What Firms Pay Above Market? Forum

[chup]

LOL...no they don't

they base bonuses on hours and we've never gotten an accurate number of how much people got to bill to get those above market bonuses.....plus we don't know how many associates they give above market bonuses.....so it could be a statistically insignificant number for all we know

Yeah, well you're one of the most obnoxiously wrong posters on this forum and I'm an insider who knows, so we're in luck.

If you bill roughly 2,000 hours, you'll make a market bonus. If you bill above 2,100 hours, you'll make an above market bonus. Go higher and you'll make many multiples of the market. I made roughly 3.75x of the market last year and I was in the high 2,000s. The number isn't "statistically insignificant" because 90% of associates bill above 2,100 hours.

This is pretty well known per ATL and careers.abovethelaw.com.

I wouldn't be getting giddy over a ~$28k bonus after killing yourself billing 2800 hours.

W&C is more prestigous than Kirkland and there is no billable requirement to making 180k as a first year. Susman pays 40-50k without a billable requirement. Plus I've talked to some Susman associates and they do about 2800 hours/yr and thought folks doing 3000 hours were crazy.

Try double that and I billed way less.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

Could you two please take your aspie law firm dick-slanging elsewhere?

[20121109]

Try double that and I billed way less.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

There had to be a less offensive way to convey such sentiment. Please try and do so in the future.

[Anonymous User]

Try double that and I billed way less.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

There had to be a less offensive way to convey such sentiment. Please try and do so in the future.

Anon above: sorry, just massively annoyed at magnificent. anger multiplied over many of his posts. im sure im not alone on this one.

[20121109]

Try double that and I billed way less.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

There had to be a less offensive way to convey such sentiment. Please try and do so in the future.

Anon above: sorry, just massively annoyed at magnificent. anger multiplied over many of his posts. im sure im not alone on this one.

I know you're a genuinely helpful poster. We all have our days of frustration. I appreciate your apology but it's fine

[Big Shrimpin]

Desmarais 180.

IP TO 180!

[Borg]

Duval & Stachenfeld pays above market if you're at a really good law school, but you also have to be in the top of your class at that really good school to get the job. They have a second track for people from Hofstra, NYLS etc. where they get paid like $75k. From the looks of their website, it doesn't look like it is going particularly well when it comes to recruiting the former. I guess it isn't surprising, as the pay difference is somewhat negligible when you take into account the fact that you have to commit to doing real estate work, few people have heard of your firm, and you'll be resented by associates from lower ranked schools who are making less than half of what you're making for no real reason. I can't imagine wasting the recruiting power you hold as a top grad from HYSCCN on a firm like that.

[Veyron]

Duval & Stachenfeld pays above market if you're at a really good law school, but you also have to be in the top of your class at that really good school to get the job. They have a second track for people from Hofstra, NYLS etc. where they get paid like $75k. From the looks of their website, it doesn't look like it is going particularly well when it comes to recruiting the former. I guess it isn't surprising, as the pay difference is somewhat negligible when you take into account the fact that you have to commit to doing real estate work, few people have heard of your firm, and you'll be resented by associates from lower ranked schools who are making less than half of what you're making for no real reason. I can't imagine wasting the recruiting power you hold as a top grad from HYSCCN on a firm like that.

Well, if you want to do real estate and have that sort of background I could see it.

[Magnificent]

LOL...no they don't

they base bonuses on hours and we've never gotten an accurate number of how much people got to bill to get those above market bonuses.....plus we don't know how many associates they give above market bonuses.....so it could be a statistically insignificant number for all we know

Yeah, well you're one of the most obnoxiously wrong posters on this forum and I'm an insider who knows, so we're in luck.

If you bill roughly 2,000 hours, you'll make a market bonus. If you bill above 2,100 hours, you'll make an above market bonus. Go higher and you'll make many multiples of the market. I made roughly 3.75x of the market last year and I was in the high 2,000s. The number isn't "statistically insignificant" because 90% of associates bill above 2,100 hours.

This is pretty well known per ATL and careers.abovethelaw.com.

