How prestigious is Sullivan & Cromwell? Forum

[rayiner]

Now that my seething/snark has subsided a bit:

S&C is in a group of NYC firms for which you'd be hard pressed to pick an unequivocally better firm. I think that's the best way to look at it, and there are probably 5-10 such firms in that category.

just curious: which of the other 5-10 firms fall outside v10?

Nobody would think you were crazy for picking Debevoise or Paul Weiss over Sullivan & Cromwell.

[Watermelon Man]

Now that my seething/snark has subsided a bit:

S&C is in a group of NYC firms for which you'd be hard pressed to pick an unequivocally better firm. I think that's the best way to look at it, and there are probably 5-10 such firms in that category.

just curious: which of the other 5-10 firms fall outside v10?

Nobody would think you were crazy for picking Debevoise or Paul Weiss over Sullivan & Cromwell.

True. And don't forget -- Jones Day isn't v10 either.

[rad lulz]

Now that my seething/snark has subsided a bit:

S&C is in a group of NYC firms for which you'd be hard pressed to pick an unequivocally better firm. I think that's the best way to look at it, and there are probably 5-10 such firms in that category.

just curious: which of the other 5-10 firms fall outside v10?

Nobody would think you were crazy for picking Debevoise or Paul Weiss over Sullivan & Cromwell.

True. And don't forget -- Jones Day isn't v10 either.

Rancid ONE FIRM trolling.

[Anonymous User]

Hey, I know it may sound dumb since I haven't even started working as a lawyer yet. I was really thinking about my exit option when I asked the question.

I am not sure if I am interested in being a in-house legal council. I'm more interested in some business management role. I have an academic background in economics/finance and I really would like to become a business executive in the finance industry or whatever company if any opportunity presents.

I think corporate is definitely a practice that I need to pick. I wonder
(1) among corporate, what practice will give me the most rounded skill set that I can later move into a business role? I heard M&A is good.
(2) what companies will hire biglaw associates (junior/mid level) to their corporate department. I know it's impossible for them to hire me as an executive, but I would like a non-entry level role.
(3) is it possible to transition from in-house to management? Do I need to go to b-school? Is b-school easy to get in after working for a V5 firm?

Thanks!

Now that my seething/snark has subsided a bit:

S&C is in a group of NYC firms for which you'd be hard pressed to pick an unequivocally better firm. I think that's the best way to look at it, and there are probably 5-10 such firms in that category.

If you're an eager law student with amorphous career goals (as most are) then you can't go wrong at S&C, but there are also other firms you can't go wrong at. If you start looking at specific practice areas, you will find many firms with better and worse, larger and smaller, better and less known, etc. practice areas. If you happen to have more specific career goals, then those differences may become important. S&C may not be the best firm to go to for bankruptcy or private equity work. Wachtell is going to be an objectively awful choice if you want to do securities work.

When it comes down to "prestige" it's too amorphous of a concept to draw meaningful distinctions within a group of similar firms. There are real differences in "prestige" between some firms, but that gap has to get pretty big for that to actually mean anything. Keep in mind that every biglaw firm is an enormous, successful business with fantastically wealthy people running it and paying ridiculous entry level salaries to clueless law school grads.

Lawyers and law students have this group obsession with ranking things. Pick any firm that isn't S&C to compare with it and you could fill a thread with people going back and forth on relative levels of "prestige" over all kinds of pointless metrics. But at the end of the day, I really think the most relevant and honest answer to this question is that S&C is one of several firms that are clearly at the top of the heap in NYC.

Without more specific ambitions or questions trying to slice it any finer will be done at the cost of those distinctions having any real relevance.

[Anonymous User]

thesealocust are you still there?

[thesealocust]

thesealocust are you still there?

Do you really think I do anything with my time other than refresh TLS 24/7/365?

If you're the same anon who posted the questions above, I didn't respond because I don't know much about them (re: business school, going into business) and/or because your thoughts generally align with what I know (re: M&A exit options).

[Anonymous User]

I understand that S&C has its faults, but the hating on the firm to this extent is a little ridiculous. Of the firms that do the same top-tier work, do you really think there are places that work less hours? Work on objectively "better" deals or cases? Provide exit options that are unavailable to S&C alums?

Also, people have talked about how they like or don't like the S&C culture - that's an inherently personal decision and one that can't be made for you. Someone who chooses or doesn't choose S&C because of a "this place is great" comment or "this place is terrible" comment by an anonymous poster in who-knows-where is an idiot.

Sorry for the rant, but threads like this are pretty stupid.

[Anonymous User]

None of them will get you laid when you wouldn't have otherwise, so none are very prestigious.

Uhhh, one S&C SA def. got laid when he otherwise wouldn't have (the other three would've probably worked too). Just realized I may very literally be a prestige whore.

