V10 First Year Associate Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Short term/Long term plans and/or goals?

To stay at the firm as long as I humanely can.

How long do you expect to? Do you expect to be forced out or lateral out somewhere of your own accord?

I don't want to be cocky, but I seriously think that I'm about as talented and competent enough to make it to the absolute last step before getting passed over for partnership (which is generally around senior associate), so I expect to last around 8 years before getting "pushed out." But general consensus is that I can stay put for a lot longer without being a partner. I don't actually know if I'd opt for that, so if something more lucrative and with a better work/life balance comes along then, I'd strongly consider it.

[5ky]

I asked this of a lot of the associates on callbacks, and got varying answers. Are there any courses you would recommend for 2Ls/3Ls for either lit or corp that would be beneficial to take?

[sundance95]

I don't want to be cocky, but I seriously think that I'm about as talented and competent enough to make it to the absolute last step before getting passed over for partnership (which is generally around senior associate).

Great, thread, ty, but I couldn't help loling at the optimistic pessimism of this.

[Anonymous User]

I asked this of a lot of the associates on callbacks, and got varying answers. Are there any courses you would recommend for 2Ls/3Ls for either lit or corp that would be beneficial to take?

You're going to get varying answers because, really, nothing is necessary. That said...

Litigators:
Legal writing
Maybe securities regulation
Maybe evidence

Corp:
A solid corp course would be good but is not necessary
Maybe securities regulation, especially for capital markets work
a targeted course on M&A is also really helpful

[Anonymous User]

I don't want to be cocky, but I seriously think that I'm about as talented and competent enough to make it to the absolute last step before getting passed over for partnership (which is generally around senior associate).

Great, thread, ty, but I couldn't help loling at the optimistic pessimism of this.

It's not *that* optimistic. Before I started, I genuinely thought I'd get kicked out around year 3 (as TLSers often mention). But the amount of talent or competency required to last until senior associate isn't that high. And these days, with in-house counsel wanting more experience out of their lawyers, sticking around until your 8th year is no longer the deathtrap it used to be, though it's still not as good as the options you get as a midlevel.

[ph14]

I don't want to be cocky, but I seriously think that I'm about as talented and competent enough to make it to the absolute last step before getting passed over for partnership (which is generally around senior associate).

Great, thread, ty, but I couldn't help loling at the optimistic pessimism of this.

It's not *that* optimistic. Before I started, I genuinely thought I'd get kicked out around year 3 (as TLSers often mention). But the amount of talent or competency required to last until senior associate isn't that high. And these days, with in-house counsel wanting more experience out of their lawyers, sticking around until your 8th year is no longer the deathtrap it used to be, though it's still not as good as the options you get as a midlevel.

can you expand on this point? what's the difference in options? what kind of things are open to you at those times?

also, did you clerk?

[Anonymous User]

I don't want to be cocky, but I seriously think that I'm about as talented and competent enough to make it to the absolute last step before getting passed over for partnership (which is generally around senior associate).

Great, thread, ty, but I couldn't help loling at the optimistic pessimism of this.

It's not *that* optimistic. Before I started, I genuinely thought I'd get kicked out around year 3 (as TLSers often mention). But the amount of talent or competency required to last until senior associate isn't that high. And these days, with in-house counsel wanting more experience out of their lawyers, sticking around until your 8th year is no longer the deathtrap it used to be, though it's still not as good as the options you get as a midlevel.

can you expand on this point? what's the difference in options? what kind of things are open to you at those times?

also, did you clerk?

Options are just more plentiful for midlevels. Other big law firms have more openings for midlevels than for seniors. Inhouse is always open, but the trend has been toward requiring more experiencing. Since those are the only two options I'd even remotely consider, thats all I've ever cared to learn about. I don't really know about government or public interest options, other than that I have many colleagues who have lateraled into very nice PI positions.

I did not clerk.

[Anonymous User]

Alright guys, I really have to rest. But I'll definitely check back tomorrow. Good night!

[concurrent fork]

Speaking of down time... how much do you have?

Except for the rare event, I usually get most weekends to myself. Haven't had to do super late nights, but I'm on track for north of 2600+ for the year.

So without weekends that's about 10 billable hrs/day, and you said you're in the office 10-12 hrs/day. Do you bill almost all of your time in the office (and is this common?) or do you end up billing some time at home?

[Anonymous User]

Someone mentioned this earlier that I think many of us are wondering: what does the hours worked to hours billed ratio look like for a 1st year?

[TXIPLitigator]

Someone mentioned this earlier that I think many of us are wondering: what does the hours worked to hours billed ratio look like for a 1st year?

Not OP, but I'm a 1st year litigator. At work for ~12 hours/day. Bill anywhere from 10-12 of that. Efficiency depends on meetings, lunch (in/out/CLE/etc), and other random events. My monthly average is ~220 billed. No weekends in the office, but occasional work from home if something comes up (usually I'm told to wait until Monday, though).

[Anonymous User]

Someone mentioned this earlier that I think many of us are wondering: what does the hours worked to hours billed ratio look like for a 1st year?

