CLS EIP 2011 Forum

[swc65]

Any idea if there is a system for trading time slots? I'm happy with what I got, but I have a couple random morning interviews where I have to down to Times Sq first thing in the morning for only 20 min. I don't want to drop those firms, but would love to lose the awkward 4-hour gap in the middle. Can we trade with others who have same firm/same day to reduce unnecessary commuting and general craziness?

I havent heard of any, but this is a great idea.

[Bramwell]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

You are posting anonymously, so I suppose I can ask, did you actually blow it last year in terms of the way that you handled yourself at interviews?

[Anonymous User]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

What did you expect?

Was expecting 1 or 2 interviews up until about a month and a half ago because common consensus for the last few years has been that 3L EIP is virtually nonexistent. I thought that I might get like 5 or 6 after I saw the list of firms interviewing 3Ls since a lot of firms were on it (at least compared to what I had heard about prior years). I guess that maybe more people are participating in 3L EIP this year though, or maybe the interviewers are only leaving like 5 interview slots open for the 3L class. Dunno. I just saw a thread about Columbia EIP, got excited, and wanted to join in the fun.

[Anonymous User]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

You are posting anonymously, so I suppose I can ask, did you actually blow it last year in terms of the way that you handled yourself at interviews?

Short answer: I'm probably not an unusually talented interviewer, but I don't think that being a poor interviewer was my main problem.

Long answer: In the past, virtually all CLS students landed jobs with V100 firms through EIP. As long as you didn't drop a bunch of racial slurs while walking around the Double Tree, get overly drunk at the hotel bar before heading up for your screening interviews, or steal too many things from the hotel rooms while you were still in front of your interviewers, the world of BigLaw eagerly accepted you into its ranks. In recent years, I would estimate that the percentage of CLS students who can land a job through EIP has dropped to about 65%. Transfers tend to do a bit better than non-transfers, and I would guess that about 85% of transfers get at least one offer. After accounting for the large size of the transfer class, I would estimate that about 60% of non-transfers will get at least one offer from EIP. Stated slightly differently, the supply of CLS students currently exceeds the demand for them by a pretty significant margin.

What percentage of CLS students are so horrible at interviewing that it will cause them to be unemployable? To be fair, there are some pretty douchey people at Columbia. However, I would guess that the percentage for whom douchebaggery will be a serious hindrance probably isn't that high. Maybe 5%. Even some of the most awkward and offensive people that I know can still keep it together during a 20 minute screening interview or a 4 hour callback. You'll talk about sports, about practice areas that you're interested in, and about how humid or hot it is outside. Unless the person interviewing you is a hiring partner, interviewing skills (or lack thereof) probably only come into play if you are the single best or single worst interviewer that the person you're meeting with has seen that day.

So, lets return to that 35% strike-out figure that I listed above. Columbia (and to some extent the law firms that recruit from Columbia) are going to need to explain why 35% of the students at the fourth best law school in the country suddenly can't get a job that will enable them to pay back the astronomical loans that they took out in order to finance their education. It would be easy to say that we're going through a tough economy right now and that some people just slip through the cracks. But it would be even easier to blame the students. Say that they're lazy and not networking hard enough. Say that the classes after the Class of 2009 forgot how to interview. And say that the students are coming up with bad EIP bid lists. Viola. Problem solved.

Following EIP, I ended up with 3 callbacks in my hometown (think Chi, DC, LA, SF, etc...). Each place hired 2-4 SAs, and all of the SAs came from local schools because those were the schools that most of the partners went to. To be fair, the schools that they hired from were all very good schools, and if the firms can only bring in a few people during a massive recession, they want to make sure that they strengthen their ties with the schools that they figure they'll mainly be recruiting from later on. But honestly, I felt like I could have walked into each of those interviews looking like Johnny Depp, analyzing things like Learned Hand, and eating my meals with the poise, grace, and silverware handling skills of a fifth grade cotillion teacher and still struck out.

[azntwice]

24 interviews, all ny. Didn't get Kramer at 10 though.

[timbs4339]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

What did you expect?

Was expecting 1 or 2 interviews up until about a month and a half ago because common consensus for the last few years has been that 3L EIP is virtually nonexistent. I thought that I might get like 5 or 6 after I saw the list of firms interviewing 3Ls since a lot of firms were on it (at least compared to what I had heard about prior years). I guess that maybe more people are participating in 3L EIP this year though, or maybe the interviewers are only leaving like 5 interview slots open for the 3L class. Dunno. I just saw a thread about Columbia EIP, got excited, and wanted to join in the fun.

