How bad is straight P's at H? Forum

[patogordo]

oo oo who am i

[Starships]

Hi All,

Haven't logged in for a while, but thought I would touch base and let people know how things went. Hopefully it will be helpful for someone in the future.

1H in a mushy course in the Spring, so 1H and 9P's for the year.

Interviewed a lot in NY and DC, bunch of callbacks, and offers in both cities. It's just an anecdote, but it seems like HLS goes a long way. Interview broadly, relax, and you will be fine. Even with shit grades, it's very easy.

Signing off from TLS for good. Best of luck to everyone.

[jselson]

I just want to reiterate for folks that at HLS, outside of super-high/super-low grades, outcomes at EIP appear to me to be highly irregular and far more due to "fit."

[nothingtosee]

Hi All,

Haven't logged in for a while, but thought I would touch base and let people know how things went. Hopefully it will be helpful for someone in the future.

1H in a mushy course in the Spring, so 1H and 9P's for the year.

Interviewed a lot in NY and DC, bunch of callbacks, and offers in both cities. It's just an anecdote, but it seems like HLS goes a long way. Interview broadly, relax, and you will be fine. Even with shit grades, it's very easy.

Signing off from TLS for good. Best of luck to everyone.

Thanks for updating this, and I'm glad things worked out for you.

[wwwcol]

I just want to reiterate for folks that at HLS, outside of super-high/super-low grades, outcomes at EIP appear to me to be highly irregular and far more due to "fit."

Ya. Related lay, if you're an Aspie you better have high grades or else enjoy dat PI lifestyle

[baal hadad]

All Ps 160 Gs

[Dookie39]

Straight Ps 160g'd as well. Was kinda concerned going into EIP but prepped well, ended up with a bunch of cbs, cancelled some after getting several offers I liked, and felt that outside of the really top firms, the Harvard name goes far. I also know many others who had marginal/outright bad grades that had great options after EIP.

For anyone in my place in the future: don't worry. Basically, if you have meh grades at H you're not gonna wow any interviewers, but that's ok because lots of great (V~20-50) firms are looking for Harvard kids to hire - you just need to show them why you'll be a great fit/investment. This school gives people great opportunites.

[franticthrowaway]

I'm in the same boat Starships was in 2014. Would it be easier to get a job doing public interest work, or are there pretty much the same expectations as with firms? Also, would it be easier to get a job in a non-NY/DC market with lower grades, or are you pretty much screwed for non-NY/DC if no local ties?

[jingosaur]

I'm in the same boat Starships was in 2014. Would it be easier to get a job doing public interest work, or are there pretty much the same expectations as with firms? Also, would it be easier to get a job in a non-NY/DC market with lower grades, or are you pretty much screwed for non-NY/DC if no local ties?

Most secondary markets don't care at all about your grades at H and only care about ties a fit. DC is super tough with straight Ps but it sometimes happens. I would bid mostly NY and then a few in a secondary market that you feel comfortable in.

[Anonymous User]

A few notes:

1. As others have said, the H name goes a looooonnnng way. If you have straight Ps, you still have very favorable chances of snagging an offer in NYC. And not just an offer--a "prestigious" offer ("prestigious" is in quotations because firm ranking is stupid and wholly irrelevant). I know a bunch of kids at/below median who are working for a V5. Places like Skadden and Davis Polk with massive summer classes have to accept many without top grades.

2. I do think grading at HLS is largely arbitrary. Almost everyone works extremely hard, takes every practice exam, asks their friend for a great outline, and eeks out every small advantage possible so as to maximize grades. The allocation on one's transcript of Ps and Hs feels incredibly random to most. Given this, I would actually recommend taking it relatively easy 1L, going to interesting talks and having fun on weekends. The difference between Cravath and some V100 firm is almost completely meaningless, so why bother?

3. I would only start worrying if you have all Ps AND you aren't personable. The V5 below median people all have two things in common: they are outgoing and present themselves well. I think those qualities are about as important as grades, unless your grades are above median in which case you're an automatic offer almost anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

[quote="Anonymous User"] The difference between Cravath and some V100 firm is almost completely meaningless, so why bother? [quote]


Maybe pushing it a little bit here.

