Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen, & Katz Questions Forum

[SuperCool23]

Hell i wouldnt mind working there

[Danteshek]

A high school classmate of mine (YLS '07) just left the dark side (Wachtell) to go to the darker side (Goldman Sachs). I kinda feel sorry for him.

[Renzo]

A high school classmate of mine (YLS '07) just left the dark side (Wachtell) to go to the darker side (Goldman Sachs). I kinda feel sorry for him.

Yeah. I often feel sorry for rich and successful people at the pinnacle of their chosen profession.

[seriouslyinformative]

I only find it humorous because the conclusion was drawn from counting lawyers on the website. Talk about drawing the wrong conclusion from the premises.

I have no trouble conceding that HLS and CLS are superior schools. I have no trouble conceding that they might be better at biglaw placement. I do have trouble with the reasoning supporting those conclusions, though. And I feel pity that you seem capable only of framing this discussion in terms a bitter NYU student.

[Danteshek]

A high school classmate of mine (YLS '07) just left the dark side (Wachtell) to go to the darker side (Goldman Sachs). I kinda feel sorry for him.

Yeah. I often feel sorry for rich and successful people at the pinnacle of their chosen profession.

I feel sorry for you, too.

[rayiner]

which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

The data you have isn't nearly strong enough to support your conclusion. Once you go through OCI and see all of the factors that go into hiring, you'll understand that.

[thecilent]

A high school classmate of mine (YLS '07) just left the dark side (Wachtell) to go to the darker side (Goldman Sachs). I kinda feel sorry for him.

Yeah. I often feel sorry for rich and successful people at the pinnacle of their chosen profession.

lol

[liLtuneChi]

Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

2) It's humorous that people here seem to think Wachtell prefers CLS or HLS students to NYU. HLS I can't confirm. But there's documentary evidence that they gave more offers to NYU students than to CLS students both this year and last. I can't confirm for other years, since I haven't seen th data.

listen dude

I'm not here to get into some dick-measuring competition about my school is better than your school BS. I pretty much only care about the god honest truth.

I'll tell you that as a CLS student, the data we got from career services said that last year 79 CLS students interviewed for WLRK and they handed out 4 offers (only 2 accepted). I read in another thread from a HLS student that about 75 people interviewed for WLRK at that school and they also handed out 4 offers (all 4 accepted).

If NYU students got 5+ offers last year then it shouldn't be a surprise. So stop BSing and either drop the data so we can have it independently confirmed by other NYU students or STFU.

I personally don't care about this whole my school is better than your school BS. JUST GIVE ME THE FACTS.

[liLtuneChi]

which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

The data you have isn't nearly strong enough to support your conclusion. Once you go through OCI and see all of the factors that go into hiring, you'll understand that.

I already went thru OCI lite. I'm a rising 2L with a SA position and had several callbacks with other firms. I already have enough practice on how the little dance goes.

[rayiner]

which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

The data you have isn't nearly strong enough to support your conclusion. Once you go through OCI and see all of the factors that go into hiring, you'll understand that.

I already went thru OCI lite. I'm a rising 2L with a SA position and had several callbacks with other firms. I already have enough practice on how the little dance goes.

OCI lite isn't what smacks you with the knowledge. It's about seeing all your friends go through OCI and seeing how where they end up isn't some predictable function of school prestige grades such that you could use a simple attorney count on a firm website to predict whether a firm looked upon one school or another more favorably.

[Renzo]

Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

l missed this post earlier. You understand that there's a difference between providing financial services legal advice to private equity groups, and being an M&A lawyer on a transaction that happens to involve a private equity buyer/seller, right? Even in that group you mentioned, Eisenberg is a private equity lawyer, and Doug Ryder is an M&A lawyer. A PE group often needs both types of lawyers, but that doesn't mean that they're the same, or that the same firms are well regarded for both.

[liLtuneChi]

which is why I was surprised that have a decent number more lawyers (45 to 32) from CLS than NYU when all the name partners are from NYU.......this isn't even taking into consideration the fact that NYU is larger than CLS. I think HLS with 44 lawyers is the second largest contingent at WLRK.

Sure a top NYU students has as good a chance as anyone but I think that WLRK seems to prefer CLS and HLS students more.

The data you have isn't nearly strong enough to support your conclusion. Once you go through OCI and see all of the factors that go into hiring, you'll understand that.

I already went thru OCI lite. I'm a rising 2L with a SA position and had several callbacks with other firms. I already have enough practice on how the little dance goes.

OCI lite isn't what smacks you with the knowledge. It's about seeing all your friends go through OCI and seeing how where they end up isn't some predictable function of school prestige grades such that you could use a simple attorney count on a firm website to predict whether a firm looked upon one school or another more favorably.

fair enough

but it can't simply be coincidence that certain schools and a certain level of student are almost always over-represented in some summer classes

[ToTransferOrNot]

$250,000 (in a bad year - plus, people ignore the fact that Wachtell's benefits - i.e., matching 401k - are much better than most firms these days) vs. $175,000; even if you're comparing against a firm where you bill 2200 instead of 3200, that's $75 an hour more (and if you're considering Wachtell, you're probably looking primarily at firms where 2200 is going to be on the low end).

You either think it's worth it or you don't. I certainly think it is.

I think I'm missing something.

$250,000/3200 = $78.13/hr

$175,000/2200 = $79.55/hr

I didn't mean "$75 per hour" more, as in "being paid $75 an hour vs being paid $150 an hour" - I meant "you make $75 an hour for each of those extra hours billed." My fault - sorry for imprecise language.

