Texas OCI (and non-UT students bidding on TX firms) Forum

de5igual · Post by **de5igual** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm above median at Vandy. (maybe top 40%-35%). Should I be bidding more competitive firms higher? Or stick with where I'm more likely to actually get an interview/hired? (i.e. bidding Bracewell or Locke Lord higher?)

totally depends on how your OCI system works. at top 35%-40%, you're not a lock anywhere, so if there's a lottery component, put the firms where you're more likely to get hired at the top (in case you don't get preselected). at that range, Big3 is really hit or miss, so if they like you enough on paper, they'll preselect you; if you don't get preselected, then your chances through the lottery were pretty slim to begin with.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:16 am

f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm above median at Vandy. (maybe top 40%-35%). Should I be bidding more competitive firms higher? Or stick with where I'm more likely to actually get an interview/hired? (i.e. bidding Bracewell or Locke Lord higher?)
totally depends on how your OCI system works. at top 35%-40%, you're not a lock anywhere, so if there's a lottery component, put the firms where you're more likely to get hired at the top (in case you don't get preselected). at that range, Big3 is really hit or miss, so if they like you enough on paper, they'll preselect you; if you don't get preselected, then your chances through the lottery were pretty slim to begin with.

I think it's 100% preselect? It's kind of hard to tell from our CSO email, but all resumes get forwarded to the employer and then they pick from them to interview. I'm not quite sure where our ranking firms comes in to play, to be honest.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:20 am

50% preselect 50% lottery at Vandy. C'mon bro, this is simple shit.

njgal · Post by **njgal** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:30 am

Does anyone know which firms are second half?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:10 pm

Just fyi don't get too hung up on the posted grade requirements. I was barely above median last year and got offers from 2 of the big 3 in Houston plus the other usual suspects. I had decent work experience and strong Texas ties though.

sn20 · Post by **sn20** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just fyi don't get too hung up on the posted grade requirements. I was barely above median last year and got offers from 2 of the big 3 in Houston plus the other usual suspects. I had decent work experience and strong Texas ties though.

Are you at UT?

InnocuousDiatribe · Post by **InnocuousDiatribe** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 5-10% at CCN here. No ties to Texas but really interested in doing litigation there. Does anyone know what he best lit firms in Texas are? I'm applying to Susman, but I know that's a big longshot.
fulbright, McKool, Beck Redden, VE, and susman are the better firms for lit

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 5-10% at CCN here. No ties to Texas but really interested in doing litigation there. Does anyone know what he best lit firms in Texas are? I'm applying to Susman, but I know that's a big longshot.
Boutiques (in dallas at least):

Carrington, Bickel and Brewer, Baron Budd, Susman, McKool Smith
Thanks!

I'd add Gibbs & Bruns near the top of that list.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 5-10% at CCN here. No ties to Texas but really interested in doing litigation there. Does anyone know what he best lit firms in Texas are? I'm applying to Susman, but I know that's a big longshot.

Reynolds, Frizzell, et al.

nonprofit-prophet · Post by **nonprofit-prophet** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:51 pm

How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:28 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?

Say you did it for financial reasons of the great LRAP safety net. I imagine big law firms like financially motivated people since they are less likely to dip out as soon as they are qualified for another job.

I have a question that maybe some people might know, or at least rad might have an idea: where should I be ranking Texas firms from Michigan given that I'm trying to maximize bids? TX edges out as my number one market, but there are like 5 big TX firms doing OCI at Michigan + the satellite offices of other firms and I'm tempted to try to game the system.

InnocuousDiatribe · Post by **InnocuousDiatribe** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm above median at Vandy. (maybe top 40%-35%). Should I be bidding more competitive firms higher? Or stick with where I'm more likely to actually get an interview/hired? (i.e. bidding Bracewell or Locke Lord higher?)

If it helps, LLBL Houston seems to love Vandy.

de5igual · Post by **de5igual** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:43 am

AreJay711 wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Say you did it for financial reasons of the great LRAP safety net. I imagine big law firms like financially motivated people since they are less likely to dip out as soon as they are qualified for another job.

