Let's Talk San Francisco - Taking Questions Forum

[rad lulz]

Do you regularly see MoFo bros stylin on dem Orrick bros?

OP here.

Brotip: MoFo ain't the frattiest firm in the Bay. The North Beach PE/bankers laugh at the lawyer "bros."

What is the frattiest bay area firm.

Straight bros or gay bros?

str8

[Anonymous User]

What is the frattiest bay area firm.

Straight bros or gay bros?

str8

Depends on if you wanna bro out or straight chill.

[rad lulz]

What is the frattiest bay area firm.

Straight bros or gay bros?

str8

Depends on if you wanna bro out or straight chill.

Bro out

[Anonymous User]

I just want to figure out how many eggs to put in the SF/SV basket. I really want to be at a firm out there doing corporate work. My only "ties" are that my sister and many cousins live out there and I want to do PE/VC/emerging company-type work if possible. Not IP, not from California. Between top 10% and 15% at Georgetown, 1L summer job in DC.

A number of people I know were able to successfully use their interest in startup/tech (which they were able to convey quite well in an interview) as a hook to overcome lack of geographic ties. These people were all T6 but not necessarily amazing grades. But the overwhelming majority of summers that I know have geographic ties.

[jess]

.

[sambeber]

.

[Anonymous User]

From MVP, would love to get there with median grades but no ties. Grades too low?

Honestly, it'll be hard. I'd bid heavily on NYC firms that also have offices in SF; it's easy to lateral. I'd also mass-mail like crazy out here. You really do need to create a compelling narrative about the Bay Area, though.

There are a few firms you shouldn't waste your time with, because they care much more about grades and you're likely out of range: Covington, Quinn, Keker, Gibson, Arnold & Porter, Latham.

I'd also bid the Valley. Firms like Fenwick, Cooley, and Wilson aren't completely out of reach for median at MVP. Jones Day, Paul Hastings, Akin Gump, OMM, and Bingham are all possible, if still reaches I think.

Best of luck!

Thanks so much!

[Anonymous User]

(Different anon)

Oh and which firms have the biggest SA classes there? It seems like most are pretty small.

To add to what the above anon said: if you really want to work in the Bay Area I suggest being open to the SV firms as well (though their work differs in some ways from what SF firms do) and you'll get some decent class sizes (20-30ish) from the SV natives (WSGR, Fenwick, Cooley) as well as a few more outpost offices that have the 5-10 range.

OP here. I definitely agree with this. Many, many people work in one of the SV offices and live in SF (it's about 40 minutes door-to-door from the Mission to SV, add 10 more if you're at Fenwick in Mountain View).

Even during rush hour traffic? I have two interviews for firms in the area but am only interested in living in SF.

The people I know who do that drive leave at 7:30ish and get to the office around 8:30. I've done that drive before, it's not bad. The worst part is near the SFO and Stanford exits. Taking the 280 is much faster than the 101, hence the suggestion to live in the Mission (unless you're at one of the firms - Greenburg, DLA, etc. - on the 101 in EPA).

You will be confined to certain neighborhoods on the south end of town, though, if you want that drive to be less than an hour. I happen to like that area a lot, but you can't live in North Beach or something and do that drive in under an hour. You'll just have fewer options if you want it to be a reasonable trip each day.

[Anonymous User]

Even during rush hour traffic? I have two interviews for firms in the area but am only interested in living in SF.

It depends on where you live. Caltrain is very quick and reliable. Some people live near it and then Caltrain down. Some people drive to the Caltrain station.

[jess]

.

[Anonymous User]

Did not see this post before I responded, sorry. I got Skadden SV via preselect (was rejected by DPW), but I do NOT have high grades/impressive resume. Not sure if this was a fluke or what. Is it mostly Stanford/Berkeley people at this office?

Also, what are the less selective firms in either SF or SV?

(Not OP) Skadden SV takes around 3 summers. Not sure who, though they are a decent bit selective (but it's hard to tell since the data for them comes from only a few people).

The SV native firms are probably your best bet for being least selective coupled with having the largest class sizes, imo. There's not a lot of lower selectivity SF firms. Maybe Orrick? The ones that are least selective also seem to take only a handful of people.

[Anonymous User]

Did not see this post before I responded, sorry. I got Skadden SV via preselect (was rejected by DPW), but I do NOT have high grades/impressive resume. Not sure if this was a fluke or what. Is it mostly Stanford/Berkeley people at this office?

Also, what are the less selective firms in either SF or SV?

(Not OP) Skadden SV takes around 3 summers. Not sure who, though they are a decent bit selective (but it's hard to tell since the data for them comes from only a few people).

The SV native firms are probably your best bet for being least selective coupled with having the largest class sizes, imo. There's not a lot of lower selectivity SF firms. Maybe Orrick? The ones that are least selective also seem to take only a handful of people.