I hope I didn't come off as rude. I'm in the same boat, unemployed rising 3L. Talking to c/o 2011, it seems like 1-2 interviews was the average for 3L EIP. Many people who had SA jobs this summer signed up for 3L EIP knowing they will cancel their schedules if they get an offer- of course, offers usually come after bidding and add/drop period are over. A ton of firms will be making offers this week, apparently. Whether those students, in their drunken haze, will remember to cancel their bidding schedules before add/drop is another question.

[timbs4339]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

You are posting anonymously, so I suppose I can ask, did you actually blow it last year in terms of the way that you handled yourself at interviews?

Short answer: I'm probably not an unusually talented interviewer, but I don't think that being a poor interviewer was my main problem.

Long answer: In the past, virtually all CLS students landed jobs with V100 firms through EIP. As long as you didn't drop a bunch of racial slurs while walking around the Double Tree, get overly drunk at the hotel bar before heading up for your screening interviews, or steal too many things from the hotel rooms while you were still in front of your interviewers, the world of BigLaw eagerly accepted you into its ranks. In recent years, I would estimate that the percentage of CLS students who can land a job through EIP has dropped to about 65%. Transfers tend to do a bit better than non-transfers, and I would guess that about 85% of transfers get at least one offer. After accounting for the large size of the transfer class, I would estimate that about 60% of non-transfers will get at least one offer from EIP. Stated slightly differently, the supply of CLS students currently exceeds the demand for them by a pretty significant margin.

What percentage of CLS students are so horrible at interviewing that it will cause them to be unemployable? To be fair, there are some pretty douchey people at Columbia. However, I would guess that the percentage for whom douchebaggery will be a serious hindrance probably isn't that high. Maybe 5%. Even some of the most awkward and offensive people that I know can still keep it together during a 20 minute screening interview or a 4 hour callback. You'll talk about sports, about practice areas that you're interested in, and about how humid or hot it is outside. Unless the person interviewing you is a hiring partner, interviewing skills (or lack thereof) probably only come into play if you are the single best or single worst interviewer that the person you're meeting with has seen that day.

So, lets return to that 35% strike-out figure that I listed above. Columbia (and to some extent the law firms that recruit from Columbia) are going to need to explain why 35% of the students at the fourth best law school in the country suddenly can't get a job that will enable them to pay back the astronomical loans that they took out in order to finance their education. It would be easy to say that we're going through a tough economy right now and that some people just slip through the cracks. But it would be even easier to blame the students. Say that they're lazy and not networking hard enough. Say that the classes after the Class of 2009 forgot how to interview. And say that the students are coming up with bad EIP bid lists. Viola. Problem solved.

Following EIP, I ended up with 3 callbacks in my hometown (think Chi, DC, LA, SF, etc...). Each place hired 2-4 SAs, and all of the SAs came from local schools because those were the schools that most of the partners went to. To be fair, the schools that they hired from were all very good schools, and if the firms can only bring in a few people during a massive recession, they want to make sure that they strengthen their ties with the schools that they figure they'll mainly be recruiting from later on. But honestly, I felt like I could have walked into each of those interviews looking like Johnny Depp, analyzing things like Learned Hand, and eating my meals with the poise, grace, and silverware handling skills of a fifth grade cotillion teacher and still struck out.

Everything said in this post is spot on.

[quakeroats]

Viola. Problem solved.

You're not helping your case: http://youtu.be/N0fINE8jfA8?t=9s

[sunynp]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

You are posting anonymously, so I suppose I can ask, did you actually blow it last year in terms of the way that you handled yourself at interviews?

Short answer: I'm probably not an unusually talented interviewer, but I don't think that being a poor interviewer was my main problem.

Long answer: In the past, virtually all CLS students landed jobs with V100 firms through EIP. As long as you didn't drop a bunch of racial slurs while walking around the Double Tree, get overly drunk at the hotel bar before heading up for your screening interviews, or steal too many things from the hotel rooms while you were still in front of your interviewers, the world of BigLaw eagerly accepted you into its ranks. In recent years, I would estimate that the percentage of CLS students who can land a job through EIP has dropped to about 65%. Transfers tend to do a bit better than non-transfers, and I would guess that about 85% of transfers get at least one offer. After accounting for the large size of the transfer class, I would estimate that about 60% of non-transfers will get at least one offer from EIP. Stated slightly differently, the supply of CLS students currently exceeds the demand for them by a pretty significant margin.