I have a question that maybe some people might know, or at least rad might have an idea: where should I be ranking Texas firms from Michigan given that I'm trying to maximize bids? TX edges out as my number one market, but there are like 5 big TX firms doing OCI at Michigan + the satellite offices of other firms and I'm tempted to try to game the system.

assuming there aren't that many people bidding TX firms at michigan, couldn't you just rank it towards the mid-bottom of your list while populating the top of your list with the highly-sought-after big class/not-so-selective NYC firms?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:07 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:Haven't seen a UT bid list/OCI discussion, so I figured I'd start one.

I'm right around a 4.0 (I guess 2-3%) and I'm looking to stay in TX, but I threw in LA and NYC just in case I had a change of heart at the last minute. I wasn't really sure how to structure my bids. I guessed that more UT students would bid on TX than NY/LA, so I bid those firms higher. Does anyone see any glaring mistakes? Am I bidding too low for NYC? Any firms I missed? Also, I'm not completely sure how our OCI works. If we don't get an interview with a firm we like through the bidding process, can we still send them a resume?

I would definitely revise your picks based on home offices. For example, VE Houston is much stronger than VE Dallas, and I would also suggest ranking LL Dallas above LL Houston. Further, if you know what practice groups you're most interested in, I would rank firms that are strong in those areas first. For example, if you want to do lit, focus on Fulbright Houston, Gibbs & Bruns Houston, Susman Houston, McKool Dallas, Carrington Dallas, Beck Redden Houston, etc. If you want to do transactional, focus on VE Houston, AK Houston, Bracewell Houston, HayBoo Dallas, Jones Day Dallas, Baker Botts Houston. Finally, I would recommend focusing on Texas-based firms than satellite offices if you have any interest in making partner. And I wouldn't rank Akin Gump so high at all - they have a very diminishing presence in Texas.

Granted, with your grades, you will get interviews with all of these places, so my advice is really more for callbacks and accepting offers than it is for OCI bid lists.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I would definitely revise your picks based on home offices. For example, VE Houston is much stronger than VE Dallas, and I would also suggest ranking LL Dallas above LL Houston.

Curious why you say LL Dallas over LL Houston (forgive me if it's stupid, the NALP data isn't up). I was under the impression that Houston had more SA spots.

Also LL is interviewing on my campus and states that students can interview with both Dallas AND Houston. Is is dumb to do both? I like the firm a lot and would be fine with Dallas or Houston but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I would definitely revise your picks based on home offices. For example, VE Houston is much stronger than VE Dallas, and I would also suggest ranking LL Dallas above LL Houston.
Curious why you say LL Dallas over LL Houston (forgive me if it's stupid, the NALP data isn't up). I was under the impression that Houston had more SA spots.

Also LL is interviewing on my campus and states that students can interview with both Dallas AND Houston. Is is dumb to do both? I like the firm a lot and would be fine with Dallas or Houston but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

I would rank LL Dallas higher bc that's the home office. I would also recommend against interviewing for both offices - alot of firms want to see commitment to a particular city. Plus, there are alot better places to work in Houston than LL.

AreJay711 · Post by **AreJay711** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:11 pm

f0bolous wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Say you did it for financial reasons of the great LRAP safety net. I imagine big law firms like financially motivated people since they are less likely to dip out as soon as they are qualified for another job.

I have a question that maybe some people might know, or at least rad might have an idea: where should I be ranking Texas firms from Michigan given that I'm trying to maximize bids? TX edges out as my number one market, but there are like 5 big TX firms doing OCI at Michigan + the satellite offices of other firms and I'm tempted to try to game the system.
assuming there aren't that many people bidding TX firms at michigan, couldn't you just rank it towards the mid-bottom of your list while populating the top of your list with the highly-sought-after big class/not-so-selective NYC firms?

That's my plan -- I'm just not sure it will work. I guess there won't be many people ITT with experience in analogous situations though.

philosoraptor · Post by **philosoraptor** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:06 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?

Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.

InnocuousDiatribe · Post by **InnocuousDiatribe** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:16 am

philosoraptor wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.