I wouldn't be getting giddy over a ~$28k bonus after killing yourself billing 2800 hours.

W&C is more prestigous than Kirkland and there is no billable requirement to making 180k as a first year. Susman pays 40-50k without a billable requirement. Plus I've talked to some Susman associates and they do about 2800 hours/yr and thought folks doing 3000 hours were crazy.

Try double that and I billed way less.

Were you a first year or not? Cause that estimate was based on first year numbers. W&C and Susman will stay pay more per hour billed if we climb higher in class rankings.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

Your right that I am law student but I'm a rising 3L with a CoA clerkship already in hand PLUS I've worked as a summer at the most prestigious firms. And your lying through your teeth talking about prestige not mattering when you actually start working.

I summered at a firm where they literally told us that they had so much work that they needed laterals to come over but because they only hired from certain "peer" firms that they were having a hard time filling their ranks even though there were alot of qualified applicants.

And no Kirkland was not considered a "peer" firm.

[rayiner]

Yeah, well you're one of the most obnoxiously wrong posters on this forum and I'm an insider who knows, so we're in luck.

If you bill roughly 2,000 hours, you'll make a market bonus. If you bill above 2,100 hours, you'll make an above market bonus. Go higher and you'll make many multiples of the market. I made roughly 3.75x of the market last year and I was in the high 2,000s. The number isn't "statistically insignificant" because 90% of associates bill above 2,100 hours.

This is pretty well known per ATL and careers.abovethelaw.com.

I wouldn't be getting giddy over a ~$28k bonus after killing yourself billing 2800 hours.

W&C is more prestigous than Kirkland and there is no billable requirement to making 180k as a first year. Susman pays 40-50k without a billable requirement. Plus I've talked to some Susman associates and they do about 2800 hours/yr and thought folks doing 3000 hours were crazy.

Try double that and I billed way less.

Were you a first year or not? Cause that estimate was based on first year numbers. W&C and Susman will stay pay more per hour billed if we climb higher in class rankings.

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

FYI: Just because these firms don't have an official hours requirement, that doesn't mean they're working less. I'd say that associates at all three firms work pretty comparable hours. The fact that you even mention that these firms have no "billable hour requirements" as a plus betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Fuck, the fact that you even bothered to mention "prestige" to a big firm associate betrays that you're an ignorant shithead law student. Nobody gives a shit about that stuff when you're actually working.

Your right that I am law student but I'm a rising 3L with a CoA clerkship already in hand PLUS I've worked as a summer at the most prestigious firms. And your lying through your teeth talking about prestige not mattering when you actually start working.

I summered at a firm where they literally told us that they had so much work that they needed laterals to come over but because they only hired from certain "peer" firms that they were having a hard time filling their ranks even though there were alot of qualified applicants.

And no Kirkland was not considered a "peer" firm.

God you're an unbearable tool.

[IAFG]

Magnificent strikes again. I bet 20 yr old hotties are just lining up to suck your dick when you start waving around all that prestige. COA clerkship? DC biglaw? What could possibly be more appealing?

[Anonymous User]

W&C and Susman will stay pay more per hour billed if we climb higher in class rankings.

W&C, I don't know. But I made more than peers with similar class levels at Susman. How do I know this? One of them is a close family member, so I actually know a lot about the firm. It's fun to see you talk about it the way you do.

Your right that I am law student but I'm a rising 3L with a CoA clerkship already in hand PLUS I've worked as a summer at the most prestigious firms.

Based on the quality of your posts, I strongly doubt it.

And your lying through your teeth talking about prestige not mattering when you actually start working.

No, I'm speaking from experience, which you don't have. Nobody in my office cares about Vault rankings. I'm sure the partners don't even care. I do think people care about chambers rankings, but that's because they actually measure something useful that potential clients look at. I definitely think people care about league tables, again because they actually measure something useful that potential clients look at.

I summered at a firm where they literally told us that they had so much work that they needed laterals to come over but because they only hired from certain "peer" firms that they were having a hard time filling their ranks even though there were alot of qualified applicants.

