Charlotte Firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

Lean staffing = job security at least, though, right?

I wonder what life is like when you're billing 2500

[Anonymous User]

Lean staffing = job security at least, though, right?

I wonder what life is like when you're billing 2500

Only until the next batch of associates takes all your work when your billing rate gets too high.

Said friend is very frequently in the office after midnight, and as late as 3am.

[Anonymous User]

Lean staffing = job security at least, though, right?

I wonder what life is like when you're billing 2500

Only until the next batch of associates takes all your work when your billing rate gets too high.

Said friend is very frequently in the office after midnight, and as late as 3am.

Welcome to biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Lean staffing = job security at least, though, right?

I wonder what life is like when you're billing 2500

Only until the next batch of associates takes all your work when your billing rate gets too high.

Said friend is very frequently in the office after midnight, and as late as 3am.

Welcome to biglaw.

I wasn't insinuating that this was especially bad for biglaw or that my friend was surprised by this lifestyle. The point here is that you can have more of a personal life on not much less income by working at one of a number of firms in the city.

[hoos89]

Lean staffing = job security at least, though, right?

I wonder what life is like when you're billing 2500

Only until the next batch of associates takes all your work when your billing rate gets too high.

Said friend is very frequently in the office after midnight, and as late as 3am.

Welcome to biglaw.

I wasn't insinuating that this was especially bad for biglaw or that my friend was surprised by this lifestyle. The point here is that you can have more of a personal life on not much less income by working at one of a number of firms in the city.

I'll push back on that a bit. The starting base salaries aren't that far apart, but even after taxes $30k + the additional bonus is far from chump change. Also, although I'm not aware of a published salary scale for a major Charlotte-based law firm, I'd be willing to bet that the disparity gets a lot bigger as associates become more senior, especially considering the recent doubling of mid-level and senior bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, New York market, scale, and bonuses go a long, long way in Charlotte.

Associate Salaries; US Offices

• Y1 $160,000
  Y2 $170,000
  Y3 $185,000
  Y4 $210,000
  Y5 $230,000
  Y6 $250,000
  Y7 $265,000
  Y8 $280,000

I think that plus bonuses basically makes you a billionaire in North Carolina. Is the difference in hours so life ruining to negate that?

[Anonymous User]

As with all firms, there are certain benefits and costs. The “avoid Cadwalader at all costs” argument is typical TLS echo-chambering nonsense.

Benefits:

The amount of money you make at Cadwalader is incredible for Charlotte ($160k + NYC market bonus).

Leaning staffing means extremely high job security, more exposure to partners, more responsibility early in career, and more opportunity for advancement (the idea that associates are getting fired because their billing rate is getting too high is ridiculous and simply wrong). Believe it or not, partners don't enjoy laying off associates. Cadwalader had to layoff a number of associates during the financial crisis and is now, through lean staffing, ensuring that layoffs won't happen again.

Cadwalader (including the Charlotte office) does extremely sophisticated securitization/derivatives work for top financial institutions (JPM/Wells/BofA/Goldman) and Cadwalader is the best at what it does (see Chambers). Cadwalader Charlotte isn’t doing regional small-town financing deals in North Carolina, the Charlotte associates are on the same deals as the NYC associates.

Cons:

NYC Hours

So yeah, if you work at Cadwalader in Charlotte you’re going to have to work hard, which I understand isn’t for everyone. However, I don’t think that the Cadwalader Charlotte hours are any worse than other NYC firms on a per group basis (the capital markets attorneys at Cadwalader in Charlotte aren’t working more hours than capital markets attorneys at other top NYC firm).

[los blancos]

ITT: Cadwalader associate not-so-stealthily defends her/his firm.

[Anonymous User]

As with all firms, there are certain benefits and costs. The “avoid Cadwalader at all costs” argument is typical TLS echo-chambering nonsense.

Benefits:

The amount of money you make at Cadwalader is incredible for Charlotte ($160k + NYC market bonus).

Leaning staffing means extremely high job security, more exposure to partners, more responsibility early in career, and more opportunity for advancement (the idea that associates are getting fired because their billing rate is getting too high is ridiculous and simply wrong). Believe it or not, partners don't enjoy laying off associates. Cadwalader had to layoff a number of associates during the financial crisis and is now, through lean staffing, ensuring that layoffs won't happen again.

Cadwalader (including the Charlotte office) does extremely sophisticated securitization/derivatives work for top financial institutions (JPM/Wells/BofA/Goldman) and Cadwalader is the best at what it does (see Chambers). Cadwalader Charlotte isn’t doing regional small-town financing deals in North Carolina, the Charlotte associates are on the same deals as the NYC associates.

Cons:

NYC Hours

So yeah, if you work at Cadwalader in Charlotte you’re going to have to work hard, which I understand isn’t for everyone. However, I don’t think that the Cadwalader Charlotte hours are any worse than other NYC firms on a per group basis (the capital markets attorneys at Cadwalader in Charlotte aren’t working more hours than capital markets attorneys at other top NYC firm).

