HLS Preliminary Bidding Questions Forum

[Chichaca]

I think it depends on what grades you mean by "extremely well" and "relatively awful". Anecdotally I've heard of people firm-jumping to better firms through 3L, although it's pretty risky if you don't get a 2L SA since you could get shut out of biglaw altogether.

One dean's scholar and two other Hs first term became only 1H4P second term.

Crazy, I had almost the exact same thing happen. And I have no idea how it happened - I literally did the exact same things 2nd semester as 1st.

[Anonymous User]

7 H's/3 P's here checking in. I have strong ties to NY, a market where ties don't matter but am interested in NY/DC lit jobs.

Not quite sure how we're supposed to go about bidding. I have a huge bump from first to second semester (2H/3P first semester to 5H second semester) but I'm not sure how any of this will factor in.

Also, definitely not sure I want to even work for a firm in the long run. Should this change my bidding strategy at all (bid more aggressively)?

[Moxie]

7 H's/3 P's here checking in. I have strong ties to NY, a market where ties don't matter but am interested in NY/DC lit jobs.

Not quite sure how we're supposed to go about bidding. I have a huge bump from first to second semester (2H/3P first semester to 5H second semester) but I'm not sure how any of this will factor in.

Also, definitely not sure I want to even work for a firm in the long run. Should this change my bidding strategy at all (bid more aggressively)?

Similar position and really really want a DC job. It seems like 7H should get some bites in DC, but definitely spread some bids to NYC to be safe.

[EijiMiyake]

jesus, isn't 7Hs/3Ps somewhere around top 20%, and DC is still dangerous with those grades?

[Anonymous User]

DC isn't "dangerous" with those grades if you're willing to bid on a broad range of DC firms. I had 7 H's, one of them being a DS, and of the six DC firms where I interviewed (W&C, Covington, Sidley, Wilmer, Baker Botts, and K&E), only BB and K&E gave me callbacks. My lack of any substantial WE probably hurt me, but the interviews were otherwise quite good.

[GeePee]

DC isn't "dangerous" with those grades if you're willing to bid on a broad range of DC firms. I had 7 H's, one of them being a DS, and of the six DC firms where I interviewed (W&C, Covington, Sidley, Wilmer, Baker Botts, and K&E), only BB and K&E gave me callbacks. My lack of any substantial WE probably hurt me, but the interviews were otherwise quite good.

This is kind of scary. Did callbacks in whatever other market you targeted go significantly better for you, and did you have any reason to be in D.C.?

Thanks for your help.

[Moxie]

DC isn't "dangerous" with those grades if you're willing to bid on a broad range of DC firms. I had 7 H's, one of them being a DS, and of the six DC firms where I interviewed (W&C, Covington, Sidley, Wilmer, Baker Botts, and K&E), only BB and K&E gave me callbacks. My lack of any substantial WE probably hurt me, but the interviews were otherwise quite good.

Damn this is depressing, I guess I'm not surprised about W&C and Covington, but I didn't realize Sidley/Wilmer quality firms were going to be that competitive. But all it takes is one, right?

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I was a bit surprised at the no callback from Wilmer/Sidley thing, but looking back, it wasn't that shocking. Most of the folks working at those firms this summer are on LR or had some serious WE.

The only other market where I bid was NYC, and I more or less swept in terms of callbacks except for WLRK and Cravath (bombed that interview).

[GeePee]

Do non-LR organizations (HLAB, BSA) provide any significant change in prospects?

[seriouslyinformative]

I think some of you are confused. Just because anonymous was dinged from those DC firms, that doesn't mean he was dinged based on his grades.

[Moxie]

I think some of you are confused. Just because anonymous was dinged from those DC firms, that doesn't mean he was dinged based on his grades.

No I understand that haha, but it's still a statement about selectivity if people with those grades are getting rejected for any reason if he did as well as he said in NYC. Obviously NYC is going to be easier than DC, but even at the best firms I would've thought 7Hs would put them in a good position for multiple DC offers.

[seriouslyinformative]

No I understand that haha, but it's still a statement about selectivity if people with those grades are getting rejected for any reason if he did as well as he said in NYC. Obviously NYC is going to be easier than DC, but even at the best firms I would've thought 7Hs would put them in a good position for multiple DC offers.

I know people with better grades at HLS who got no offers from DC, and I know people with worse grades at HLS who got offers from places that rejected anonymous. Once you're in a certain range, it really comes down to other factors.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Tons of helpful information about DC; thanks! Does anyone have any experience with LA? I assume stuff like Irell/Munger is probably a stretch, but firms in the range of say Gibson/Latham/Quinn/OMM/MoFo/etc. are within reach, right? How far down should I be bidding if I choose to focus on LA?

[Anonymous User]

6H/4P (although the P's are in the 4 core private law classes). Dramatic improvement from 1st to second semester. No significant work experience, have no frame of reference for interview skill, no science background. Ties to SoCal and Bay Area. Fiancee refuses to live in NYC, likes SF/DC, could be persuaded to live anywhere not mentioned. Do not want corporate work. Probably will do litigation although I am reading more about regulatory work and white collar defense and think they would also be interesting.

Some preliminary questions:
1) Do I have a shot at DC if I want it? If so, what sorts of firms should I be looking at?
2) If I want to go w/California, should I focus exclusively on LA/SD or do I have a realistic shot at top SF firms even w/no science background?
3) If I bid on LA, do I have a realistic shot at any of the following: Munger; Irell; Gibson?

In terms of California, you have a shot at SF firms. If you plan on bidding on SF, don't just focus your bids on the top firms. Because the market is so small, they can be super choosy with the people selected and they will look at personality, work experience, and other soft factors as well. No science background is no big deal. I bid on some SF firms at EIP last year with absolutely no science experience and got callbacks at all.

If you bid on LA, you have basically no chance at Munger. Irell is also grade whore-y, but they also look for super intense people. If you give off that vibe, you might be OK. Gibson should be workable as well. You should also add other LA firms like Latham, OMM, etc. to make sure that you get something out of the market. They also really care about ties. I had significant and seemingly apparent ties to LA and all the LA firms still grilled me about why I wanted to be in that market. Be prepared for that.

ETA:

OP here.

Tons of helpful information about DC; thanks! Does anyone have any experience with LA? I assume stuff like Irell/Munger is probably a stretch, but firms in the range of say Gibson/Latham/Quinn/OMM/MoFo/etc. are within reach, right? How far down should I be bidding if I choose to focus on LA?

That seems about right. If you want to be assured of an LA callback/offer, then bid down to Sheppard Mullin.

[seriouslyinformative]

DC big firm attorney rates don't go for a super high premium, but the firms still try to pay NYC market. Not the most affordable proposition. That's why salaries at the #2 firm in the city (Covington) were frozen for a while. That's also why most DC firms simply don't pay the market bonus. The financials bear this out. Aside from W&C, DC firm PPP, RPL, and revenues are nothing to write home about.

It's also no secret that DC offices aren't the most profitable. Appellate work doesn't really pay the bills.

So yes, "robust" is the wrong word entirely. "Stable" is probably better, I suppose. DC firms are lackluster in good times and in bad. I don't think even that's true, though.