they better be ready to prove it.

Which is why maybe talk to HR. But if I'm a small shot lawyer supervisor, I'm calling the bluff that you ever sue an employer for such a marginal offense and take the black mark of being the asshole who sued his ex employer.

[mr.hands]

Assuming this isn't a troll...

OP just leave it off the resume and move on.

[Dafaq]

I agree with the poster about defamation. We handled a defamation case during my SA. I thought it was unwinnable but I was wrong (after we brought suit the company changed their reference policy, which we used against them) Given that our OP is a hard working law student, with dreams of making a career, carrying a mountain of tuition debt, blah-blah, I’d say the offenders would never again say anything negative about him/her. Not cheap to defend this type of suit. Especially if the plaintiff retains large firm representation.

[3|ink]

Seriously guys. I think most employers will just confirm dates of employment. It'd be a different story if OP listed the boss who fired him as a reference. That would open the door to the boss's genuine opinion of the OP.

[guano]

I think some of these responses are a little harsh. Being fired for habitual lateness is probably the best reason to be fired. It'd be much, much worse to be fired for bad work product -- or even worse, for breaking a client's confidence or any other real issue that suggests you're unethical or not competent. Being tardy is absolutely nothing in comparison and it's something you can easily correct.

Being tardy shows that you're not professional, which is not as bad as unethical or incompetent, but certainly not a good sign. It says "my time is worth more than your time", and most clients will strongly disagree with that sentiment.

It also calls into question whether you're capable of meeting deadlines and planning ahead. I'd be worried that you leave everything to the last minute, meaning that your work product would be rushed (and therefore inferior).

Like everything else, until you've proven yourself worthwhile or otherwise have earned the right to show up late, don't do it.

Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I agree with the poster about defamation. We handled a defamation case during my SA. I thought it was unwinnable but I was wrong (after we brought suit the company changed their reference policy, which we used against them) Given that our OP is a hard working law student, with dreams of making a career, carrying a mountain of tuition debt, blah-blah, I’d say the offenders would never again say anything negative about him/her. Not cheap to defend this type of suit. Especially if the plaintiff retains large firm representation.

But isn't the truth a defense to defamation? What if the OP really was late all the time (or whatever else went into the termination)? Honestly, if the internship didn't want to let him/her just finish out the semester and go away, I would worry about what they'd have to support the termination.

[guano]

Well for one, an unpaid intern could sue for being a fucking unpaid intern.

A few weeks ago, I was fired from an unpaid government legal internship.

nope

[Dafaq]

But isn't the truth a defense to defamation? What if the OP really was late all the time (or whatever else went into the termination)?

On face value that sounds right, however these cases can be more involved than anyone would ever imagine. Unless the person was certifiably violent and posed a danger then name, rank, serial # is how I would advise business clients.

One goal of the firm is to protect clients from litigation.

[Tanicius]

The best form of legal advice: Telling someone what they should do in real life based on what you would tell their hypothetical opponent to do, if you were hypothetically a licensed attorney.

[Hipster but Athletic]

The best form of legal advice: Telling someone what they should do in real life based on what you would tell their hypothetical opponent to do, if you were hypothetically a licensed attorney.

What? Ya truth is a defense but I guarantee you it's not gonna work in a motion to dismiss. Neutral references is by far the best policy.

[guano]

The best form of legal advice: Telling someone what they should do in real life based on what you would tell their hypothetical opponent to do, if you were hypothetically a licensed attorney.

What? Ya truth is a defense but I guarantee you it's not gonna work in a motion to dismiss. Neutral references is by far the best policy.

How about: X worked here but his/her employment was terminated prematurely by us.
(without stating a reason)