Let's Talk Split Summers Forum

[Grizz]

First, a global note: no employer is looking to "ding" you for whatever reason they can, just to do it. They do it to differentiate between candidates *when they have to*. If there is no need to differentiate, there is no need to ding or to no-offer.

Firms wouldn't allow you to split or pay you to come for 6-8 weeks if they didn't view you as a potential candidate for full-time employment. They are not looking to no-offer people, because their business model is based on robust associate hiring and 100% offer rates are becoming the norm once again. Is your risk of being no-offered higher? Maybe, but I don't think there's enough data to say one way or the other. The important thing is that the two firms you choose are not hesitant/wary about it, that you work your tail off at *both* jobs, and that you make it clear (through your actions, not just by saying so) that you are not splitting just so you can hedge your bets, take a vacation in a west coast market, or some other stupid reason. Remember, the presumption when you are an SA is that you will get an offer if you are a good fit, are competent at your job, and come across as taking the position seriously. Do these things and I think you will do OK.

Some firms will offer most or all of their 6 week people. Some will offer like half. It depends on the firm. There is data on this out there. The South is not NYC, bro.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.

Is this still true of V&E and B&B?

[kalvano]

Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.

Is this still true of V&E and B&B?

Yes and (I assume Bickel & Brewer) sort of. B&B offers both a first and second half program. I don't know if you can do a full summer.

[PDaddy]

i'm actually wondering about this too. assuming i even have the chance at splitting in two different cities, how is that looked upon?

This may not be representative, but I have a friend who split a summer between Paul Weiss (NY) and Alston & Bird (Atlanta, GA), and she received offers from both: $160K per year plus $35K Bonus. She was barely in the top half of her 2009 class at Penn. She's still at Paul Weiss in NY, which put her on hold and paid her about $80K per year NOT to work over the last two years.

My point is that, although this was an absolute best case scenario (especially given the economy), the best case scenario is possible if you kick ass. Handle your business correctly, make a good impression, ask the right questions and make the right comments at dinner with the partners, show up early and leave late, drink very little (or abstain from drinking), and remember that even the smallest things matter in firm life.

[Grizz]

i'm actually wondering about this too. assuming i even have the chance at splitting in two different cities, how is that looked upon?

This may not be representative, but I have a friend who split a summer between Paul Weiss (NY) and Alston & Bird (Atlanta, GA), and she received offers from both: $160K per year plus $35K Bonus. She was barely in the top half of her 2009 class at Penn. She's still at Paul Weiss in NY, which put her on hold and paid her about $80K per year NOT to work over the last two years.

lol 2009

[Aqualibrium]

Pdaddy, why did you even make that last post? Why are you posting all this woman's info, pointing people to where to find her, and then expecting that some douchebag won't post her name? You need to remove that post.

[de5igual]

Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.

Is this still true of V&E and B&B?

Yes and (I assume Bickel & Brewer) sort of. B&B offers both a first and second half program. I don't know if you can do a full summer.

I know for V&E, most people do first half, but they've recently instituted a 10-week program modeled after NYC. You have the option to do it, but I'm not sure if the firm would prefer that over first half only.

[kalvano]

V&E just listed a first-half program for us. May be different for people at real schools.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on whether or not there are negative consequences to spending a shifted-but-full summer at one firm (#1 choice in current market of interest, looking for full-time offer), and an abbreviated summer at another firm (#1 choice in future market of interest, potential lateral option)? Neither market is in the South.

Both firms indicate that they would be open to such an arrangement in their marketing materials, but not sure how this translates in real life.

[Anonymous User]

V&E just listed a first-half program for us. May be different for people at real schools.

From what I understand, BB and VE at least are trying to move toward a 10 week first summer half program where you could work less weeks, but they still need to be the first firm you work for...

[Anonymous User]

Does asking to split the summer between two offices of the same firm potentially show the same lack of commitment (to the office that gave you the summer offer) as asking to split the summer between two different firms? I've accepted a SA offer from an office of a firm that has its main office in another city. I am originally from the city where the firm is headquartered; I went to UG there and my entire immediate & extended family lives there, so I have good reasons for wanting to spend part of my summer there and possibly work there permanently. However, I do love the office I've already committed to working in and don't want to put myself in a position to get no-offered by both offices.

On a related note, what is the protocol for asking the firm if I can split my summer between two offices? Do I talk to legal recruiting?

Thanks.

[drylo]

Any thoughts on whether or not there are negative consequences to spending a shifted-but-full summer at one firm (#1 choice in current market of interest, looking for full-time offer), and an abbreviated summer at another firm (#1 choice in future market of interest, potential lateral option)? Neither market is in the South.

Both firms indicate that they would be open to such an arrangement in their marketing materials, but not sure how this translates in real life.

If you think you can ask--and explain why you want to do that--in a classy and otherwise appropriate way, then ask.

[Anonymous User]

So it looks like my OCI cycle is coming to a close pretty soon, and I currently have offers from two cities. I know splitting is a non-issue in Texas markets, but how does it look to split between Dallas and Houston? I was hoping to get a first half and second half in the same city, but unfortunately, things didn't pan out like that. I'm just afraid that both firms would find me as being not committed to its city and no-offer me. Anyone with any first-hand experience? advice?

[Anonymous User]

I probably will finish firm A's 10 week program, and then work with firm B for 4-5 weeks.
Firm A doesn't care as long as I start with them and clear conflicts.
Firm B is a small/mid firm that's willing to be flexible and work out the schedule with me.
A is litigation. B has no litigation practice.

