2L Summer - No Job Yet - Anyone else? Forum

[cardinal8]

What part of the T14?

Bottom half of the T14, also just about exactly median grades. So, I'm not a spectacular candidate but I think in better years I would have been okay.

[cardinal8]

I'm a 2L at CCN without a job. I'm still getting rejected from places, even at this late stage, so I figure people with even better resumes/grades than me must still not have jobs. I'm going to start blanketing public interest orgs soon.

start cold emailing alumni at small firms. "network"... There are tons of alumni from CCN. Tap into that alumni base.
You need to get something so you can try to find a biglaw job next year.

I've been cold-calling alumni at both my law school and my undergrad and literally no one will get back to me, not even just to say no. I'm wondering if there is an overwhelming amount of law grads trying to pull favors.

[seatown12]

how do you show PI orgs that you're serious?

To start, you need to have some kind of resume line or life experience that indicates that you have any interest whatsoever in the specific area. Your interest needs to be tailored to the particular employer as opposed to "PI" generally. I imagine this is especially true for obvious firm rejects applying in April.

what about legal aid? what resume line, pray tell, would show a specific interest in those?

previous volunteer experience in any capacity with underprivileged or marginalized populations

[timbs4339]

I'm a 2L at CCN without a job. I'm still getting rejected from places, even at this late stage, so I figure people with even better resumes/grades than me must still not have jobs. I'm going to start blanketing public interest orgs soon.

how do you show PI orgs that you're serious? (not you personally, but in general) i feel like they look at my resume and see just a firm reject (check) who is looking for something last-minute. PI isn't my first choice, but i am still interested and would work hard at it.

I have some PI experience through internships/classes (with populations that are very tough to work with), but trying to convince a place that is looking to hire full time after the summer that I'm interested in doing what they do long term is going to be hard. I'd actually love to find a place that only hires for the summer because then I wouldn't feel bad taking a spot from someone who really wanted that job.

[Anonymous User]

Why is it that people are not talking about their issues with finding work? I think finding a few friends to share problems and ideas with is essential to dealing with not having a job.
Maybe people define themselves by their jobs and are ashamed if they don't have one? If so, they need to be reminded in a positive way that the economy still is in the doldrums and they shouldn't view it as a personal failure if they don't have a job lined up.

I'm concerned that not talking about it will lead to people isolating themselves and getting depressed. I've seen that happen with several friends and with my brother-in-law when he lost a job he had held for years; and it can be difficult to get out of that funk once you fall into it.

Good luck with finding work. Don't give up!

all of my 2L friends already have jobs. i'm sure there are people who don't at my school, but when literally everyone you talk to has one (or two), it's definitely depressing. particularly when your grades are immaculate and the only reason for your failure must be personal.

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

[badfish]

Why is it that people are not talking about their issues with finding work? I think finding a few friends to share problems and ideas with is essential to dealing with not having a job.
Maybe people define themselves by their jobs and are ashamed if they don't have one? If so, they need to be reminded in a positive way that the economy still is in the doldrums and they shouldn't view it as a personal failure if they don't have a job lined up.

I'm concerned that not talking about it will lead to people isolating themselves and getting depressed. I've seen that happen with several friends and with my brother-in-law when he lost a job he had held for years; and it can be difficult to get out of that funk once you fall into it.

Good luck with finding work. Don't give up!

all of my 2L friends already have jobs. i'm sure there are people who don't at my school, but when literally everyone you talk to has one (or two), it's definitely depressing. particularly when your grades are immaculate and the only reason for your failure must be personal.

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

Kids aren't likely to talk about it, especially if they don't have something. I don't know how pervasive the jobless numbers are at any t-14 but they do exist ... even for those kids trying to get non-paid PI internships.

[cardinal8]

Why is it that people are not talking about their issues with finding work? I think finding a few friends to share problems and ideas with is essential to dealing with not having a job.
Maybe people define themselves by their jobs and are ashamed if they don't have one? If so, they need to be reminded in a positive way that the economy still is in the doldrums and they shouldn't view it as a personal failure if they don't have a job lined up.

I'm concerned that not talking about it will lead to people isolating themselves and getting depressed. I've seen that happen with several friends and with my brother-in-law when he lost a job he had held for years; and it can be difficult to get out of that funk once you fall into it.

Good luck with finding work. Don't give up!

all of my 2L friends already have jobs. i'm sure there are people who don't at my school, but when literally everyone you talk to has one (or two), it's definitely depressing. particularly when your grades are immaculate and the only reason for your failure must be personal.

