Loyola PLIP 2014 Thread - Strategies? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.

Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

So completely anecdotal but I felt that I did pretty well with an even shittier uGPA. My LSACGPA was a 2.54, although my major GPA was a bit better in ChemE. Full disclosure, I did have some solid work experience for 4 years before returning to school. I ended up 17 screeners at PLIP and 5 at SIPJF. Out of those I got 8 callbacks and 4 offers (1 v20, 2 v50, and 1 non-vault regional big-law). If your law school grades are fine, your uGPA won't tank you, especially if you are interested in litigation. Just be smart with your bidding and don't be a tool in interviews. Ultimately your uGPA was better than mine and your major is theoretically more desirable.

[Dr. Mantis Toboggan]

Although I haven't yet gone to PLIP, I'd imagine that a poor uGPA will hurt you quite a bit. However, I have a feeling this could be overcome through a graduate degree (e.g., Masters) with a strong graduate GPA and/or publication history, and/or strong work experience that clearly provides you with excellent technical training. Also, a very strong law school GPA could help offset this as well. With that said, if you're K-JD with a mediocre law school GPA, I would guess it will be very tough to get CBs/offers.

I don't know if I agree with a graduate degree can overcome uGPA. Most firms do not really care about a graduate degree unless bio related. A strong work history can definitely overcome uGPA however.

This is credited.

[lhanvt13]

Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

I do not know about sweeps, I had a decent amount, but I definitely know people with a lot more. And I can tell you that unfortunately, a crappy uGPA is really going to hinder your chance with patent pro (maybe if you are at MIT, they might overlook that). Most employers straight out ask you what happened. It is not a good feeling having to explain your GPA even as an engineering student.

welp, I'm doomed

[Anonymous User]

Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.

Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

So completely anecdotal but I felt that I did pretty well with an even shittier uGPA. My LSACGPA was a 2.54, although my major GPA was a bit better in ChemE. Full disclosure, I did have some solid work experience for 4 years before returning to school. I ended up 17 screeners at PLIP and 5 at SIPJF. Out of those I got 8 callbacks and 4 offers (1 v20, 2 v50, and 1 non-vault regional big-law). If your law school grades are fine, your uGPA won't tank you, especially if you are interested in litigation. Just be smart with your bidding and don't be a tool in interviews. Ultimately your uGPA was better than mine and your major is theoretically more desirable.

My experience was similar to this. uGPA was 3.1x from a USNWR top 10 school in bio. Masters degree in bio and solid work experience. Top 1/3 at GW/BC/BU/Fordham/WashU band school and ended up with several screeners and ultimately got my SA position through PLIP (V40, patent lit). Most people from my school had success with screeners turning into callbacks turning into offers from PLIP firms of various sizes and vault ranges. Might just be an outlier though. Definitely be able to answer why you want IP (better if you can make a strong case for either pros or lit).

[kyle010723]

welp, I'm doomed

Not necessarily, if you have a stellar GPA from a top law school, you can always do patent lit.

[kenwash]

Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

I do not know about sweeps, I had a decent amount, but I definitely know people with a lot more. And I can tell you that unfortunately, a crappy uGPA is really going to hinder your chance with patent pro (maybe if you are at MIT, they might overlook that). Most employers straight out ask you what happened. It is not a good feeling having to explain your GPA even as an engineering student.

How low is considered a crappy uGPA?

[kyle010723]

How low is considered a crappy uGPA?

Low enough that you do not feel comfortable listing it on your resume. I would say anything under a 3.0. Although many proc firms ask you to bring them your undergrad transcripts and some actually read them during the interview and ask you questions about it. So that class you failed in your freshman year? Be prepare to answer questions about that.

[Anonymous User]

current 2L, T14+EE, did PLIP last year, taking questions.

[lhanvt13]

current 2L, T14+EE, did PLIP last year, taking questions.

What was your school range, %, and how did you do in terms of Pre-Select/CB/Offers?
Also, what area did you target and are there specific geographic areas that CS/EEs should target?

[ScottRiqui]

tag

[lhanvt13]

current 2L, T14+EE, did PLIP last year, taking questions.

What was your school range, %, and how did you do in terms of Pre-Select/CB/Offers?
Also, what area did you target and are there specific geographic areas that CS/EEs should target?

Anybody else willing to share??

[Anonymous User]

current 2L, T14+EE, did PLIP last year, taking questions.

What was your school range, %, and how did you do in terms of Pre-Select/CB/Offers?
Also, what area did you target and are there specific geographic areas that CS/EEs should target?

Anybody else willing to share??