[Anonymous User]

People do strike out at HLS, especially at the lower end of the grade spectrum (although striking out is still possible at the top half, I have seen kids with 4 H's strike out, but that is largely due to poor bidding). However, if you interview well, you can get any V10 except wlrk and sullcrom in NY.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who is going to finish below median put me in the not fungible category. The people I know who made lr, went to watchell, got feeders, etc where the ones who I thought they would be. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prove to bias. However no one thinks there undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical suddenly you get to law and the material becomes untestable. I suspect its more what kids who have never not been 1st tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note who much easier it is to be consistent when there are just 2 grades instead of having to make 7 cutoffs at most schools.

[sayan]

As someone who is going to finish below median put me in the not fungible category. The people I know who made lr, went to watchell, got feeders, etc where the ones who I thought they would be. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prove to bias. However no one thinks there undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical suddenly you get to law and the material becomes untestable. I suspect its more what kids who have never not been 1st tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note who much easier it is to be consistent when there are just 2 grades instead of having to make 7 cutoffs at most schools.

To be honest, the incoherence of your sentences (let alone the flagrant grammatical and spelling errors within them) makes me doubt you went to Harvard. Or maybe you're incredibly drunk.

[stego]

As someone who is going to finish below median put me in the not fungible category. The people I know who made lr, went to watchell, got feeders, etc where the ones who I thought they would be. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prove to bias. However no one thinks there undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical suddenly you get to law and the material becomes untestable. I suspect its more what kids who have never not been 1st tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note who much easier it is to be consistent when there are just 2 grades instead of having to make 7 cutoffs at most schools.

To be honest, the incoherence of your sentences (let alone the flagrant grammatical and spelling errors within them) makes me doubt you went to Harvard. Or maybe you're incredibly drunk.

Meh, if you ignore the spelling and grammar mistakes every sentence makes sense, and I don't even go to Harvard. Wherein lies this incoherence you speak of?

[WestOfTheRest]

As someone who is going to finish below median put me in the not fungible category. The people I know who made lr, went to watchell, got feeders, etc where the ones who I thought they would be. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prove to bias. However no one thinks there undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical suddenly you get to law and the material becomes untestable. I suspect its more what kids who have never not been 1st tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note who much easier it is to be consistent when there are just 2 grades instead of having to make 7 cutoffs at most schools.

To be honest, the incoherence of your sentences (let alone the flagrant grammatical and spelling errors within them) makes me doubt you went to Harvard. Or maybe you're incredibly drunk.

Lol. Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.

[stego]

As someone who is going to finish below median, put me in the category of those who think grades are not fungible. The people I know who made law review, went to Wachtell, got feeders, etc., were the ones I expected to do those things. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prone to bias. However, no one thinks their undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical of the idea that suddenly you get to law school and the material becomes untestable. I suspect the idea that law school grades are arbitrary is something that kids who have never not been first tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note how much easier it is to be consistent when there are just two grades to pick from, instead of having to make seven different grade cutoffs, like they do at most schools.

Do you guys understand what he meant now? It wasn't difficult.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who is going to finish below median put me in the not fungible category. The people I know who made lr, went to watchell, got feeders, etc where the ones who I thought they would be. This is, of course, all anecdotal and prove to bias. However no one thinks there undergrad grades, when we were all killing the curve, were arbitrary. I'm skeptical suddenly you get to law and the material becomes untestable. I suspect its more what kids who have never not been 1st tell themselves.

I've also talked to multiple professors about this and the ones who have taught elsewhere note who much easier it is to be consistent when there are just 2 grades instead of having to make 7 cutoffs at most schools.

To be honest, the incoherence of your sentences (let alone the flagrant grammatical and spelling errors within them) makes me doubt you went to Harvard. Or maybe you're incredibly drunk.

Oh man a spelling and grammar dig! Internet message boards! Though to be clear you aren't the first to doubt I go to Harvard. Also my GPA is about half a point higher on 8 hours v. 3 hours which I attribute to particularly needing grammatical checking and usually not having time to on a 3 hour.

My apologies for the difficult read. I was falling asleep as I was typing and almost aborted because it's almost never worth it to post on tls. Alas I hit send anyway.

Though I don't even have to correct it. Thanks person who did it for me!