HLS EIP 2013 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I think you guys need to calm down with this ties talk. I had decent grades but nowhere near what some of you people have (4 Hs) and I got offers from the top three firms in Texas, Top two firms in Boston, Top two firms in Chicago, Top firm in an international market and one of the top firms in Cali. I only had realistic ties to one of those places all the other were B.S. ties that I crafted in to a coherent stories. A friend of mine had p's an LP and an H, she ended up with two V20 offers and a job in non-major city where she had no ties. You go to HLS, people want to hire you, especially with those grades. All you have to do is give them a reason. Don't be awkward, have a good reason to be in the market you want and relax. Most of my EIP interviews didn't even get to law stuff. Everyone will be fine.

Only one thing I'd suggest. Don't only bid D.C., I was shut out so were a few of my friends with good grades.

[Wonk]

I did EIP last summer. No ties to Boston, 3H/7P, no work experience. Got callbacks from every firm in Boston except for Ropes and Latham and received offers from all the callbacks I went on.

...You'll be fine.

Edited to add: When they asked me, "Why Boston?" I just listed things I liked about the city and explained why I didn't want to go home. Everyone asked me "Why Boston?" but no one seemed particularly paranoid about me running back home (they like Boston, too, and think everyone should).

Are you Justice Homes from last year's EIP thread? I was just looking through trying to figure out how things turned out for that guy/girl since we have the same grades and target market.

[PMan99]

People who are in the 3.8+ range really don't need to be worrying at all about Boston or NY ties or not. This holds true for lower grades (and some other markets) as well but given that multiple people have posted with very high grades wondering about Boston I'd thought I'd just put that out there.

[Anonymous User]

I received 1H and 9Ps. I'm a K-JD and was a science major in undergrad. I'm doing a lot of IP work in-house at a large, very well-known corporation this summer. I just started researching firms, but can someone tell me which firms I should be targeting and which firms I may have a smaller, but decent chance at?

[Anonymous User]

I received 1H and 9Ps. I'm a K-JD and was a science major in undergrad. I'm doing a lot of IP work in-house at a large, very well-known corporation this summer. I just started researching firms, but can someone tell me which firms I should be targeting and which firms I may have a smaller, but decent chance at?

Do you wanna do IP? If so, that'll make your life a lot easier in terms of EIP; you might be outclassed at some of the big IP firms but I'd imagine you could do well in some of the IP offices of the generic megafirms. My advice would be to leverage the bejeezus out of the IP angle. I'm not an IP person so I don't really know much about that market, but I know that IP is hella desirable.

[Anonymous User]

Median (DS and an H 1st semester, an H this semester), one year WE, non-URM, thinking lit, only meh at interviewing (but I've been working hard at it, and should be pretty competent when the time comes), prestigious undergrad.

NY is my primary market; I find DC really appealing but I know it's a tough nut to crack with significantly better credentials than what I've got; I'd rather work there than Boston though (my other option for secondary market). Should I go for DC at all? And what should my NY bidlist look like?

Thanks!

I'm pretty much like you, but a bit worse off. DS and H 1st semester, H 2nd semester, non-URM, crappy interviewer, K-JD, prestigious but non-Ivy undergrad. NYC is my dream market; what should I be considering reach and what's safe (or safe-ish) there?

--Johnny Cage

From the cw the only real reaches would be Wachtell and S&C. Cravath and the rest have been known to go to median or, in some cases, lower. I can't tell you what's safe because I'm not sure any particular firm is really "safe" at median, but the usual advice would apply: firms with large summer classes and lots of interview slots. Don't blow any of them off and work on improving your interview skills from bad to mediocre and you'll get 160k in NY. The mega firms that are taking 100+ people to callbacks (DPW, Cleary, Paul Weiss, etc.) are all good to aim for.

Thanks for your advice. NYC really is my target market (I wanna end up there for personal reasons, and the city really appeals to me), and I'm starting to think maybe I should go all in for NYC. Is this a good/bad idea? I came up with a tentative NYC-only bidlist last night, separated into about three bands (ones I know I am for sure bidding on, ones I'll probably bid on, and then those I'm "meh" on) that could fill up all 35 slots. I'd appreciate some constructive criticism/lavish praise/scathing mockery/etc:

"Green" Band (Definite bids, alphabetical order): Boies, Chadbourne, Cadwalader, Cravath Cleary Skadden Willkie Paul Weiss Schulte Milbank Covington DPW Patterson Ropes Kirkland Kramer Simpson (total of 16):

"Blue" Band (Probable bids, alphabetically): Debevoise Herbert Smith Gibson Weil Vinson Seward Shearman Proskauer Katten Kasowitz (total of 11)

"Yellow" Band (Bids I'm on the fence about; I might replace these with Boston or DC bids but I'm honestly not sure): Brown Rudnick, Cahill, Freshfields, Fried Frank, Kaye Scholer, Latham, Lowenstein Sandler, Sidley (total of

--Johnny Cage

[madvillain]

.