Any caveat for this plan so far?

[Anonymous User]

I probably will finish firm A's 10 week program, and then work with firm B for 4-5 weeks.
Firm A doesn't care as long as I start with them and clear conflicts.
Firm B is a small/mid firm that's willing to be flexible and work out the schedule with me.
A is litigation. B has no litigation practice.

Any caveat for this plan so far?

The only problem is that I think you're overestimating the # of weeks there are in the summer. Anything over 12 weeks isn't really that feasible.

[Anonymous User]

I probably will finish firm A's 10 week program, and then work with firm B for 4-5 weeks.
Firm A doesn't care as long as I start with them and clear conflicts.
Firm B is a small/mid firm that's willing to be flexible and work out the schedule with me.
A is litigation. B has no litigation practice.

Any caveat for this plan so far?

The only problem is that I think you're overestimating the # of weeks there are in the summer. Anything over 12 weeks isn't really that feasible.

I might take less classes and only evening classes in the fall semester. Should be fine if I only miss classes for the first couple of weeks. My school is not cut-throat.

Part of the reason is that I want to earn some more $... Would that be a problem? I'm a bit concerned about being burned out.

[DoubleChecks]

Question re Texas:
I spend first half in a 6-8 week program. Can I just peace out of summer employment and get a tan on the southern shores of Italy, or will the first half firm think ill of me for not summering the second half?

If you are completing the firms full-length summer, then fuck yeah--vacation ahoy. If you are talking about trying to work a shorter than standard (for that firm) summer, or essentially "split" your summer so you can lay on the beach, you have found a good way to make sure you have plenty of time to lay your unemployed ass on the beach after graduation

Your advice probably holds for any market besides Texas. In TX, firms encourage splits (with most firms essentially mandating them by only having a six week "first half" program at the very beginning of summer) and not splitting can be taken as a negative (as in, you couldn't secure something second half).

I don't think splitting is as encouraged anymore (and not splitting is certainly not looked down upon) -- or at least TX is trending away from it. Also, the many firms that are "first half only" usually run longer than 6 weeks with 8-10 week options for those that choose not to split. And because so many are all "first half only"...it makes it damned hard to split as they often have the same window of time (~10 weeks) and the same start date, so you can't physically split 6/6.

On the other end, I can only think of a handful of firms in Houston that are strictly second half firms. Firms are also verbally encouraging staying the whole time at the firm now, rather than splitting. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few more years, splitting in Houston (and TX in general) is even tougher.

[DoubleChecks]

I know for V&E, most people do first half, but they've recently instituted a 10-week program modeled after NYC. You have the option to do it, but I'm not sure if the firm would prefer that over first half only.

If you are willing to take them at their word, they prefer you stay as long as possible. At least in Houston, V&E's move to this model with a mandatory start date is really so that a Baker Botts/Fulbright/Haynes Boone/etc. split in Houston is not possible. In fact, it leaves very few firms as an option for a split (Andrews Kurth, Mayer Brown are two that readily come to mind...and they make out a large part of a very short list).

[Anonymous User]

Do you need to tell your firm that you are splitting? If you can complete their entire program, with the dates that they set and don't need to make any special arrangements, do you still have to notify them?

[Anonymous User]

Those of you who landed first-half only for big tex-

What are you gonna do with the back end of your summer? Scrimp for a small firm to pick up the last 5-6 weeks? Go backpacking? Study abroad?

[DoubleChecks]

Do you need to tell your firm that you are splitting? If you can complete their entire program, with the dates that they set and don't need to make any special arrangements, do you still have to notify them?

I think they usually provide you with more paperwork later on that would get into that. I don't believe you need to go out of your way to notify them now, if splitting can definitely be accomplished given the schedules (i.e. you have a first half program and a second half program).

[Anonymous User]

Do you need to tell your firm that you are splitting? If you can complete their entire program, with the dates that they set and don't need to make any special arrangements, do you still have to notify them?

I think they usually provide you with more paperwork later on that would get into that. I don't believe you need to go out of your way to notify them now, if splitting can definitely be accomplished given the schedules (i.e. you have a first half program and a second half program).

Not a 1/2 summer program; I'm looking for a volunteer placement for 6 weeks or less.

[Anonymous User]

So it looks like my OCI cycle is coming to a close pretty soon, and I currently have offers from two cities. I know splitting is a non-issue in Texas markets, but how does it look to split between Dallas and Houston? I was hoping to get a first half and second half in the same city, but unfortunately, things didn't pan out like that. I'm just afraid that both firms would find me as being not committed to its city and no-offer me. Anyone with any first-hand experience? advice?

bump

[Anonymous User]

Do you need to tell your firm that you are splitting? If you can complete their entire program, with the dates that they set and don't need to make any special arrangements, do you still have to notify them?

I think they usually provide you with more paperwork later on that would get into that. I don't believe you need to go out of your way to notify them now, if splitting can definitely be accomplished given the schedules (i.e. you have a first half program and a second half program).

Not a 1/2 summer program; I'm looking for a volunteer placement for 6 weeks or less.

So a first half firm, then a volunteer position 2nd half? Don't know why that would be any different (if anything, firm would be just as happy [probably happier] to accommodate).

No idea how this post came out anon -- it's me DC again

[Ofta3184]

Is it possible to do a 5wk/5wk split or do firms usually make you do a full 6 weeks? I ask because my school only has a 10-week summer