I was median GPA at a non-HYS T-14, EE, and I got 26 ps. I bid on a mix of maybe 75% general practice firms and 25% boutiques. 10CBs, 5 offers.

I targeted NY and California. EEs and CSs are in demand everywhere, but I felt there was slightly more demand in California.

School rank + GPA + personality matter the most for patent litigation positions at general practice firms, and you probably need some kind of legit technical degree or work experience to get noticed at PLIP, although the bar for this is much lower for litigation than it is for prosecution. For prosecution, technical degree and work experience matter far more than school rank and law GPA.

[Spartan_Alum_12]

current 2L, T14+EE, did PLIP last year, taking questions.

What was your school range, %, and how did you do in terms of Pre-Select/CB/Offers?
Also, what area did you target and are there specific geographic areas that CS/EEs should target?

Anybody else willing to share??

I was median GPA at a non-HYS T-14, EE, and I got 26 ps. I bid on a mix of maybe 75% general practice firms and 25% boutiques. 10CBs, 5 offers.

I targeted NY and California. EEs and CSs are in demand everywhere, but I felt there was slightly more demand in California.

School rank + GPA + personality matter the most for patent litigation positions at general practice firms, and you probably need some kind of legit technical degree or work experience to get noticed at PLIP, although the bar for this is much lower for litigation than it is for prosecution. For prosecution, technical degree and work experience matter far more than school rank and law GPA.

I'm a BSEE at a TTT school (CA), top 20%, passed the patent bar, only WE I'll have is working at a patent clinic this coming 1L summer. Therefore, I'm guessing I should use all 32 bids on smaller boutiques/firms that only do prosecution. Litigation/general practice firms seem to be out of the question considering my law school rank.

One question: Should I put my 3.1 UGPA on my resume? I'm guessing yes since it's above a 3.0 and would be a red flag to boutiques if I left it off.

[lhanvt13]

oh jeebus, school sent out emails about bidding. IT'S ALMOST HERE.

Also, as the poster above, what should my bidding strategy be? Any recommendations welcome.

Me:
T1
just inside 30%
BS in CS
K-JD (related internship works for summers)
Undergrad: top 10 engineering school?? I think?

[Anonymous User]

On this topic...
1. Would it be possible to interview at PLIP at a firm that has both IP and corporate but later change to corporate? Or should I just not bid on them during PLIP and only bid during OCI?
2. Are there potential disadvantages to bidding? Some I can think of include: I bid on IP at a firm but get rejected due to lack of WE or EE degree. I bid again during OCI (to work in their corporate department instead) but because I was rejected, it hurts my chances (or maybe they think I'm disingenuous in terms of either IP or corporate work since I'm applying for both)
Would TCR be to use PLIP to bid ONLY on firms that have a strong IP practice (ie: a firm like QE)

Basically, my preferences are corporate >>>>> patent lit >>>>>>>>>> no biglaw job and I'm unsure what to do

1. From my experience, the firms that don't just do patents keep their patent areas pretty separate. While a SA in non-patent areas will gain experience from a bunch of legal topics (tax, corporate, transactions, estates, etc.) a patent SA will JUST do patent work. The two are not interchangeable from what I've seen. If you get a SA spot through PLIP, you cannot ask the firm to change you to a general SA later on. It's one or the other.

2. The PLIP bidding is separate from any other bidding. From my experience, you don't really harm yourself from bidding. Many of the larger firms use PLIP to take the first shots at the best candidates and they reserve most of the SA slots for PLIPers for sure. However, from my own experience, firms don't blacklist you if they didn't pick you for an interview slot. I have an interview next week for a firm that I had an interview with at PLIP and eventually received a rejection letter from last fall. This new interview was arranged through my school's outreach programs with the firm. Yes, I know I'm interviewing for one of their likely last spots, but it shows that even if you're rejected through PLIP, you still have a chance through other means. Plus, if you bid on a non-patent part of the firm through OCI, chances are good the needs for non-patent areas are different and they won't examine your credentials in the same way (and likely won't even be examined by the same person at all).

So let's say I get interview with firm X from PLIP.
Let's say I bid on firm X for OCI (if I want to work for them in a non-IP position)

How would callbacks work? Would they give me 2 (one for each) or would they ask me what's going on and have me decide one or the other?

What happens if I get an offer at firm X for IP but I interview with them during OCI?

[masterdisaster]

.