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

That could be true, but even though it isn't talked about much I know other students at my school are facing a similar situation. It's not that we're totally jobless... but spending 2L RAing or at Legal Aide is certainly a far cry from the projected 160K salary track summer intern positions T14 law schools talk up when they are recruiting. As a 2L, my advice to you would be to make sure your GPA is above 3.5. No one at the law school is being honest with you about what the market is really like, but you will see soon enough.

[Anonymous User]

That could be true, but even though it isn't talked about much I know other students at my school are facing a similar situation. It's not that we're totally jobless... but spending 2L RAing or at Legal Aide is certainly a far cry from the projected 160K salary track summer intern positions T14 law schools talk up when they are recruiting. As a 2L, my advice to you would be to make sure your GPA is above 3.5. No one at the law school is being honest with you about what the market is really like, but you will see soon enough.

Im not questioning whether there are 2Ls w/o jobs, of course there are. My point is that just because you know someone(or are someone) at x%tile it doesnt imply that your situation is typical of x%tile and below. No one is being dishonest with me, I am well aware that some people are in a bad situation, even at top 10 schools. Fortunately, I am also aware the NLJ250 numbers dont truly tell the full story as far firm hiring goes (even the law students on this site underestimate the amount of non-NLJ250 jobs that pay above 60k starting). There are no guarantees in life. I know med students who are in bad positions. I know nursing students who are in bad positions. I know engineers who are in bad situations. For some people it just doesnt work out. I just dont like the promotion of the idea that one of these bad situations is typical of the job situation as a whole.

[prezidentv8]

Im not questioning whether there are 2Ls w/o jobs, of course there are.

Oh hai.

[Anonymous User]

For some people it just doesnt work out.

story of my life

[rose711]

Oh for goodness sake - please stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming yourself - you are digging yourself a bigger hole to climb out of. You need to take some action steps to get a job. I read a book which suggested making a chart with 100 nos on it - you cross off each no as you get it - but the point is that you are sending out resumes, cold-calling firms, etc. Keeping the chart is just a way to lessen the emotional impact.

Believe in yourself. That way you can convince others to hire you. Don't act desperate - you are a very successful person with a lot to offer the right job. You just have to find it.

It probably may not be helpful to you - but I was watching the live japanese news in English on NHK TV- after seeing the tragedy of the tsunami I realized a. that I have no right to complain about my life, it could be so much worse and b. you have to pick yourself up and face your problems and do your best.

I'm sorry I don't have any more specific job hunting hints - but please don't be down on yourself. Take every rejection as just a piece of information and move on. I still think your friends should be helpful to you, but if they aren't find another support system.

You will come out of this slump.

[prezidentv8]

Oh for goodness sake - please stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming yourself

This brings to mind my own method, which migh be useful for the OP:

My personal technique is to blame all the assholes that don't hire me.

Trust me, it helps

[truevines]

Why is it that people are not talking about their issues with finding work? I think finding a few friends to share problems and ideas with is essential to dealing with not having a job.
Maybe people define themselves by their jobs and are ashamed if they don't have one? If so, they need to be reminded in a positive way that the economy still is in the doldrums and they shouldn't view it as a personal failure if they don't have a job lined up.

I'm concerned that not talking about it will lead to people isolating themselves and getting depressed. I've seen that happen with several friends and with my brother-in-law when he lost a job he had held for years; and it can be difficult to get out of that funk once you fall into it.

Good luck with finding work. Don't give up!

all of my 2L friends already have jobs. i'm sure there are people who don't at my school, but when literally everyone you talk to has one (or two), it's definitely depressing. particularly when your grades are immaculate and the only reason for your failure must be personal.

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

Selection bias, or survivor bias.
People without a job prolly would not volunteer for ASW and probably would not speak with new admits, for they lose faith or pride in their school/education.

[Anonymous User]

Selection bias, or survivor bias.
People without a job prolly would not volunteer for ASW and probably would not speak with new admits, for they lose faith or pride in their school/education.

truth. i told every 0L i encountered not to come to my school, in all seriousness.

[worldtraveler]

Why is it that people are not talking about their issues with finding work? I think finding a few friends to share problems and ideas with is essential to dealing with not having a job.
Maybe people define themselves by their jobs and are ashamed if they don't have one? If so, they need to be reminded in a positive way that the economy still is in the doldrums and they shouldn't view it as a personal failure if they don't have a job lined up.