[PMan99]

I received 1H and 9Ps. I'm a K-JD and was a science major in undergrad. I'm doing a lot of IP work in-house at a large, very well-known corporation this summer. I just started researching firms, but can someone tell me which firms I should be targeting and which firms I may have a smaller, but decent chance at?

Can't say unless you know what market you want 1H-9P isn't an enviable place but it's still fine for most markets if you have ties there. Also, if your degree is EE/CS or something otherwise in demand it'll be much easier for you. Unsure how people with, say, a Chem BS fared.

[PMan99]

Thanks for your advice. NYC really is my target market (I wanna end up there for personal reasons, and the city really appeals to me), and I'm starting to think maybe I should go all in for NYC. Is this a good/bad idea? I came up with a tentative NYC-only bidlist last night, separated into about three bands (ones I know I am for sure bidding on, ones I'll probably bid on, and then those I'm "meh" on) that could fill up all 35 slots. I'd appreciate some constructive criticism/lavish praise/scathing mockery/etc:

"Green" Band (Definite bids, alphabetical order): Boies, Chadbourne, Cadwalader, Cravath Cleary Skadden Willkie Paul Weiss Schulte Milbank Covington DPW Patterson Ropes Kirkland Kramer Simpson (total of 16):

"Blue" Band (Probable bids, alphabetically): Debevoise Herbert Smith Gibson Weil Vinson Seward Shearman Proskauer Katten Kasowitz (total of 11)

"Yellow" Band (Bids I'm on the fence about; I might replace these with Boston or DC bids but I'm honestly not sure): Brown Rudnick, Cahill, Freshfields, Fried Frank, Kaye Scholer, Latham, Lowenstein Sandler, Sidley (total of

--Johnny Cage

Off the top off my head your Green band looks OK for targets or mild reaches. I'd go through past EIP threads and make your "Blue" firms ones that are known to be minimally or non grade selective (so as opposed to reaching down to median on occasion like Cravath, they really don't care). I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what would qualify although I think you already have some on there (eg Proskauer or IIRC Milbank).

[Anonymous User]

I'm the poster with 1H/9P.

I have a chem degree. I'm definitely interested in IP lit, but I'm open to everything else, especially transactional work, too. If it makes EIP easier, then I will focus on playing up the IP angle. I'm looking only at NYC firms since I don't really have any ties to other markets and my grades put me below median. What range of firms should I target, and which ones are reaches? Any firms in particular?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Quinn CBs (LA office) coming out already.

--Lollipop

[madvillain]

Lollipop is awesome

[Anonymous User]

Quinn CBs (LA office) coming out already.

--Lollipop

thanks

[itbdvorm]

Median (DS and an H 1st semester, an H this semester), one year WE, non-URM, thinking lit, only meh at interviewing (but I've been working hard at it, and should be pretty competent when the time comes), prestigious undergrad.

NY is my primary market; I find DC really appealing but I know it's a tough nut to crack with significantly better credentials than what I've got; I'd rather work there than Boston though (my other option for secondary market). Should I go for DC at all? And what should my NY bidlist look like?

Thanks!

I'm pretty much like you, but a bit worse off. DS and H 1st semester, H 2nd semester, non-URM, crappy interviewer, K-JD, prestigious but non-Ivy undergrad. NYC is my dream market; what should I be considering reach and what's safe (or safe-ish) there?

--Johnny Cage

From the cw the only real reaches would be Wachtell and S&C. Cravath and the rest have been known to go to median or, in some cases, lower. I can't tell you what's safe because I'm not sure any particular firm is really "safe" at median, but the usual advice would apply: firms with large summer classes and lots of interview slots. Don't blow any of them off and work on improving your interview skills from bad to mediocre and you'll get 160k in NY. The mega firms that are taking 100+ people to callbacks (DPW, Cleary, Paul Weiss, etc.) are all good to aim for.

Thanks for your advice. NYC really is my target market (I wanna end up there for personal reasons, and the city really appeals to me), and I'm starting to think maybe I should go all in for NYC. Is this a good/bad idea? I came up with a tentative NYC-only bidlist last night, separated into about three bands (ones I know I am for sure bidding on, ones I'll probably bid on, and then those I'm "meh" on) that could fill up all 35 slots. I'd appreciate some constructive criticism/lavish praise/scathing mockery/etc:

"Green" Band (Definite bids, alphabetical order): Boies, Chadbourne, Cadwalader, Cravath Cleary Skadden Willkie Paul Weiss Schulte Milbank Covington DPW Patterson Ropes Kirkland Kramer Simpson (total of 16):

"Blue" Band (Probable bids, alphabetically): Debevoise Herbert Smith Gibson Weil Vinson Seward Shearman Proskauer Katten Kasowitz (total of 11)

"Yellow" Band (Bids I'm on the fence about; I might replace these with Boston or DC bids but I'm honestly not sure): Brown Rudnick, Cahill, Freshfields, Fried Frank, Kaye Scholer, Latham, Lowenstein Sandler, Sidley (total of

--Johnny Cage

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

[Anonymous User]

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

Not that anon but as long as you're here want to offer a thought on how much "easier" it is for Harvard students to land a job at your firm versus students at other T14s?
Is the advantage primarily that you will dip a bit lower into the grade pool than at other schools?
What do you view median as?
How do you view someone with all Ps?