Funny you should mention that, because the most prestigious firms out there don't actually take laterals. So you're either lying or you didn't work at a prestigious firm.

And no Kirkland was not considered a "peer" firm.

I didn't really come here to argue this. I came here to state that K&E pays above market, which we do. I'm pretty sure I've won that argument. I'm not really going to try to argue that K&E is a peer of some mythical prestigious firm you worked at, which could really be anything since I'm 99% sure you're full of shit.

You talk a big game, but you have none. Come back when you've reached puberty.

[Veyron]

Nobody in my office cares about Vault rankings. I'm sure the partners don't even care. I do think people care about chambers rankings, but that's because they actually measure something useful that potential clients look at.

Surprisingly, credited.

[rayiner]

Magnificent strikes again. I bet 20 yr old hotties are just lining up to suck your dick when you start waving around all that prestige. COA clerkship? DC biglaw? What could possibly be more appealing?

Unless by "most prestigious firms" he means Kellogg Huber or Robbins Russell, he's just another shmuck with a COA.

[Borg]

Duval & Stachenfeld pays above market if you're at a really good law school, but you also have to be in the top of your class at that really good school to get the job. They have a second track for people from Hofstra, NYLS etc. where they get paid like $75k. From the looks of their website, it doesn't look like it is going particularly well when it comes to recruiting the former. I guess it isn't surprising, as the pay difference is somewhat negligible when you take into account the fact that you have to commit to doing real estate work, few people have heard of your firm, and you'll be resented by associates from lower ranked schools who are making less than half of what you're making for no real reason. I can't imagine wasting the recruiting power you hold as a top grad from HYSCCN on a firm like that.

Well, if you want to do real estate and have that sort of background I could see it.

I guess, but I'd rather go with a real estate group at a more well known firm without the odd compensation system and heavy recruiting from bad law schools. An extra $20k now isn't worth the loss of exit options and probably not great work environment.

[attractive_NUisance]

Duval & Stachenfeld pays above market if you're at a really good law school, but you also have to be in the top of your class at that really good school to get the job. They have a second track for people from Hofstra, NYLS etc. where they get paid like $75k. From the looks of their website, it doesn't look like it is going particularly well when it comes to recruiting the former. I guess it isn't surprising, as the pay difference is somewhat negligible when you take into account the fact that you have to commit to doing real estate work, few people have heard of your firm, and you'll be resented by associates from lower ranked schools who are making less than half of what you're making for no real reason. I can't imagine wasting the recruiting power you hold as a top grad from HYSCCN on a firm like that.

Well, if you want to do real estate and have that sort of background I could see it.

I guess, but I'd rather go with a real estate group at a more well known firm without the odd compensation system and heavy recruiting from bad law schools. An extra $20k now isn't worth the loss of exit options and probably not great work environment.

Sounds like a fun work environment. I'm sure the staff attorneys all love to field questions from the prestige-track attorneys who know nothing about real estate when they start. I'm sure they don't try to throw them under the bus every chance they get.

[IAFG]

Sounds like a fun work environment. I'm sure the staff attorneys all love to field questions from the prestige-track attorneys who know nothing about real estate when they start. I'm sure they don't try to throw them under the bus every chance they get.

+1 seems like a formula for pleasant and high-performing teams.

[Veyron]

Duval & Stachenfeld pays above market if you're at a really good law school, but you also have to be in the top of your class at that really good school to get the job. They have a second track for people from Hofstra, NYLS etc. where they get paid like $75k. From the looks of their website, it doesn't look like it is going particularly well when it comes to recruiting the former. I guess it isn't surprising, as the pay difference is somewhat negligible when you take into account the fact that you have to commit to doing real estate work, few people have heard of your firm, and you'll be resented by associates from lower ranked schools who are making less than half of what you're making for no real reason. I can't imagine wasting the recruiting power you hold as a top grad from HYSCCN on a firm like that.

Well, if you want to do real estate and have that sort of background I could see it.

I guess, but I'd rather go with a real estate group at a more well known firm without the odd compensation system and heavy recruiting from bad law schools. An extra $20k now isn't worth the loss of exit options and probably not great work environment.