Not OP, but I'm a 1st year litigator. At work for ~12 hours/day. Bill anywhere from 10-12 of that. Efficiency depends on meetings, lunch (in/out/CLE/etc), and other random events. My monthly average is ~220 billed. No weekends in the office, but occasional work from home if something comes up (usually I'm told to wait until Monday, though).

Wow, no weekends? That goes against everything I've heard. Vault range/location?

How do you like your co-workers/bosses so far?

[TXIPLitigator]

Someone mentioned this earlier that I think many of us are wondering: what does the hours worked to hours billed ratio look like for a 1st year?

Not OP, but I'm a 1st year litigator. At work for ~12 hours/day. Bill anywhere from 10-12 of that. Efficiency depends on meetings, lunch (in/out/CLE/etc), and other random events. My monthly average is ~220 billed. No weekends in the office, but occasional work from home if something comes up (usually I'm told to wait until Monday, though).

Wow, no weekends? That goes against everything I've heard. Vault range/location?

How do you like your co-workers/bosses so far?

Would rather not say V/specific location (name gives away a bit about location).

I enjoy my coworkers. Fairly social outside work. Everyone is humane. Most have families.

[bdubs]

Since there appear to be a few litigators at high ranking Vault firms here, I've got a question for you. To what extent do you feel like your litigation department is just a support department for the corporate folks?

[irie]

Thanks for doing this!

You mentioned that you looked into exit opportunities as a midlevel v. senior associate. Could you talk a bit about which particular practice groups have an easier time going in-house than others? I guess I'm more interested in corporate work so maybe exit opportunities in M&A v. Capital Markets v. Tax. Also, if you feel comfortable, could you tell us which market you are in? I'm interested in NYC in particular but not sure if this really affects the answer to my questions above.

[Davidbentley]

Thanks for doing this!

You mentioned that you looked into exit opportunities as a midlevel v. senior associate. Could you talk a bit about which particular practice groups have an easier time going in-house than others? I guess I'm more interested in corporate work so maybe exit opportunities in M&A v. Capital Markets v. Tax. Also, if you feel comfortable, could you tell us which market you are in? I'm interested in NYC in particular but not sure if this really affects the answer to my questions above.

Would rather not say V/specific location (name gives away a bit about location).

I'm Going to go out on a limb here and guess texas.

TXiplitigator

[5ky]

Thanks for doing this!

You mentioned that you looked into exit opportunities as a midlevel v. senior associate. Could you talk a bit about which particular practice groups have an easier time going in-house than others? I guess I'm more interested in corporate work so maybe exit opportunities in M&A v. Capital Markets v. Tax. Also, if you feel comfortable, could you tell us which market you are in? I'm interested in NYC in particular but not sure if this really affects the answer to my questions above.

Would rather not say V/specific location (name gives away a bit about location).

I'm Going to go out on a limb here and guess texas.

TXiplitigator

Swing and a miss, try again.

(txiplitigator is not OP)

[goodolgil]

Would rather not say V/specific location (name gives away a bit about location).

I'm Going to go out on a limb here and guess texas.

TXiplitigator

Why do people here always do this crap?

[5ky]

Would rather not say V/specific location (name gives away a bit about location).

I'm Going to go out on a limb here and guess texas.

TXiplitigator

Why do people here always do this crap?

??? txiplitigator specifically pointed out the fact he/she works in tx, but did not want to get more specific than that.

[Davidbentley]

Swing and a miss, try again.

(txiplitigator is not OP)

well fail on me then.

[romothesavior]

Since there appear to be a few litigators at high ranking Vault firms here, I've got a question for you. To what extent do you feel like your litigation department is just a support department for the corporate folks?

wut

[Grizz]

Anything I should do as a summer associate to ensure I get an offer? Besides not fucking up royally, getting too drunk at social events, etc.

[Anonymous User]

were your 2L grades taken into account when offers were being made? did you know anyone who get dinged b/c of 2L grades?

[Guchster]

Since there appear to be a few litigators at high ranking Vault firms here, I've got a question for you. To what extent do you feel like your litigation department is just a support department for the corporate folks?

wut

just lol'd.

[Anonymous User]

Someone mentioned this earlier that I think many of us are wondering: what does the hours worked to hours billed ratio look like for a 1st year?

Not OP, but I'm a 1st year litigator. At work for ~12 hours/day. Bill anywhere from 10-12 of that. Efficiency depends on meetings, lunch (in/out/CLE/etc), and other random events. My monthly average is ~220 billed. No weekends in the office, but occasional work from home if something comes up (usually I'm told to wait until Monday, though).

Wow, no weekends? That goes against everything I've heard. Vault range/location?

How do you like your co-workers/bosses so far?

Somehow I just doubt this.

There are 52 weeks in a year, about 10 holidays, and 2 weeks vacation. That leaves 48 weeks. or 240 days. Even if you billed 10 hours every day (hard to do EVERY DAY)- that's only 2400 billiable hours. Either you are padding your billing, lying about working weekends, or lying about time at the gym or eating out. And- unless your significant other also is a young lawyer at a big law firm or a resident fresh out of law school- no SO would put up with your hours and think they were in a relationship. I'm not saying you can't do all those things- just saying you can't do them and bill a legitimate 2400-2600 hours.