[IAFG]

None of them will get you laid when you wouldn't have otherwise, so none are very prestigious.

Uhhh, one S&C SA def. got laid when he otherwise wouldn't have (the other three would've probably worked too). Just realized I may very literally be a prestige whore.

Law shrews don't count.

[rayiner]

None of them will get you laid when you wouldn't have otherwise, so none are very prestigious.

Uhhh, one S&C SA def. got laid when he otherwise wouldn't have (the other three would've probably worked too). Just realized I may very literally be a prestige whore.

Law shrews don't count.

Oh law shrews. The one demographic where V5 or LR might actually get you laid.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about their LA office?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about their LA office?

I know lots. Anything specific you want to know?

[rayiner]

I understand that S&C has its faults, but the hating on the firm to this extent is a little ridiculous. Of the firms that do the same top-tier work, do you really think there are places that work less hours? Work on objectively "better" deals or cases? Provide exit options that are unavailable to S&C alums?

Also, people have talked about how they like or don't like the S&C culture - that's an inherently personal decision and one that can't be made for you. Someone who chooses or doesn't choose S&C because of a "this place is great" comment or "this place is terrible" comment by an anonymous poster in who-knows-where is an idiot.

Sorry for the rant, but threads like this are pretty stupid.

People aren't hating on S&C specifically. People are having fun at the expense of someone who is asking whether S&C is "much more prestigious" than DPW/Simpson/Skadden. That's what the S&C shoulder bag story pokes fun at, the fact that law students obsess over whether to go to S&C versus STB and try to draw distinctions between the "V3" and the "V5" and then get there only to find people lateraling in from lower V50 firms.

[romothesavior]

S&C

MURICA

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about their LA office?

I know lots. Anything specific you want to know?

Curious about your impression in general; in specific I'd say I'm curious about culture, hours, and reputation in LA (e.g., for exit options/lateralling in LA).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about their LA office?

I know lots. Anything specific you want to know?

Curious about your impression in general; in specific I'd say I'm curious about culture, hours, and reputation in LA (e.g., for exit options/lateralling in LA).

Running out the door but short version is: on one hand, the culture is fairly similar to NY, probably a bit more formal than other LA firms (although I have no basis for comparison). But on the other, it's a fairly small office, maybe 35 - 40 lawyers, so you know everyone there so it's a bit more familiar/friendly and informal in other ways. Hours are long, similar to NY hours but with more flexibility on facetime (most people work pretty standard biglaw hours with some of that working from home). Office is pretty close, and everyone is very nice. Reputation in LA: on one hand, it's a satellite of a very well known NY firm, so it has a strong reputation in general, and you're doing similar work as the NY office (a minority of the work is done with NY lawyers). But on the other, it's not really ingrained into the city as much as firms that have been there for a half-century or more (such as Gibson, O'Melveny, Latham, & Munger). I'm sure you would have good lateralling options, I know the lawyers there had headhunters calling them all the time.

A lot of the key differences you may not realize are the size of the firm, much smaller than most of the big LA players, and the location (Century City), which is much nicer than downtown.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anything about their LA office?

I know lots. Anything specific you want to know?

Curious about your impression in general; in specific I'd say I'm curious about culture, hours, and reputation in LA (e.g., for exit options/lateralling in LA).

Running out the door but short version is: on one hand, the culture is fairly similar to NY, probably a bit more formal than other LA firms (although I have no basis for comparison). But on the other, it's a fairly small office, maybe 35 - 40 lawyers, so you know everyone there so it's a bit more familiar/friendly and informal in other ways. Hours are long, similar to NY hours but with more flexibility on facetime (most people work pretty standard biglaw hours with some of that working from home). Office is pretty close, and everyone is very nice. Reputation in LA: on one hand, it's a satellite of a very well known NY firm, so it has a strong reputation in general, and you're doing similar work as the NY office (a minority of the work is done with NY lawyers). But on the other, it's not really ingrained into the city as much as firms that have been there for a half-century or more (such as Gibson, O'Melveny, Latham, & Munger). I'm sure you would have good lateralling options, I know the lawyers there had headhunters calling them all the time.

A lot of the key differences you may not realize are the size of the firm, much smaller than most of the big LA players, and the location (Century City), which is much nicer than downtown.

Awesome, thanks! This is about what I'd hoped and it seems pretty solid.

[poloshark]

Best full service corporate group in the world imo. Highly prestigious. Just do S&C M&A --> in house at Goldman brochocino

User has been outed.

[Anonymous User]

If only there were a "vault" of information on this subject.

[pereatmundus]

If only there were a "vault" of information on this subject.

--ImageRemoved--

[Old Gregg]

I don't understand why this thread is two pages long.