Not even a good faith provision? Isn't that an implied provision in all employment contracts, whether they are at-will or not?Danger Zone wrote:I probably could have phrased that more artfully, since there can still be a contract on other conditions, but what I meant was if an employment relationship is at-will, then there is no enforceable provision regarding termination of employment.
Can I back out of my job acceptance? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
- unc0mm0n1
- Posts: 1713
- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:06 pm
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
No, not really. It's more like a term sheet with no provision about length of employment.Void wrote:A letter is an offer. If OP confirms in writing its an enforceable agreement that he will work for $X for Y amount of time (assuming those terms are in the letter). But like I said, he can breach because they would have no remedy. They obviously won't like him any more, but I think OP understood that.NYstate wrote:I thought an offer letter was basically you accepting the terms of employment salary and benefits. It isn't an employment contract. Anyway it doesn't matter because he can quit at any time.Void wrote:Sorry to get all legal nerd on you, bu how is it not breach of contract? It certainly is. He promised to work, in exchange for their promise to pay him. His decision not to work is failed performance and a breach. But it's an efficient breach and the firm couldnt really get any remedy.cynthiad wrote:It's not illegal or a breach of contract or anything, all it will hurt is your professional reputation.
OP: does the offer letter say anything about you terminating the agreement? I would be surprised if it has anything more than a notice period, if that.
-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Never said it did. I said because there are no damages, breach is efficient.Blessedassurance wrote:an efficient breach does not preclude recovery for damages.Void wrote:I love this classic TLS "you're an idiot but I'm too badass to explain why" response.Blessedassurance wrote:
i don't think you understand how an efficient breach relates to damages, good sir.
eta: in general, you have no idea what you're talking about
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
At will employment means that your employer can fire you at any point, for any reason, as long as it's not an illegal reason (race, sex, national origin, etc.). They can fire you if they don't like your tie or you don't bring them coffee in the morning. So I don't think good faith comes into it.unc0mm0n1 wrote:Not even a good faith provision? Isn't that an implied provision in all employment contracts, whether they are at-will or not?Danger Zone wrote:I probably could have phrased that more artfully, since there can still be a contract on other conditions, but what I meant was if an employment relationship is at-will, then there is no enforceable provision regarding termination of employment.
- Blessedassurance
- Posts: 2091
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:42 pm
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Void wrote: Never said it did. I said because there are no damages, breach is efficient.
Note the difference between the first quote and the bolded in the second quote. those are two different propositions.Original Quote wrote: He promised to work, in exchange for their promise to pay him. His decision not to work is failed performance and a breach. But it's an efficient breach and the firm couldnt really get any remedy.
See http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/efficient_breach
i didn't wanna get into it because it's irrelevant to the larger point that op can do whatever he/she wants. do you think op will have a cause of action if the firm rescinded his offer on economic grounds?
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 8258
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Good faith apparently matters to this type of dispute in a handful of states. Regardless, this is really not what the OP was looking to discuss, if I had to guess.A. Nony Mouse wrote:At will employment means that your employer can fire you at any point, for any reason, as long as it's not an illegal reason (race, sex, national origin, etc.). They can fire you if they don't like your tie or you don't bring them coffee in the morning. So I don't think good faith comes into it.unc0mm0n1 wrote:Not even a good faith provision? Isn't that an implied provision in all employment contracts, whether they are at-will or not?Danger Zone wrote:I probably could have phrased that more artfully, since there can still be a contract on other conditions, but what I meant was if an employment relationship is at-will, then there is no enforceable provision regarding termination of employment.
- homestyle28
- Posts: 2362
- Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:48 pm
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Did none of you contract nerds take employment law? It's called at-will employment, terminable by either party at any time. I'd bet your offer letter even specifically says you'll be an at-will employee. You're fine. K rules don't apply in employment law.
-
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:48 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Setting aside all the zaniness about efficient breaches and blah blah blah, ^ this. I would especially try to have the interview moved forward if at all possible. I don't really think it matters a whole lot if the offer is for at-will employment or not, you really don't want to be that guy who accepts an offer only to immediately back out. The legal community isn't all that large, and such actions can certainly have an adverse impact on your reputation.Anonymous User wrote:1. Have you contacted the firm you have an offer with and asked them to extend the deadline?
2. Have you contacted the firm you have an interview with and asked them if they can move your interview forward?
I would do either/both of those two things before I signed that paper.
-
- Posts: 432509
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Some people were curious to what the offer says. At no point does it mention at-will employment. It basically says it's an offer for XXX amount, starting XXX month subject to some stuff (graduating, pre-employment checks), tells me which state bar I have to take, lays out benefits like bar stipend and moving expenses and then tells me how long the offer will be open for and tells me they hope I let them know as soon as possible. It doesn't say anything like this is binding or permanent. The more I look at it the more I agree with what everyone originally was saying that breaking this isn't a big deal.