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Can I ask, as an actual attorney curious about this thread, how you came about creating this list? Odd to me to see firms like Willkie, Schulte, Milbank, Patterson, Kirkland NY, Kramer in your "Green" Band, firms like Debeoivse and Weil in your "Blue" Band (and Herbert Smith and Seward) and firms like Latham and, to a lesser extent, Cahill in your "Yellow" Band...

Honestly, a lot of it is just looking at numbers from Harvard's OCI data and getting a sense of which tend to interview a lot and callback a lot. This doesn't really have to do a whole lot with personal preference or prestige (I'd much rather be at some of the firms in "lower" bands than at others), and it's really just my own way of gauging how likely I am to bid that firm when the time comes. I'm trying to err on the side of conservative, 'cause I am pretty dang median.

Also, I threw it together last night while half-asleep so it's subject to change.

Seconding what anon above me said; any advice you feel like giving us HLS'ers would be gratefully appreciated.

-J. Cage

[Anonymous User]

5H's/5P's, urm

Chances at Cravath?

Also, is it crazy to bid some Cali firms with no ties?

[Anonymous User]

5H's/5P's, urm

Chances at Cravath?

Also, is it crazy to bid some Cali firms with no ties?

On the last point, I really hope it's not crazy. I'm not a(n) URM, although I've been told I'm a good interviewer and am more than K-JD, and have 5Hs/5Ps. I plan on bidding exclusively on San Francisco and Los Angeles...

MC Rove

[Person1111]

5H's/5P's, urm

Chances at Cravath?

Also, is it crazy to bid some Cali firms with no ties?

Your grades will not disqualify you from Cravath, or really from any firm in NY except maybe WLRK. Whether or not you get an offer will turn almost entirely on how well you interview and click with the attorneys with whom you speak.

Bidding a few CA firms with no ties sounds like a bad idea unless you have a plausible narrative for why you want those firms.

[Anonymous User]

Bidding a few CA firms with no ties sounds like a bad idea unless you have a plausible narrative for why you want those firms.

Is this right? How plausible of an explanation is a love for the area, keenness for the practice group(s), S.A.D., and no real home market?

MC Rove

[Anonymous User]

Bidding a few CA firms with no ties sounds like a bad idea unless you have a plausible narrative for why you want those firms.

Is this right? How plausible of an explanation is a love for the area, keenness for the practice group(s), S.A.D., and no real home market?

MC Rove

How are you selling it? "I read about it in a magazine, love the Lakers, and the weather." or "I'm from Wyoming but have no intention of going back, of the major markets this one is my first choice because it's closest to my family and I've been coming here since I was six." You didn't summer there this summer by chance? Honestly ask yourself if I was on the other side of the table would I buy this bullshit.

[Anonymous User]

How do you apply to Quinn?

Quinn CBs (LA office) coming out already.

--Lollipop

[Anonymous User]

If you have 5+ H's, should you try to put a few V15-V50 firms (which usually have low interview/bid ratio) into top 10 slots on your bidding list? Or is putting them in the 15th-35th slots sufficient for getting interviews at some of those V15-V50 firms?

[Anonymous User]

If you have 5+ H's, should you try to put a few V15-V50 firms (which usually have low interview/bid ratio) into top 10 slots on your bidding list? Or is putting them in the 15th-35th slots sufficient for getting interviews at some of those V15-V50 firms?

There is a post in last years thread about proper bid lists. Basically decide on your top 35 firms. Rank from hardest to get an interview to easiest. Start with that as your template. Move around slightly to make sure you get any firms you can't live without and have a few (or plenty depending on grades/risk aversion) safeties squarely in the zone of definitely getting an interview.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all. Another poster here. Almost exact stats as Lollipop: 6H/4P, K-JD. Relatively prestigious undergrad, but not an Ivy/nothing too high in the list.

The thing is I have a lot of connections to NY, but where I really want to be is in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco region. I love the area and visit friends there several times a year. I see myself living there long-term and love the tech/patent work going down there. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no connections there. Can anyone advise me on how to bid/spin my story? Would I be an idiot to go all-out bidding for SF?

- Pegasus