What percentage of CLS students are so horrible at interviewing that it will cause them to be unemployable? To be fair, there are some pretty douchey people at Columbia. However, I would guess that the percentage for whom douchebaggery will be a serious hindrance probably isn't that high. Maybe 5%. Even some of the most awkward and offensive people that I know can still keep it together during a 20 minute screening interview or a 4 hour callback. You'll talk about sports, about practice areas that you're interested in, and about how humid or hot it is outside. Unless the person interviewing you is a hiring partner, interviewing skills (or lack thereof) probably only come into play if you are the single best or single worst interviewer that the person you're meeting with has seen that day.

So, lets return to that 35% strike-out figure that I listed above. Columbia (and to some extent the law firms that recruit from Columbia) are going to need to explain why 35% of the students at the fourth best law school in the country suddenly can't get a job that will enable them to pay back the astronomical loans that they took out in order to finance their education. It would be easy to say that we're going through a tough economy right now and that some people just slip through the cracks. But it would be even easier to blame the students. Say that they're lazy and not networking hard enough. Say that the classes after the Class of 2009 forgot how to interview. And say that the students are coming up with bad EIP bid lists. Viola. Problem solved.

Following EIP, I ended up with 3 callbacks in my hometown (think Chi, DC, LA, SF, etc...). Each place hired 2-4 SAs, and all of the SAs came from local schools because those were the schools that most of the partners went to. To be fair, the schools that they hired from were all very good schools, and if the firms can only bring in a few people during a massive recession, they want to make sure that they strengthen their ties with the schools that they figure they'll mainly be recruiting from later on. But honestly, I felt like I could have walked into each of those interviews looking like Johnny Depp, analyzing things like Learned Hand, and eating my meals with the poise, grace, and silverware handling skills of a fifth grade cotillion teacher and still struck out.

Everything said in this post is spot on.

To CLS 3L - at least you have two decent shots. Just please don't be bitter or defensive about where you are in the process. You were screwed by the bidding process somewhat by not focusing on NYC firms. I know you will make the most of the interviews you have. I hope you use all the hospitality suites too in order to make connections. I think you will be ok eventually but that doesn't mean the process is challenging. I think you can do it. Good luck and thanks for sharing your situation.

[Anonymous User]

currently tweaking my bidlist for eip @ hls, and would value any insight ppl here might have.

any idea how high i need to bid on the big ny v10 firms in order to be fairly assured of an interview? were you guys able to get interviews with cleary, skadden, simpson, ect without having them in your top 10 generally? thanks

bump? i'm aiming for a ny, but am also trying to decide whether i can afford to spend a few top 10 bids on d.c. firms. im essentially trying to figure out whether i need to bid on places like cleary, that conduct millions of interviews, very high in order to get an interview.

[Anonymous User]

Any idea if there is a system for trading time slots? I'm happy with what I got, but I have a couple random morning interviews where I have to down to Times Sq first thing in the morning for only 20 min. I don't want to drop those firms, but would love to lose the awkward 4-hour gap in the middle. Can we trade with others who have same firm/same day to reduce unnecessary commuting and general craziness?

Word of advice - EIP is exhausting for both you and the interviewers, so if it were my schedule, I wouldn't change it. (1) The gap in the middle will let you relax, go get some coffee, sit down for a bit; (2) morning interviews can be good - interviewers are also pretty tired by the end of the day, and the more tired they get, the more work they will make you do (and you're already exhausted because it's the end of the day).

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

You are posting anonymously, so I suppose I can ask, did you actually blow it last year in terms of the way that you handled yourself at interviews?

Short answer: I'm probably not an unusually talented interviewer, but I don't think that being a poor interviewer was my main problem.

Long answer: In the past, virtually all CLS students landed jobs with V100 firms through EIP. As long as you didn't drop a bunch of racial slurs while walking around the Double Tree, get overly drunk at the hotel bar before heading up for your screening interviews, or steal too many things from the hotel rooms while you were still in front of your interviewers, the world of BigLaw eagerly accepted you into its ranks. In recent years, I would estimate that the percentage of CLS students who can land a job through EIP has dropped to about 65%. Transfers tend to do a bit better than non-transfers, and I would guess that about 85% of transfers get at least one offer. After accounting for the large size of the transfer class, I would estimate that about 60% of non-transfers will get at least one offer from EIP. Stated slightly differently, the supply of CLS students currently exceeds the demand for them by a pretty significant margin.