This. The less selective firms have very small classes, and the bigger firms are snobbier when it comes to grades and school rank.

[Anonymous User]

Straight bros or gay bros?

str8

Depends on if you wanna bro out or straight chill.

Bro out

Sorry bro. I only straight chill. Can't help you out.

[Emma.]

Straight bros or gay bros?

str8

Depends on if you wanna bro out or straight chill.

Bro out

Latham.

[Anonymous User]

What's the lowdown on Jones Day SV?

[Anonymous User]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

[ilovesf]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

Judging from NALP, Pillsbury has a really small class size. It's kind of weird they are already all taken though, I don't know why they are even bothering coming to my OCI then.

[piccolittle]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

I've been mass mailing SF with some success. Keep trying - some firms are more responsive than others.

[Anonymous User]

Did not see this post before I responded, sorry. I got Skadden SV via preselect (was rejected by DPW), but I do NOT have high grades/impressive resume. Not sure if this was a fluke or what. Is it mostly Stanford/Berkeley people at this office?

Also, what are the less selective firms in either SF or SV?

(Not OP) Skadden SV takes around 3 summers. Not sure who, though they are a decent bit selective (but it's hard to tell since the data for them comes from only a few people).

The SV native firms are probably your best bet for being least selective coupled with having the largest class sizes, imo. There's not a lot of lower selectivity SF firms. Maybe Orrick? The ones that are least selective also seem to take only a handful of people.

This. The less selective firms have very small classes, and the bigger firms are snobbier when it comes to grades and school rank.

I think that should be nuanced a bit. Different anon, studying for bar & SF-bound for IP lit. In experience, the NY-based SV offices will actually be less grade-sensitive at T14's than their NYC offices will be. They are also far less likely to look at local law schools than the Cal-based firms. On the other hand, they tend to be smaller classes, so it can be a bit more random to get an offer (but might actually be easier if you are a T6 & struggling over the "ties" question, for example).

In terms of frattiest firm, it has to be Latham, but then again, it's sort of relative to the city, and SF's law scene just doesn't seem very fratty. The finance guys & people on the business-side of tech firms are pretty fratty though, especially with the influence of all the transplants coming in.

[Anonymous User]

A fellow bay area person here: just to warn the two people that haven't heard that oakland is legitimately very dangerous so you may pay less to live there but with good reason. Berkeley is an ok place to be if want to be in the east bay and it is also a quick ride into the embarcadero.

Just want to correct this statement. Different anon (anon because mentioning partners at my SF firm). There are parts of Oakland that are "legitimately very dangerous." Oakland can be a great bang for your buck if you avoid the "dangerous" areas-- plenty of partners at my SF firm live in Oakland.

Also, Oakland is #5 top place to visit according to the New York Times (http://travel.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/tr ... wanted=all).

[Anonymous User]

Do SF firms take non-OCI apps seriously? I am in the top 10% at a t-30 (with Law Review and lots of good work experience) and I am originally from SF (all my family is there). I was shocked I already got a rejection from Pillsbury telling me their spots were all taken! How long does it usually take for firms to reply? Any advice for those trying to get firms' attention?

pillsbury is a festering TTT. its not that their class is full, its that they've done very poorly for years now and won't hire more then 5-10 people. this is from a firm that used to be one of the leaders in SF.

[Anonymous User]

(Different anon)

Oh and which firms have the biggest SA classes there? It seems like most are pretty small.

To add to what the above anon said: if you really want to work in the Bay Area I suggest being open to the SV firms as well (though their work differs in some ways from what SF firms do) and you'll get some decent class sizes (20-30ish) from the SV natives (WSGR, Fenwick, Cooley) as well as a few more outpost offices that have the 5-10 range.

OP here. I definitely agree with this. Many, many people work in one of the SV offices and live in SF (it's about 40 minutes door-to-door from the Mission to SV, add 10 more if you're at Fenwick in Mountain View).

Even during rush hour traffic? I have two interviews for firms in the area but am only interested in living in SF.

Yeah, that's in light traffic, but 280 is usually pretty smooth except in like one stop -- except when there's an accident, and then it sucks and can take like an hour or a little more, but that's not a daily occurrence. Of course Muni is pretty slow, so even in-SF commutes can be lousy. I love the Bay Area, but it's generally lousy for commuting. I feel like LA is even better.

[Anonymous User]

I like how the very first sentence at your NYTimes link about why Oakland is nice references violence:

"Tensions have cooled since violence erupted at the recent Occupy Oakland protests, but the city’s revitalized night-life scene has continued to smolder. "

[bk1]

Oakland is overall fine. There are bad areas, of course. It's a fucking metropolis. What are people expecting, suburbia?

[Tangerine Gleam]

Yeah, Oakland can be great. Totally depends on the area.