Loyola PLIP 2013: Brace yourselves... Forum

[Jsa725]

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[auds1008]

when in doubt.. take lit over pros.. it's easier to go from lit to pros if lit doesn't work out

[target]

when in doubt.. take lit over pros.. it's easier to go from lit to pros if lit doesn't work out

Can you elaborate? I always thought it is the other way around.

[Jsa725]

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[dood]

#1 advice: I don't care who you are, if you registered then buy airline tickets now and pay the extra $15 for cancellation rights. You will save $200. In the off-chance that you don't get interviews, you lose $15.
#2 advice: whatever hotel "discount" they offer you isn't that great of a deal. Book a nearby room in advance.
#2 advice: do your research. Some firms hire for prosecution only. Some firms hire for litigation only. Find out which one, and when they interview you, say "I ONLY want to do (what this firm does) and I'm not really interested in (the other one)."

From Loyola 2012:
I have BS EE degree and 1 years WE
My LS was a T20 and my GPA was around 50% and I was able to secure 10 interviews and 2 callbacks.

Also do research about what types of patent work the firm does at that office. After I bid on a firm I realized they had literally zero EE/CS doods at that office. No surprised when I didn't get a preselect.

YEAH DO THIS. I actually got a preselect with zero ME/EE doods in that office....that interview ended in 2 min.

[Jsa725]

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[chem]

Tagging!

I'll do the research eventually, but off the top of anyones head do you know of offices in D.C./Nor Cal that have anything to do with chemistry/biochem/chemical engineering?

[Jsa725]

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[auds1008]

when in doubt.. take lit over pros.. it's easier to go from lit to pros if lit doesn't work out

Can you elaborate? I always thought it is the other way around.

This. Please. Also, what type of questions do typical interviewers at PlIP ask for people seeking litigation? Do they ask IP lit specific questions or just the typical "lets make sure this guy is not a fucktard & is reasonably likable" type of questions?

Let me start out by saying i currently work in litigation and have only worked on prosecution for a tech company. I wanted to do both litigation and prosecution but I was told that no one, after doing both 2 or 3 years, can still do both. You eventually will have to choose one so I chose litigation and I don't regret it. With that in mind, my response may be slightly biased and limited on prosecution and i apologize for any mischaracterization of the work in prosecution.

To me, litigation provides more legal training and so puts you in a better position when you're thinking about exit options couple years down the road. As a litigator, you will learn to write better, work efficiently both independently and in team settings, adapt to various deadlines, strategize against upcoming battles, etc. As far as I know, in prosecution, you have set deadlines on when to respond to office actions. Your response is exclusively for the examiner, maybe sometimes for your clients and so writing is not as important. Most of the time prosecution are working independently. You may need to shuffle around your work in anticipation of the incoming office actions but it's not something that would be of much surprise to you.

That said, the flip side is that the hours in litigation are longer and schedules will vary week to week, or even day to day, whereas prosecution is much more stable. As an example, my schedule about 2 months during preparation for trial was usually 9am to 12-4am. I've also had the opportunity to travel significantly. There was once I was called to travel coast to coast to do discovery the very next day.

A more positive light of litigation comes when you're forced to communicate with people and so allowing you to build a greater network. This also goes to provide you with more exit options. The people you speak to and work with will range from support staff to opposing counsels, etc. You simply have to learn to recognize your audience and communicate better. This benefits you in every shape or form.

Bottom line, I think there is more transferable skills that can be carried over from litigation to prosecution, than the other way around. For example, you may not be drafting a response but you will go through the whole exercise of reading office actions, responses or any file history to figure out claim construction.

With all these said, at least what I can think of at the moment, I think litigation prepares you better for the future.

[auds1008]

when in doubt.. take lit over pros.. it's easier to go from lit to pros if lit doesn't work out

Can you elaborate? I always thought it is the other way around.

This. Please. Also, what type of questions do typical interviewers at PlIP ask for people seeking litigation? Do they ask IP lit specific questions or just the typical "lets make sure this guy is not a fucktard & is reasonably likable" type of questions?

sorry, forgot about your questions. people in litigation value "fit" more than expertise, i think, simply because you're spending great amount of time with one another when a deadline or trial is up. they want to make sure that they can do work/hang out with you at 3am when the team is trying to meet the deadline. so, just the latter type of questions.

[Jsa725]

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[r6_philly]

2) Use all of your bids. You'll have more bids than you need. No point in holding back. Bid more liberally than you'd otherwise think is in your expected range. For whatever reason, I got interviews at firms at PLIP that I could not get at my school's OCI. If you don't get an interview at PLIP, bid again at OCI.

If you like a firm, bid at both places. You are going to interview with different people and one doesn't preclude the other (my exp. last year).

If you're not 100% sold on IP, pick a firm that will allow you to work in non-IP areas. I know it's a tough job market and IP is an area in demand, but honestly you never know what you'll eventually want to do. If you go to Fish/Finnegan/Kenyon/Knobbe, you're committing yourself to IP, for better or for worse. It's not always easy to know beforehand what you're getting yourself into. That being said, if you are 100% IP, then go all out. It's a wonderful time to be interested in IP.

Many firms segregate their summers: IP summers are not considered for non-IP positions. So this is a tough one. If you mention you want to try non-IP work before offer, you may not get it. If you go in with the idea that you may want to try something out and don't ask, you may be dissappointed. If you go to a school that can place you in non-IP positions, then aim for non-IP work at OCI and focus on IP work at PLIP. Try to do CBs around the same time and make decision with offers from both kind of CBs. If you are go to a school that don't usually place into non-IP SAs, then just because you land a SA at a GP firm at PLIP doesn't mean you will have a shot into doing other departments at the firm.