Personally, I don't think you don't have to be sure. I think if it's something you MAY want to do in the future, it's still worth it to go.

unlicensedpotato · Post by **unlicensedpotato** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:26 am

philosoraptor · Post by **philosoraptor** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:09 pm

unlicensedpotato wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.
One consideration could be that even if you can land most jobs in Texas at present, in 5 years if you want to leave your firm (or Texas in general), it seems like it would be much easier to do with HLS on your resume as opposed to UT. No clue how it would affect the interviewers perspective. Would Texas firms interviewing at Harvard not send Harvard grads?

Five years out, what's going to matter is what kind of work you do, how good you are at it, and whom you know. It'll be hard to lateral out of your initial market even with a good reason, and I've heard it's even tougher out of Texas (not SAing in Texas, so I don't know for sure). For in-house moves, what seems to matter most is how well you know, fit with, and add value to the client's/target's business, not where you went to school.

Again, I'm sure transferring wouldn't hurt, and might provide a slight boost in certain limited circumstances. But if it were me, all else equal, I'd want for sure to be gunning for academia or know I'd be trying to lateral out in a few years (and who'd want to start a career with that attitude?) before I gave up top of the class at UT and underwent the transfer process. Just my two cents. Do what feels right to you.

nonprofit-prophet · Post by **nonprofit-prophet** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:29 pm

philosoraptor wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.

Harvard would be at least 40k cheaper than UT. That's really the only reason I'm considering it.

Perseus_I · Post by **Perseus_I** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:22 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.
Harvard would be at least 40k cheaper than UT. That's really the only reason I'm considering it.

Unless you can get UT to give you a full ride, I have no idea why you would ever even consider staying at UT. UT on a full ride vs. sticker at CCN is a legitimate tossup. But this should be no contest. Also, some Texas firms will scarcely look at UT grads who aren't truly at the top (Gibson Dunn, Susman Godfrey, Vinson & Elkins, etc.); they do much of their hiring from the ivy league anyway. If I were you, I would transfer and then only bid on the elite Texas firms. If you are from Texas, it shouldn't be a problem; just explain the financial calculations. If you're not from Texas, you might have some issues.

FYI, I did several firm interviews during 1L, and none of the interviewers had gone to UT or even to schools in Texas (everything was represented -- from Stanford to Tulane).

nonprofit-prophet · Post by **nonprofit-prophet** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:51 pm

Perseus_I wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
philosoraptor wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:How do you think texas firms would react to a harvard student that transferred from UT? Do I reduce my chances of getting an offer if I'm leaving the school that most of the interviewers went to?
Why on earth would you leave UT if you wanted to stay in Texas and got good enough grades to transfer to Harvard? If you have the grades and are on a good journal, you can go anywhere regardless. I'm sure transferring wouldn't kill your chances, but it seems like an awful lot of hassle for the same result. The only really good reason I can think of is if you're sure you want academia.
Harvard would be at least 40k cheaper than UT. That's really the only reason I'm considering it.
Unless you can get UT to give you a full ride, I have no idea why you would ever even consider staying at UT. UT on a full ride vs. sticker at CCN is a legitimate tossup. But this should be no contest. Also, some Texas firms will scarcely look at UT grads who aren't truly at the top (Gibson Dunn, Susman Godfrey, Vinson & Elkins, etc.); they do much of their hiring from the ivy league anyway. If I were you, I would transfer and then only bid on the elite Texas firms. If you are from Texas, it shouldn't be a problem; just explain the financial calculations. If you're not from Texas, you might have some issues.

FYI, I did several firm interviews during 1L, and none of the interviewers had gone to UT or even to schools in Texas (everything was represented -- from Stanford to Tulane).

honestly Im not concerned about jobs out of LS. I've basically already been told I'll get an offer from one of the big 3 firms (can't reveal which one). I also have an offer from a non-big 3 firm. My first job out of either school will likely be the same firm. Really it's about money and exit options if I don't make partner.

Perseus_I · Post by **Perseus_I** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:54 pm

Then why not just enjoy Harvard?

de5igual · Post by **de5igual** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:55 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:honestly Im not concerned about jobs out of LS. I've basically already been told I'll get an offer from one of the big 3 firms (can't reveal which one). I also have an offer from a non-big 3 firm. My first job out of either school will likely be the same firm. Really it's about money and exit options if I don't make partner.

in that case, H for sure. H will open more doors than any school down the road, and it's cheaper to boot.

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