Does Cum Laude Matter at All for Firm Lateral Ops Forum

[anon168]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

[redsox550]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

Your theory doesn't make sense. if the brosefs of TLS dont get the top grades someone else will. Your cynical point only works if you assuming people think that enough people from their law school will read the comments about how grades dont matter for the poster to be able to get a higher grade because everyone else stopped. Not gonna happen

[thesealocust]

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

You got me.

Red handed!

I'm trying to sabotage OP's grades to improve my own lateral prospects.

Go lenient on me your honor, I've got a wife and kids.

[84651846190]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

(conspiracy theorist)

[El Pollito]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

#aspielogic

[Old Gregg]

anon168, I think you're one of the best posters here, but you've lost all credibility ITT.

[stratocophic]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

Ah, possibly my favorite TLS-ism (besides aut-ism).

"I'm a soulless aspie striver psychopath, therefore everyone ELSE here must be too! They're all trying to sabotage me!"

Particularly popular in law school waitlist and admission threads, but interesting to see it raise its head in the employment forum.

Edit: Law grades are a 0 sum game. Wouldn't matter if a person who wasn't both at his school and in his graduating class was feeding him misinformation, someone else would wind up in his shoes regardless.

In light of the above, LOL

[Danger Zone]

Holy shit

Just when you think anon168 is a poster you can trust.

[stillwater]

Anon168 is a boomer.

[Detrox]

To the OP or anyone who has an interest in this topic.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I think we can all agree with the following:

1. that the majority of TLS poster are for the most part self-interested.
2. that about 99% of the more active posters are either current law students, recent grads, or very junior associates
3. that most people here will concede, if not agree, that grades matter but apparently take rather strong exception to exactly how much they matter - from very little to quite a bit.

Ok, so if you're a poster on this thread in response to the OP and being a rational self-interested individual, wouldn't you either counsel the OP that either (1) grades do not matter or matter very little so don't worry about them or (2) even if they do matter don't bother worrying about your grades cuz it just won't really make a difference down the line unless you want to work for a douche-bag firm.

Why? Because in this economy everyone (either as a lateral or as a recent grad) is competing for the same ever shrinking pool of employment opportunities and no matter what Kool-Aid you want to drink you better believe that grades is, at a minimum, one signal employers look at to determine whether to call you in for an interview or consider you for an employment offer post-interview (everything else being equal).

So if a person can sabotage potential competitors' resume and paper-attributes to future employers, then shit in this economy you better take that chance when you can get it.

Just something to think about as one scrolls through these responses.

I'm going to go ahead and say that 1. grades do matter for lateral opportunities, and because Anon168 knows this, 2. he's making the worst possible arguments to support that conclusion. Thus, everyone discredits his points and decides to abandon effort entirely. 3. ??????? 4. Anon168 gets all the lateral jobs and profit.

[sparty99]

YOU BETTER TAKE THOSE EASY CLASSES AND MAINTAIN THAT HIGH GPA....DON'T WORRY ABOUT TAKING CLASSES TO PLEASE YOUR FIRM. YOU CAN BUY A HORNBOOK. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT THAT NUMBER.

[anon168]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

[Anonymous User]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

[84651846190]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

I think his/her point was that grades matter, not that they are dispositive. I'd take top 1/3 from a T10 with a CS/EE degree over top 10% from a T10 with a BA in Chicano Studies any day.

[Anonymous User]

Others are full of chill, fratty bros who pwn the Brooklyn bar scene.

hear hear...

[Anonymous User]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

I think his/her point was that grades matter, not that they are dispositive. I'd take top 1/3 from a T10 with a CS/EE degree over top 10% from a T10 with a BA in Chicano Studies any day.

Anon Above--I think my existence (and the existence of many others) shows that while grades matter, they don't matter quite as much as anon168 thinks. I think, beyond a certain level, for most firms, grades don't mean shit. For most firms, if you're coming from a top law school, I think that level tends to be at around a B average.

For places like Williams & Connolly, no way. But even at Gibson... they gave an offer to a friend of mine with a 2.7 average.

[KaNa1986]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

Well, enjoy Skadden/Davis Polk.

[stillwater]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

Well, enjoy Skadden/Davis Polk.

and thats bad why?

[Anonymous User]

Feel free to make fun of me, call me old, stupid, cynical or some combo of all three, but you know what is really funny?

People have actually PM'd me about doing this before I posted.

Anyway, feel free to take your pot shots. Those that know me know I have no agendas here, except hopefully to be a resource.

Good luck to whomever is still reading and worrying about their grades.

Meh, I don't think you have an agenda. I just think you're wrong.

--Poster with a B average and two V5 lateral offers.