[r6_philly]

Tagging!

I'll do the research eventually, but off the top of anyones head do you know of offices in D.C./Nor Cal that have anything to do with chemistry/biochem/chemical engineering?

I believe so, check the OP for previous PLIP links ... IIRC, people discussed which offices they interviewed with as well as what their UG degree was in.

Also remember hiring is heavily dependent on a 24 month forecast needs/demand at the firm, so just because an office that does 90 percent bio work doesn't mean they are not at PLIP looking to only hire EE guys (actual experience). And I don't recall interviewer at PLIP or at the callbacks about what they are looking for. Bid broadly, if they think you are a decent candidate you will at least get a preselect.

[Agent]

I'll argue that the bold text does not apply to bio candidates (I'm not sure about Chem and ChemE). But it sounds right for EE candidates.

Tagging!

I'll do the research eventually, but off the top of anyones head do you know of offices in D.C./Nor Cal that have anything to do with chemistry/biochem/chemical engineering?

I believe so, check the OP for previous PLIP links ... IIRC, people discussed which offices they interviewed with as well as what their UG degree was in.

Also remember hiring is heavily dependent on a 24 month forecast needs/demand at the firm, so just because an office that does 90 percent bio work doesn't mean they are not at PLIP looking to only hire EE guys (actual experience). And I don't recall interviewer at PLIP or at the callbacks about what they are looking for. Bid broadly, if they think you are a decent candidate you will at least get a preselect.

[Jsa725]

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[Agent]

Since you're not patent bar eligible (and not EE), I recommend spending more time choosing your bids. Try to focus on firms whose work might actually fit your background. Yes, avoid IP boutiques.

I'll argue that the bold text does not apply to bio candidates (I'm not sure about Chem and ChemE). But it sounds right for EE candidates.

And I don't recall interviewer at PLIP or at the callbacks about what they are looking for. Bid broadly, if they think you are a decent candidate you will at least get a preselect.

what do you mean "bid broadly"? I am looking for lit, does that mean I should go beyond the vault range I think I can crack?

my goal is to get as many interviews as possible since I will be leaning heavily on my IT WE b/c I am not patbar eligible. obviously, I will not be bidding the Knobbe/SKGF/Sughrue/Fitzpatricks @ PLIP b/c I have heard they mainly look for patbar eligible associates...is this correct?

[Jsa725]

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[Agent]

I recommend that you turn to Google and your network for this information. Specifics probably turn on your background. It can be a hassle.

Since you're not patent bar eligible (and not EE), I recommend spending more time choosing your bids. Try to focus on firms whose work might actually fit your background. Yes, avoid IP boutiques.

How do I figure that out? Do I look at client representations for different partners at each law firm? Or just browse a firm's website to see the "genre" of IP work the firm handles? These are just my best guesses... Not sure how/ where to begin. Thank you for your help!

[Jsa725]

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[Emu Flu]

To me, litigation provides more legal training and so puts you in a better position when you're thinking about exit options couple years down the road.

I have to disagree. There tends to be more exit opportunities for patent prosecutors than patent litigators. It's much easier to go in-house as a patent prosecutor than a patent litigator. It's also easier to start your own firm. There are also more of counsel type of positions if you have no desire to become a partner. There are also plenty of contractor type of positions if you want to work part-time.

Patent prosecution can be extremely boring and solitary. But, if you can deal with it, it's an extremely valuable skill to have.

[togepi]

I plan on going to a regional T2 with substantial $$ to keep my debt down. I'm patent A eligible, but my undergraduate grades are horrendous (barely graduated) in Civil Engineering. Am I just SOL with the PLIP program?

[Agent]

T2 + Civil E + poor UG grades = little margin for error. Based on what you've said so far, 0L, I recommend that you consider another career path. But maybe that's a bit extreme without more info on your WE, opportunity costs, geography, and networking skills.

I plan on going to a regional T2 with substantial $$ to keep my debt down. I'm patent A eligible, but my undergraduate grades are horrendous (barely graduated) in Civil Engineering. Am I just SOL with the PLIP program?

[09042014]

T2 + Civil E + poor UG grades = little margin for error. Based on what you've said so far, 0L, I recommend that you consider another career path. But maybe that's a bit extreme without more info on your WE, opportunity costs, geography, and networking skills.

I plan on going to a regional T2 with substantial $$ to keep my debt down. I'm patent A eligible, but my undergraduate grades are horrendous (barely graduated) in Civil Engineering. Am I just SOL with the PLIP program?

Yea don't go. There isn't a big market for T2. There isn't a big market for CivE and there isn't a big market for poor grades.

[togepi]

Would T14 with my credentials make a difference or is it my undergraduate grades that will preclude me from IP?

Would waiting and retaking for GWU put me in a better position also?

[09042014]

Would T14 with my credentials make a difference or is it my undergraduate grades that will preclude me from IP?

Would waiting and retaking for GWU put me in a better position also?

I had a 2.8 from UG and I was t14. It sunk me at every firm who asked about UG grades. It was mostly the patent prosecution firms. But I also had EE.

With a T14 and decent grades you could probably do patent litigation. I dunno about GW.

If you really wanna do this, try finding a patent agent job, then go to law school part time.