? Lots of highly ranked firms have talent from low ranked schools. And I wouldn't turn down an extra 15k just because some other attorneys at my firm aren't making as much as I am. Also, their real estate practice is well respected if you are going to lateral but stay within that practice area. Somehow I get the feeling that smoke is being blown up my ass.

[buckilaw]

W&C is definitely more "prestigious," (though, technically, per the Vault rankings, that isn't true) but I don't really care. I was top 40% of my class in law school, so I doubt I had a chance there or at Susman. Nor do I care. These three firms focus on entirely different aspects of law, so they're not even competitors. Perhaps the most obvious sign that I really don't care about Susman or W&C is that I do transactions, not litigation.

@ this anon, I'm interested in doing transactional work at Kirkland, would love the chance to discuss Kirkland's transactional practice with you via PM.

[ajaxconstructions]

Magnificent is seriously 180 troll.

[Magnificent]

No, I'm speaking from experience, which you don't have. Nobody in my office cares about Vault rankings. I'm sure the partners don't even care. I do think people care about chambers rankings, but that's because they actually measure something useful that potential clients look at. I definitely think people care about league tables, again because they actually measure something useful that potential clients look at.

I never said anything about "vault rankings." Stop trying to play semantics. I was talking about PRESTIGE. We all know the Vault rankings don't truly rank prestige. You are lying if you don't admit that firm prestige plays a big role even after people start working. Firms are always quick to refer to "peer firms" and we all know that those are firms they consider to be on the same level prestige wise. The legal profession is ENTIRELY about prestige. From the beginning (law school) until the end.

I know this first hand b/c during OCI last fall almost every firm I was interviewing with was impressed by my 1L SA position at a prestigious biglaw firm. That helped me nab a prestigious boutique job this summer. Which in turn helped me nab a prestigious CoA clerkship.

Prestige begets more prestige. That is the way the legal profession works.

Funny you should mention that, because the most prestigious firms out there don't actually take laterals. So you're either lying or you didn't work at a prestigious firm.

Most prestigious firms don't take LATERAL PARTNERS but I can't think of many that don't take lateral associates. I know that at least in DC some of the uber prestigious boutiques in DC definitely do (Robins Russell for example) I also know that Susman definitely does as well. MTO does it as well. Maybe W&C and Wachtell don't but I can't think of any others that don't take lateral associates.

[Magnificent]

Magnificent strikes again. I bet 20 yr old hotties are just lining up to suck your dick when you start waving around all that prestige. COA clerkship? DC biglaw? What could possibly be more appealing?

Unless by "most prestigious firms" he means Kellogg Huber or Robbins Russell, he's just another shmuck with a COA.

I'm not gonna say where I've worked because they don't hire many summers and it would definitely out me. But its one of the top/most desirable firms in the country and only hires CoA/SCOTUS clerks.

[ajaxconstructions]

Considering Magnificent goes around posting stuff like:

how rare is getting a 1L SA position at a firm that pays market rate?

I got a position that will pay me 3K a week and want to know what percentage of 1L's get a position like this.

Thanks guys.

I'm sure he ended up at a MAGNIFICENT firm.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[rayiner]

Magnificent strikes again. I bet 20 yr old hotties are just lining up to suck your dick when you start waving around all that prestige. COA clerkship? DC biglaw? What could possibly be more appealing?

Unless by "most prestigious firms" he means Kellogg Huber or Robbins Russell, he's just another shmuck with a COA.

I'm not gonna say where I've worked because they don't hire many summers and it would definitely out me. But its one of the top/most desirable firms in the country and only hires CoA/SCOTUS clerks.

Chasing prestige your whole life will make you miserable. You should do things because they make you happy, not because they make people on law-websites think you're impressive.

Nobody thinks he's impressive.

[IAFG]

Chasing prestige your whole life will make you miserable. You should do things because they make you happy, not because they make people on law-websites think you're impressive.

There's nothing wrong with doing things to impress people. Those people should be hot 20-somethings who give great head though, not pencil-necked law geeks.