What percentage of CLS students are so horrible at interviewing that it will cause them to be unemployable? To be fair, there are some pretty douchey people at Columbia. However, I would guess that the percentage for whom douchebaggery will be a serious hindrance probably isn't that high. Maybe 5%. Even some of the most awkward and offensive people that I know can still keep it together during a 20 minute screening interview or a 4 hour callback. You'll talk about sports, about practice areas that you're interested in, and about how humid or hot it is outside. Unless the person interviewing you is a hiring partner, interviewing skills (or lack thereof) probably only come into play if you are the single best or single worst interviewer that the person you're meeting with has seen that day.

So, lets return to that 35% strike-out figure that I listed above. Columbia (and to some extent the law firms that recruit from Columbia) are going to need to explain why 35% of the students at the fourth best law school in the country suddenly can't get a job that will enable them to pay back the astronomical loans that they took out in order to finance their education. It would be easy to say that we're going through a tough economy right now and that some people just slip through the cracks. But it would be even easier to blame the students. Say that they're lazy and not networking hard enough. Say that the classes after the Class of 2009 forgot how to interview. And say that the students are coming up with bad EIP bid lists. Viola. Problem solved.

Following EIP, I ended up with 3 callbacks in my hometown (think Chi, DC, LA, SF, etc...). Each place hired 2-4 SAs, and all of the SAs came from local schools because those were the schools that most of the partners went to. To be fair, the schools that they hired from were all very good schools, and if the firms can only bring in a few people during a massive recession, they want to make sure that they strengthen their ties with the schools that they figure they'll mainly be recruiting from later on. But honestly, I felt like I could have walked into each of those interviews looking like Johnny Depp, analyzing things like Learned Hand, and eating my meals with the poise, grace, and silverware handling skills of a fifth grade cotillion teacher and still struck out.

I think interview skills play a bigger role than that - I'm not an amazing interviewer, but I don't think I'm that horrendous either, and I had good numbers but just barely made it. Not that so many students are "objectively" horrible interviewers, but firms need something to pick something for weeding people out when hiring is down. In any case, as others have already pointed out, more 3L slots are likely to open up as people cancel interviews. Hopefully it'll be in time for add-drop for you instead of relying that white board downstairs.

[Anonymous User]

2/25, focussed mainly on New York, but I'm a 3L. Basically, don't blow 2L EIP kids because 3L EIP is a cruel cruel joke

What did you expect?

Was expecting 1 or 2 interviews up until about a month and a half ago because common consensus for the last few years has been that 3L EIP is virtually nonexistent. I thought that I might get like 5 or 6 after I saw the list of firms interviewing 3Ls since a lot of firms were on it (at least compared to what I had heard about prior years). I guess that maybe more people are participating in 3L EIP this year though, or maybe the interviewers are only leaving like 5 interview slots open for the 3L class. Dunno. I just saw a thread about Columbia EIP, got excited, and wanted to join in the fun.

I hope I didn't come off as rude. I'm in the same boat, unemployed rising 3L. Talking to c/o 2011, it seems like 1-2 interviews was the average for 3L EIP. Many people who had SA jobs this summer signed up for 3L EIP knowing they will cancel their schedules if they get an offer- of course, offers usually come after bidding and add/drop period are over. A ton of firms will be making offers this week, apparently. Whether those students, in their drunken haze, will remember to cancel their bidding schedules before add/drop is another question.

Hey, no worries. You didn't come across as rude. A lot of us are going through this right now. It'll be nice to see other 3Ls at EIP (I imagine that we won't exactly be the only ones...). We should set up some tables for all of the cool kids in the back of the room or something.

To CLS 3L - at least you have two decent shots. Just please don't be bitter or defensive about where you are in the process. You were screwed by the bidding process somewhat by not focusing on NYC firms. I know you will make the most of the interviews you have. I hope you use all the hospitality suites too in order to make connections. I think you will be ok eventually but that doesn't mean the process is challenging. I think you can do it. Good luck and thanks for sharing your situation.

Sorry if I sound bitter or defensive, and thank you for the encouragement. To be fair, I probably should have focussed my bidding on New York. I'm mainly just sick of seeing people always immediately trying to chalk up my and my classmates' inability to land a job to poor interviewing and networking, as these things only affect a pretty small portion of the class. After all, like 95% of CLS students could land one of these jobs in the past. We couldn't all have gotten that horrible at interviewing and networking over the last few years, could we?

The bottom line is that there aren't enough jobs to go around. We could all go out and wholly dedicate ourselves to perfecting the craft of interviewing, and we wouldn't all get jobs. Even some of the finest interviewers that I have ever had the privilege of knowing struck out last year. If an office has hiring targets for different schools and you aren't going to one of those schools, you might get a callback (because the office doesn't want students to find out that no one from your school got a callback the previous year) but still have no legitimate shot at landing a job.