Well, enjoy Skadden/Davis Polk.

LOL you have no clue.

--Anon Above.

[Anonymous User]

They can. Latham outright rejected be solely because of my grades. I went to Berkeley and didn't have enough HHs to meet their firm-wide grade cutoff. I received mostly HHs during my first year, but very few during my 2L and 3L years.

I did get offers at other V10 firms, and I ended up lateralling to one of them.

[84651846190]

They can. Latham outright rejected be solely because of my grades. I went to Berkeley and didn't have enough HHs to meet their firm-wide grade cutoff. I received mostly HHs during my first year, but very few during my 2L and 3L years.

I did get offers at other V10 firms, and I ended up lateralling to one of them.

Again, going back to my earlier point, it's not accurate to say "Latham" outright rejected you solely because of grades. It was the partner in charge of making hiring decisions who did this. Who knows what would have happened had your application been considered by someone else at Latham who didn't care as much about grades. In most cases, the importance of grades is a person by person determination, not a firm by firm one.

[Old Gregg]

They can. Latham outright rejected be solely because of my grades. I went to Berkeley and didn't have enough HHs to meet their firm-wide grade cutoff. I received mostly HHs during my first year, but very few during my 2L and 3L years.

I did get offers at other V10 firms, and I ended up lateralling to one of them.

Again, going back to my earlier point, it's not accurate to say "Latham" outright rejected you solely because of grades. It was the partner in charge of making hiring decisions who did this. Who knows what would have happened had your application been considered by someone else at Latham who didn't care as much about grades. In most cases, the importance of grades is a person by person determination, not a firm by firm one.

...and I can't imagine Latham having a firm-wide grade cut-off that's particularly onerous for anyone at a top law school to meet.

[stratocophic]

Let's assume for 10 seconds that grades really are suuuper important for lateralling.

Reminder to anyone who's considering sabotaging people by spreading misinformation: if you do it, someone else with the same GPA will step into the shoes vacated by the slacker. I gave up and kicked back for my 2L and 3L years - the GPA points I sacrificed didn't just disappear into thin air. Grades are zero sum, and telling people that grades don't matter to try to get a leg up won't help *you* because someone else will just end up with those same grades. And if you're aspie enough to start splitting hairs and saying "people at the bottom of the class will benefit more and the top will be hurt, why the average GPA of the class could go down by 0.0005!", then more power to you and good luck with interviews - you'll get in everywhere you apply.

Now, back to the real world - if you think the above is dumb and that nobody intelligent would spread that specific misinformation because you realized that telling one specific person not to try hard will just result in a fungible competitor taking that person's place (or even better, you know that anyone who didn't realize that is probably too stupid to be someone you need to worry about), you now understand why people are loling at anon168's screed.

[84651846190]

They can. Latham outright rejected be solely because of my grades. I went to Berkeley and didn't have enough HHs to meet their firm-wide grade cutoff. I received mostly HHs during my first year, but very few during my 2L and 3L years.

I did get offers at other V10 firms, and I ended up lateralling to one of them.

Again, going back to my earlier point, it's not accurate to say "Latham" outright rejected you solely because of grades. It was the partner in charge of making hiring decisions who did this. Who knows what would have happened had your application been considered by someone else at Latham who didn't care as much about grades. In most cases, the importance of grades is a person by person determination, not a firm by firm one.

...and I can't imagine Latham having a firm-wide grade cut-off that's particularly onerous for anyone at a top law school to meet.

Not sure if srs, but "firm-wide grade cut-offs" are usually for law students, not laterals. Again, what the fuck is the management committee of a firm going to do if one of its satellite offices wants to hire someone slightly below the firm's grade cutoff as a lateral? Usually nothing.

[Old Gregg]

They can. Latham outright rejected be solely because of my grades. I went to Berkeley and didn't have enough HHs to meet their firm-wide grade cutoff. I received mostly HHs during my first year, but very few during my 2L and 3L years.

I did get offers at other V10 firms, and I ended up lateralling to one of them.

Again, going back to my earlier point, it's not accurate to say "Latham" outright rejected you solely because of grades. It was the partner in charge of making hiring decisions who did this. Who knows what would have happened had your application been considered by someone else at Latham who didn't care as much about grades. In most cases, the importance of grades is a person by person determination, not a firm by firm one.

...and I can't imagine Latham having a firm-wide grade cut-off that's particularly onerous for anyone at a top law school to meet.

Not sure if srs, but "firm-wide grade cut-offs" are usually for law students, not laterals. Again, what the fuck is the management committee of a firm going to do if one of its satellite offices wants to hire someone slightly below the firm's grade cutoff as a lateral? Usually nothing.

Agreed on all points.