[MarcZero]

On this topic...
1. Would it be possible to interview at PLIP at a firm that has both IP and corporate but later change to corporate? Or should I just not bid on them during PLIP and only bid during OCI?
2. Are there potential disadvantages to bidding? Some I can think of include: I bid on IP at a firm but get rejected due to lack of WE or EE degree. I bid again during OCI (to work in their corporate department instead) but because I was rejected, it hurts my chances (or maybe they think I'm disingenuous in terms of either IP or corporate work since I'm applying for both)
Would TCR be to use PLIP to bid ONLY on firms that have a strong IP practice (ie: a firm like QE)

Basically, my preferences are corporate >>>>> patent lit >>>>>>>>>> no biglaw job and I'm unsure what to do

1. From my experience, the firms that don't just do patents keep their patent areas pretty separate. While a SA in non-patent areas will gain experience from a bunch of legal topics (tax, corporate, transactions, estates, etc.) a patent SA will JUST do patent work. The two are not interchangeable from what I've seen. If you get a SA spot through PLIP, you cannot ask the firm to change you to a general SA later on. It's one or the other.

2. The PLIP bidding is separate from any other bidding. From my experience, you don't really harm yourself from bidding. Many of the larger firms use PLIP to take the first shots at the best candidates and they reserve most of the SA slots for PLIPers for sure. However, from my own experience, firms don't blacklist you if they didn't pick you for an interview slot. I have an interview next week for a firm that I had an interview with at PLIP and eventually received a rejection letter from last fall. This new interview was arranged through my school's outreach programs with the firm. Yes, I know I'm interviewing for one of their likely last spots, but it shows that even if you're rejected through PLIP, you still have a chance through other means. Plus, if you bid on a non-patent part of the firm through OCI, chances are good the needs for non-patent areas are different and they won't examine your credentials in the same way (and likely won't even be examined by the same person at all).

So let's say I get interview with firm X from PLIP.
Let's say I bid on firm X for OCI (if I want to work for them in a non-IP position)

How would callbacks work? Would they give me 2 (one for each) or would they ask me what's going on and have me decide one or the other?

What happens if I get an offer at firm X for IP but I interview with them during OCI?

I can't say personally, as I only had patent-related callbacks. However, I would imagine you would do 2 callbacks, and that you would have different people interviewing you on between patent and general practice. Usually, only patent people interview candidates for patent positions as they know what qualifications they are looking for. Anyone can interview general practice candidates.

Otherwise, I wouldn't fret too much about the specifics; just be thankful that you would be in a position to decide between multiple callbacks, offers, etc.

[bulinus]

There's not advantage to bidding early, as long as you don't miss the deadline, right?

[Jchance]

There's not advantage to bidding early, as long as you don't miss the deadline, right?

Correct. Firms don't see this.

[Anonymous User]

One question: Should I put my 3.1 UGPA on my resume? I'm guessing yes since it's above a 3.0 and would be a red flag to boutiques if I left it off.

Yes, target boutiques, and you can always drop by the hospitality suites of the biglaw firms and give them your resume. I wouldn't worry about the 3.1. Put it on your resume. Emphasize the breadth of your knowledge, which is more important than your GPA.

[Anonymous User]

oh jeebus, school sent out emails about bidding. IT'S ALMOST HERE.

Also, as the poster above, what should my bidding strategy be? Any recommendations welcome.

Me:
T1
just inside 30%
BS in CS
K-JD (related internship works for summers)
Undergrad: top 10 engineering school?? I think?

I think if you want a biglaw litigation gig you could definitely pull it off with those stats. Some boutiques do litigation as well, and you'd be a great candidate for those firms. You might not be patent bar eligible because of the weird rules with CS degrees, so that will affect your eligibility for prosecution positions (unless you're willing to qualify under category B). If you are eligible and want to do pros, you could easily find a prosecution gig, although most of these are at boutiques and many pay less than market rate.

[Anonymous User]

Does the ranking of your bids matter? Does bidding a firm high/low on your list increase/decrease your chance of a screener?

[bamasplitter]

Does the ranking of your bids matter? Does bidding a firm high/low on your list increase/decrease your chance of a screener?

Nope, there is no ranking. Just 32 bids.

[Anonymous User]

So with bidding, does it essentially mean that you choose 32 firms to submit your resume to (i.e., "bid") and then it's up to each of those 32 firms to decide whether or not they want to interview you?

[bamasplitter]

So with bidding, does it essentially mean that you choose 32 firms to submit your resume to (i.e., "bid") and then it's up to each of those 32 firms to decide whether or not they want to interview you?

Basically. Now you should definitely try to be smart with your bidding. Focus on cities that you have ties to, firms that do work related to your background or desire to do pros/lit, etc...

It is also probably smart to consider what firms may be reaches and that kind of thing, but from personal experience even firms that might be a traditionally considered "reach" are probably much more likely in range at PLIP.

I went through all of this last year and was quite happy with my results, so feel free to PM me if you want more detailed info.