I mention that to point out that, at most firms, as you work more, your hourly rate tends to go down significantly - at, say, Cravath, you're going to make your $175k regardless of whether you put in 2200 hours (which will be on the low end of what you work at Cravath) vs. 3200 hours (which is conceivable at Cravath, but more likely at Wachtel).

TLDR: I'm willing to work an extra 1,000 billed hours a year if it means I get paid a good rate for each of those extra hours. Wachtell is one the few firms that pays enough. If the "extra amount" they paid for their comparatively higher billed expectation was only $20 an hour, it might not be worth it.

[rayiner]

but it can't simply be coincidence that certain schools and a certain level of student are almost always over-represented in some summer classes

Sure it's not a coincidence, but it's the product of a lot of factors, not just a few. As a result, you have to somewhat discount smaller variations in the data.

Eg: Cravath has like ~45 HLS associates and 9 NU associates. I'd bet they prefer HLS. They also have 20 Penn associates, 12 Michigan associates, and 6 Virginia associates. What conclusions can you make from that data? I'd say it's hard to make any. The whole top of Penn's class wants Cravath. At NU it seems like all of law review wants Sidley or Kirkland. And at Virginia, I'd bet the same is true for their law review and Covington. Or maybe Cravath really does like Penn a little better.

Between NYU and CLS there is less of a geographic difference, but there are very strong cultural differences. Schools have specific cultures and firms have specific cultures. Even a small difference in culture could explain the relatively small difference in the # of attorneys at Wachtell between the two schools.

[seriouslyinformative]

Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

l missed this post earlier. You understand that there's a difference between providing financial services legal advice to private equity groups, and being an M&A lawyer on a transaction that happens to involve a private equity buyer/seller, right? Even in that group you mentioned, Eisenberg is a private equity lawyer, and Doug Ryder is an M&A lawyer. A PE group often needs both types of lawyers, but that doesn't mean that they're the same, or that the same firms are well regarded for both.

Please: Keep responding.
http://www.lawyrs.net/news/show/2702/wa ... -fair-deal

[Renzo]

Renzo seems to be on a misinformation roll lately.

1) Wachtell does do privat equity work, and they have a huge book of privat equity work. Those OMM corporate partners who just decamped for Paul Weiss... their clients often use Wachtell for thsir bigger deals. Wachtell isn't a private equity giant, though.

l missed this post earlier. You understand that there's a difference between providing financial services legal advice to private equity groups, and being an M&A lawyer on a transaction that happens to involve a private equity buyer/seller, right? Even in that group you mentioned, Eisenberg is a private equity lawyer, and Doug Ryder is an M&A lawyer. A PE group often needs both types of lawyers, but that doesn't mean that they're the same, or that the same firms are well regarded for both.

Please: Keep responding.
http://www.lawyrs.net/news/show/2702/wa ... -fair-deal

I don't see anything in that link that explains whether or not you understand the difference between a PE advisory practice and regular (public) M&A work. In fact, I am more convinced that you do not, as you've just pointed to a deal involving both kinds of lawyers.

[Grizz]

[quote="liLtuneChi"
I'm not here to get into some dick-measuring competition about my school is better than your school BS. I pretty much only care about the god honest truth.[/quote]

As opposed to the other dick measuring contests you usually get into around here.

[Bosque]

By the way, someone at Wachtell needs to update their website.

"In addition to the systems in place in the office, we provide each attorney with a laptop, cell phone and PDA." (LinkRemoved)

Pretty sure no one has used a cell phone AND a PDA in two separate devices for a few years now.

[delusional]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000. Here's a guy who actually wants the opposite. Interesting.

[ToTransferOrNot]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000. Here's a guy who actually wants the opposite. Interesting.

Maybe after the loans are paid off, fewer hours for less money would be appealing. Until then, every hour I'm making a decent wage is a gift, heh.

[Bosque]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000. Here's a guy who actually wants the opposite. Interesting.

Maybe after the loans are paid off, fewer hours for less money would be appealing. Until then, every hour I'm making a decent wage is a gift, heh.

So, you don't have anything else going on in your life then? I don't know about you, but I don't want to put off living my life until I am too old to enjoy it.

And, as has been pointed out, even though you get paid more total, you get paid less by the hour. No thanks.

[rayiner]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000. Here's a guy who actually wants the opposite. Interesting.

Maybe after the loans are paid off, fewer hours for less money would be appealing. Until then, every hour I'm making a decent wage is a gift, heh.

Rent on a decent place in NYC + payments on $215k of LS debt = $5,000 per month on $8,200 take home. If you want to pay down your loans faster (putting in another $1k/mon will save you $36k in interest over 10 years) and save for a house (another $1k/mo) you're down to comfortable but certainly not high-end disposable income in a city where a drink costs $15.

[delusional]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000. Here's a guy who actually wants the opposite. Interesting.

Maybe after the loans are paid off, fewer hours for less money would be appealing. Until then, every hour I'm making a decent wage is a gift, heh.

Rent on a decent place in NYC + payments on $215k of LS debt = $5,000 per month on $8,200 take home. If you want to pay down your loans faster (putting in another $1k/mon will save you $36k in interest over 10 years) and save for a house (another $1k/mo) you're down to comfortable but certainly not high-end disposable income in a city where a drink costs $15.

If you work at Wachtell, do you even need an apartment?

[rayiner]

I think one of the things 0Ls don't realize is that $200k of debt at 8% is absolutely crushing. Your loan payment is as much as your rent. And that's the minimum payment which will take you 10 years to pay off, even though you'll only last 3-5 years in biglaw on average. If you're not prudent about planning for that you end up like Elie - 3 yrs of biglaw and defaulted on loans.

[Kronk]

I thought that almost everyone on TLS would have been thrilled if there was somewhere they could bill 1800 hours and get paid $120000.

Welcome to Denver.