Ha. Cap markets at Cadwalader Charlotte is worse than NYC hours. All the cap markets people leave. Attrition is incredibly high. I think it says something that the pay is higher there but that they can't keep anyone on. It's not a matter of "oh, it's NYC pay for NYC hours at Cadwalader Charlotte." I would bet that hours for cap markets in Charlotte is worse than NY.

[Anonymous User]

As with all firms, there are certain benefits and costs. The “avoid Cadwalader at all costs” argument is typical TLS echo-chambering nonsense.

Benefits:

The amount of money you make at Cadwalader is incredible for Charlotte ($160k + NYC market bonus).

Leaning staffing means extremely high job security, more exposure to partners, more responsibility early in career, and more opportunity for advancement (the idea that associates are getting fired because their billing rate is getting too high is ridiculous and simply wrong). Believe it or not, partners don't enjoy laying off associates. Cadwalader had to layoff a number of associates during the financial crisis and is now, through lean staffing, ensuring that layoffs won't happen again.

Cadwalader (including the Charlotte office) does extremely sophisticated securitization/derivatives work for top financial institutions (JPM/Wells/BofA/Goldman) and Cadwalader is the best at what it does (see Chambers). Cadwalader Charlotte isn’t doing regional small-town financing deals in North Carolina, the Charlotte associates are on the same deals as the NYC associates.

Cons:

NYC Hours

So yeah, if you work at Cadwalader in Charlotte you’re going to have to work hard, which I understand isn’t for everyone. However, I don’t think that the Cadwalader Charlotte hours are any worse than other NYC firms on a per group basis (the capital markets attorneys at Cadwalader in Charlotte aren’t working more hours than capital markets attorneys at other top NYC firm).

Also, are you an associate there or something? Are you going to deny that Cad Charlotte hemorrhages their new classes away within a year and change? The class of 2012 and 2013 who did cap markets are gone. Is this typical to you?

[mr.hands]

From everything I hear, Cadwalader Charlotte is atrocious, just an awful place to work. The turnover at that office seems to confirm that fact

[Anonymous User]

I have heard from a good source inside Cad Charlotte that a lateral move to Charlotte from a similar firm in a primary market resulted in WORSE work/life balance, and that the workload is larger for Charlotte associates than in many other offices within the firm.

And yes, working 500-600 more hours per year than at another Charlotte firm is a HUGE difference in lifestyle that you exchange for the difference in pay. It's the equivalent of working 3 extra months worth of hours in the same 12 month period.

[Anonymous User]

ITT: Cadwalader associate not-so-stealthily defends her/his firm.

Which is strange because they all seem to be interviewing for lateral positions around town and every single associate I've met from that office is absolutely miserable. Though TBF - associates at Mayer seem to be just as miserable...

[Anonymous User]

Cadwalader sounds terrible. I have a buddy at WUSTL going to the Chatlotte office and now I feel bad for him...

Does logging a few years at Cadwalader at least buy them solid exit options in Charlotte?

[Actus Reus]

Cadwalader sounds terrible. I have a buddy at WUSTL going to the Chatlotte office and now I feel bad for him...

Does logging a few years at Cadwalader at least buy them solid exit options in Charlotte?

A few years at most biglaw places will give you solid exit options. And I don't think the experiences at cadwalader here are unique. People in new york have terrible lives too, especially in cap markets where rates are changing daily and deals are being completed at insane paces.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, Mayer Brown and Dechert do the exact same work in Charlotte as Cadwalader and pay the exact same salary and bonus scales but have a significantly better reputation for work-life balance, particularly Dechert. That said, all three are NY-style big-law and will be working you hard.

But, if you have a choice, Cadwalader is probably the worst choice, easily, of the three. In this situation, I would sooner work at MVA etc. before Cadwalader, despite the large pay difference.

Regarding the pay scale question, if the best "Charlotte Firms" like MVA start at 145k (this is non MB, Dechert, CWT), the first year raise is to 152, then 160 in the 3rd year, and on at that rate of raises of between 5 and 7 k. This is a big deal, by as some1 posted above, Dechert, MB, and CWT will give raises of 10k, 15k, and later 25k from year to year. Moreover, bonus payments at those firms will be notably larger. MVA, RBH, etc. don't even pay out bonuses to many associates in recent years. That could of course change now that the market is recovering.

[FlamingDragon]

Hey, I went through the interview process at all of these firms and will be working at one of the national firms discussed above (MB, Dechert, CWT) - if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me.

[Dr. Review]

Hey, I went through the interview process at all of these firms and will be working at one of the national firms discussed above (MB, Dechert, CWT) - if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me.

Would you like to borrow my DVD of Simple Jack?

[FlamingDragon]

Hey, I went through the interview process at all of these firms and will be working at one of the national firms discussed above (MB, Dechert, CWT) - if anyone has any questions feel free to PM me.

Would you like to borrow my DVD of Simple Jack?

Naw, I still have Tug Speedman held hostage.