[timbs4339]

Hey, no worries. You didn't come across as rude. A lot of us are going through this right now. It'll be nice to see other 3Ls at EIP (I imagine that we won't exactly be the only ones...). We should set up some tables for all of the cool kids in the back of the room or something.

Sure. I'll be there at 7:15 sharp. Make sure we exclude anyone who's trying to trade up for prestige's sake. They deserve to be doused in Doubletree buffet food.

[Lawyerhead]

I think interview skills play a bigger role than that - I'm not an amazing interviewer, but I don't think I'm that horrendous either, and I had good numbers but just barely made it. Not that so many students are "objectively" horrible interviewers, but firms need something to pick something for weeding people out when hiring is down. In any case, as others have already pointed out, more 3L slots are likely to open up as people cancel interviews. Hopefully it'll be in time for add-drop for you instead of relying that white board downstairs.

Interview skills matter A LOT. I can almost guarantee you, if the interview is an awkward 30 minutes, an interviewer is going to be less likely to give you a favorable review.

[somewhatwayward]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

[cosmopolitan]

I'm at NYU and we're moving to the Doubletree for EIW. Any logistical insight you guys have to offer?

[timbs4339]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

You're surprised that the Columbia Law administration would ever inconvenience students by not doing simple tasks? Shocking!

[somewhatwayward]

^
LOL I guess that's why I said 'kind of'

Depressing they care so little

[swc65]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

Mid-August: Course lottery is run; lottery results (student course schedules) posted in LAWNET by Friday, August 12.

Addendum H on that registration memo.

Do they wait for transfers to put in their bids or something? In any event, I don't think Aug 12 is that late since classes don't start until Sept. 6th.

[Anonymous User]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

Mid-August: Course lottery is run; lottery results (student course schedules) posted in LAWNET by Friday, August 12.

Addendum H on that registration memo.

Do they wait for transfers to put in their bids or something? In any event, I don't think Aug 12 is that late since classes don't start until Sept. 6th.

From personal experience, they do wait for transfers. Then again, 8/12 is still pretty late, and it could be nice to be able to talk about classes they know they're actually taking during interviews. Journal decisions were late for transfers last year, too (we only heard during the day before EIP) - is that the case this year?

[swc65]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

Mid-August: Course lottery is run; lottery results (student course schedules) posted in LAWNET by Friday, August 12.

Addendum H on that registration memo.

Do they wait for transfers to put in their bids or something? In any event, I don't think Aug 12 is that late since classes don't start until Sept. 6th.

From personal experience, they do wait for transfers. Then again, 8/12 is still pretty late, and it could be nice to be able to talk about classes they know they're actually taking during interviews. Journal decisions were late for transfers last year, too (we only heard during the day before EIP) - is that the case this year?

Ya I agree with that. Also, I have completely forgotten what classes I signed up for!!! Anyone know where we can find our bidlist for that?

[timbs4339]

a little off-topic but.....does anyone know when we find out our schedules for fall? i have been checking lawnet, and i am kind of surprised they aren't up yet.

Mid-August: Course lottery is run; lottery results (student course schedules) posted in LAWNET by Friday, August 12.

Addendum H on that registration memo.

Do they wait for transfers to put in their bids or something? In any event, I don't think Aug 12 is that late since classes don't start until Sept. 6th.

It also screws with my planning as I'm trying to line up internships and work. I need to know when I'll be available and if I have days where I don't have to be at school.

[Anonymous User]

c/o 2011 unemployed here. I haven't had a job interview since last august.

I can tell you guys that the next 13 months are going to be hell. Absolute living hell. The best advice I can give you is mass mail now and then again after first semester. Most importantly is to deal with the head of cso directly. Firms will look for people and not want to post jobs on symplicity so they will tell her. I know several people who got biglaw this way.

I have no other advice. Maybe take classes full of llms to boost the transcript. I just missed kent the last two years doing this.

[timbs4339]

c/o 2011 unemployed here. I haven't had a job interview since last august.

I can tell you guys that the next 13 months are going to be hell. Absolute living hell. The best advice I can give you is mass mail now and then again after first semester. Most importantly is to deal with the head of cso directly. Firms will look for people and not want to post jobs on symplicity so they will tell her. I know several people who got biglaw this way.

I have no other advice. Maybe take classes full of llms to boost the transcript. I just missed kent the last two years doing this.

How many people got federal gov, or clerkships? Did you mass mail? If so what were the results?

[Anonymous User]

Oh public interest? c/o 2011 not only got like 40 percent reduction in biglaw hiring but we were subjected to budget and hiring freezes by the government.