- wiseowl
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:38 pm
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
My offer letter back in the day was pretty explicit that it was not a contract.
Regardless of this silly thread derailment, do what's best for you, OP. The hiring partner and the recruiting contact will be irritated for a few minutes and then you'll be forgotten. The "legal community is not that large" old wives' tale is ridiculous, particularly in different practice areas and different geographical regions.
Be careful though not to count chickens before they hatch.
Regardless of this silly thread derailment, do what's best for you, OP. The hiring partner and the recruiting contact will be irritated for a few minutes and then you'll be forgotten. The "legal community is not that large" old wives' tale is ridiculous, particularly in different practice areas and different geographical regions.
Be careful though not to count chickens before they hatch.
-
- Posts: 432509
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Exactly that's why no matter what, if they don't extend the deadline I'm accepting the offer. I just don't think it'll hurt me too much because I'll be in a different practice area in a different area. I'm sure the firm only looks out for themselves so I'll be doing the same thing.wiseowl wrote:My offer letter back in the day was pretty explicit that it was not a contract.
Regardless of this silly thread derailment, do what's best for you, OP. The hiring partner and the recruiting contact will be irritated for a few minutes and then you'll be forgotten. The "legal community is not that large" old wives' tale is ridiculous, particularly in different practice areas and different geographical regions.
Be careful though not to count chickens before they hatch.
- kalvano
- Posts: 11951
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Anonymous User wrote:Some people were curious to what the offer says. At no point does it mention at-will employment. It basically says it's an offer for XXX amount, starting XXX month subject to some stuff (graduating, pre-employment checks), tells me which state bar I have to take, lays out benefits like bar stipend and moving expenses and then tells me how long the offer will be open for and tells me they hope I let them know as soon as possible. It doesn't say anything like this is binding or permanent. The more I look at it the more I agree with what everyone originally was saying that breaking this isn't a big deal.
That's because at-will employment cuts both ways. It's not an employment contract, it's the terms of employment with them if you choose to accept. Even by signing it, you're still at-will and can quit any time you like. All the offer is is the terms of employment should you choose to accept.
-
- Posts: 432509
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Yeah I see that now. Thanks Kalvano and everyone else. I'll be accepting the offer terms if I don't get the extension and if I get my dream job I'll go there.kalvano wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Some people were curious to what the offer says. At no point does it mention at-will employment. It basically says it's an offer for XXX amount, starting XXX month subject to some stuff (graduating, pre-employment checks), tells me which state bar I have to take, lays out benefits like bar stipend and moving expenses and then tells me how long the offer will be open for and tells me they hope I let them know as soon as possible. It doesn't say anything like this is binding or permanent. The more I look at it the more I agree with what everyone originally was saying that breaking this isn't a big deal.
That's because at-will employment cuts both ways. It's not an employment contract, it's the terms of employment with them if you choose to accept. Even by signing it, you're still at-will and can quit any time you like. All the offer is is the terms of employment should you choose to accept.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
I admit that I worded it poorly the first time, but I never meant that an efficient breach somehow means that an employer can collect damages. I meant what I said here:Blessedassurance wrote:Void wrote: Never said it did. I said because there are no damages, breach is efficient.Note the difference between the first quote and the bolded in the second quote. those are two different propositions.Original Quote wrote: He promised to work, in exchange for their promise to pay him. His decision not to work is failed performance and a breach. But it's an efficient breach and the firm couldnt really get any remedy.
See http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/efficient_breach
i didn't wanna get into it because it's irrelevant to the larger point that op can do whatever he/she wants. do you think op will have a cause of action if the firm rescinded his offer on economic grounds?
But thanks so much for being such a dickwolf about it.Void wrote:Also, an efficient breach = when the benefit of breaching outweighs the cost of liability. Where liability is $0 and benefit is a job you'd prefer, breach is efficient.
-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
Yes, they do. http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... tract.htmlhomestyle28 wrote: K rules don't apply in employment law.
At-will employment is the norm, but if you have a contract specifying durational term you don't have at-will employment. That said, I wrongly assumed this was the situation here because my initial offer letter specified a one-year term.
Ok I've derailed this thread enough.
-
- Posts: 8258
- Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
?Void wrote: But thanks so much for being such a dickwolf about it.

-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Can I back out of my job acceptance?
--ImageRemoved--Danger Zone wrote:?Void wrote: But thanks so much for being such a dickwolf about it.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login