I'm concerned that not talking about it will lead to people isolating themselves and getting depressed. I've seen that happen with several friends and with my brother-in-law when he lost a job he had held for years; and it can be difficult to get out of that funk once you fall into it.

Good luck with finding work. Don't give up!

all of my 2L friends already have jobs. i'm sure there are people who don't at my school, but when literally everyone you talk to has one (or two), it's definitely depressing. particularly when your grades are immaculate and the only reason for your failure must be personal.

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

Selection bias, or survivor bias.
People without a job prolly would not volunteer for ASW and probably would not speak with new admits, for they lose faith or pride in their school/education.

If I had an 0L just come up to me and start quizzing me about whether I have a job, I don't think I'd appreciate that too much. I imagine a lot of people would not admit they don't have something, especially if they feel like you're judging them (which they probably do.)

[bmontminy]

This is a very, very scary thread to me. Best of luck, and thank you for motivation leading up to finals.

[Julio_El_Chavo]

0L here but at the schools I have visited so far (some during ASW but others not) I have made it a point to reach out to every student who would talk to me and I have found very few people without something (and often something very good) lined up. Granted, the schools I visited included multiple HYSCCN and Vandy but I just havent found the pervasive joblessness that every jobless poster on TLS seems to imply. Maybe I have an incredible knack for only running into to kids in the top 1/3 of the class but I seriously doubt it. I've asked my student hosts, friends of my student hosts, random students at the gym, students I see walking around campus, everything and I just dont believe the idea that upwards of 40% of these students at even lower T-14s are jobless and screwed.

Here's some more anecdotal evidence for you:

I'm a T10 2L where not many students transfer out of the school (maybe 5 total). I can tell you that of all the people I know (probably 30-35% of my total class), about 5% still have NO JOB, 5% have seemingly just disappeared (they are rumored to be enrolled but rarely show up for class, etc.), and another 25-35% of people have jobs lined up, but they are definitely NOT the kind of jobs they wanted or expected coming into law school.

[gwuorbust]

I've been cold-calling alumni at both my law school and my undergrad and literally no one will get back to me, not even just to say no. I'm wondering if there is an overwhelming amount of law grads trying to pull favors.

1L here. personal anecdote, but I started applying to places Mid-March. I've gotten five interviews, though none of them are with law firms (3 VC firms, 1RA, 1 at DA's). I also have two other volunteer opportunities floating in the air.

My thought is that it might not be that there are no opportunities, but where you are looking and how you are positioning yourself. I sent about ~15 emails out to Personal Injury firms in DC and got 2 "reapply next year" and one "we don't hire lawl students." Obviously, while not successful with any of these, I did make two leads which I intend to follow up with over the summer.

My point being, maybe you should reevaluate how you are pitching yourself and to whom. What is your selling point? What do you bring to the table? You should have all of that mapped out clearly.

My pitch is that I understand business better than most law student. That is my main theme. You may want to take a step back and make sure you have a theme and that you are positioning yourself in the most favorable light based on your background.

[nigelfrost]

0L here . . .

This is always the absolute best source for quality, reasoned information.

[Anonymous User]

How Not to Get a Job for 2L summer: have a breakdown in front of your dean of career services. awkward.

[2LLLL]

If I had an 0L just come up to me and start quizzing me about whether I have a job, I don't think I'd appreciate that too much. I imagine a lot of people would not admit they don't have something, especially if they feel like you're judging them (which they probably do.)

This- I have a job and I still wouldn't appreciate some 0L randomly interrupting my day to ask me about it. If I were still looking I might be tempted to strangle the questioner....

[blsingindisguise]

1L here. personal anecdote, but I started applying to places Mid-March. I've gotten five interviews, though none of them are with law firms (3 VC firms, 1RA, 1 at DA's). I also have two other volunteer opportunities floating in the air.

My thought is that it might not be that there are no opportunities, but where you are looking and how you are positioning yourself. I sent about ~15 emails out to Personal Injury firms in DC and got 2 "reapply next year" and one "we don't hire lawl students." Obviously, while not successful with any of these, I did make two leads which I intend to follow up with over the summer.

(1) 1L internships are not the same thing as 2L summer positions -- at least not the same thing as permanent job oriented summer positions -- and are much easier to get.

(2) "Reapply next year" is not a "lead."

[seriousstudenttt]

dood-just go work for the local legal aid this summer

[prezidentv8]

dood-just go work for the local legal aid this summer

This assumes that legal aid also isn't overrun with quality applicants.

[Anonymous User]

dood-just go work for the local legal aid this summer

how bad does this look when you're not trying to do PI in the future?