Harvard moves EIP up, start of classes back Forum

[Anonymous User]

Plus, it's not just that Columbia does it, it's (likely more so) that Yale does it. HLS always striving to keep up with #1, ya know

Columbia and Harvard kids compete for largely the same jobs. CLS has an advantage in doing their interviews weeks before Harvard does. Plus, many HLS kids who interview for BIGLAW are looking at NYC, where CLS has a more entrenched connection (understandably). It makes sense for HLS to align its OCI dates with those of Columbia. Yale kids aren't as interested in working BIGLAW, and the # of people that do OCI at Yale pales in comparison to the # that do it at CLS and HLS.

Given that NYC callbacks/offers were easy breezy for HLS kids at EIP, I'm not so sure that you're right. And it's not about competing for job spots necessarily, but also the message that they're sending to applicants who are choosing between H and Y. Y is already #1 so they have that going for them, but especially with how this year's 1L class seems to be all panic-stricken (and I doubt next year's class will be better), it's at least something for HLS to point to the fact that their interview program is at the same time as other top schools. If it makes you feel better, I'm also talking about CLS when I say "other top schools" so you don't have to get sensitive about it again.

I realize that HLS has a week for students to go on CBs without missing class, but almost all other 2Ls in the top-20 miss classes for callbacks, and end up getting notes, making up the work, etc. I agree that HLS is helping their students here, but what was to prevent students this year or in the past from skipping a couple days of classes and doing their CBs before the flyout week? Hell, you could do all your CBs in the first week of class, and use the week off to catch-up...

Not having to catch up > having to catch up. HTH!

School policy also prohibits missing class for CBs. This is, however, impossible to enforce and everyone does it anyway.

It's awfully hard for HLS to tell kids not to miss class for callbacks when our Flyout Week was so late that firms actually told people that the timing of their callback was hurting their chances of employment. I had at least one firm say that to me.

It's also sort of an embarrassment of riches, but what about those who have too many callbacks to fit into Flyout Week? It seems like firms were extra demanding about the amount of time they wanted and it made it almost impossible in some cases to schedule two callbacks in one day. Plus with the job market, there were a lot of people who were interviewing in multiple markets (again, hard to fit into Flyout Week, particularly if you're looking at non-East Coast cities). You can try to go within the rules as much as you want, but sometimes the system just needs to change to accommodate the conditions.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

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[A&O]

Many firms in NYC maintain separate quotas for HLS, CLS, and NYU students, so saying that CLS and NYU students "snatch" offers from HLS students isn't exactly accurate.

Also, it isn't entirely unknown for OCI to be held so early. Not only does CLS do so, but both NYU and (I think) Michigan had theirs around the same time in 2009.

[XxSpyKEx]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/intervie ... qus_thread

EIP August 15th-19th, classes start September 12th

Basically looks like they want all interviewing and callbacks done so they don't distract from the precious ivory tower musings.

This hiring system is beyond stupid at this point. Way to take the lead HLS.

Moving OCI earlier and earlier is actually becoming a trend. The idea is that if your school does OCI before all your peer schools, then your students get callbacks before OCI has even started at all your peer schools. I have no idea why the fuck harvard needs to do this though since the vast majority of its grads still can find jobs out of OCI (even if its OCI is after all its peer schools).

[Anonymous User]

How many people who get into H and Y look at the dates of OCI and take that into consideration when making their decision? I'm guessing almost none. I do think, though, it serves rising 2Ls well to know they will be interviewing at the same time as the rising 2Ls of other peer schools. I agree with you on that. But, I don't think applicants care.

OK, well you're guessing and I'm telling you that it happens. I am involved on campus in a way that allows me to interact with prospective students and one of the first questions I get is about jobs -- how was EIP, easy/hard for most people to get jobs, etc. Timing of EIP plays into that. If you think they don't care, then...well, I just don't know what to tell you.

I'm still sticking with my contention: HLS competes DIRECTLY with CLS for NYC BIGLAW.

If I said that's true, would you stop ranting about it?

Many firms in NYC maintain separate quotas for HLS, CLS, and NYU students, so saying that CLS and NYU students "snatch" offers from HLS students isn't exactly accurate.

Also, it isn't entirely unknown for OCI to be held so early. Not only does CLS do so, but both NYU and (I think) Michigan had theirs around the same time in 2009.

UCLA's seems to be the earliest that I've heard of. I believe it was the first week of August. Yikes.

[Kohinoor]

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/intervie ... qus_thread

EIP August 15th-19th, classes start September 12th

Basically looks like they want all interviewing and callbacks done so they don't distract from the precious ivory tower musings.

This hiring system is beyond stupid at this point. Way to take the lead HLS.

Moving OCI earlier and earlier is actually becoming a trend. The idea is that if your school does OCI before all your peer schools, then your students get callbacks before OCI has even started at all your peer schools. I have no idea why the fuck harvard needs to do this though since the vast majority of its grads still can find jobs out of OCI (even if its OCI is after all its peer schools).

I don't think they needed to, but why have even one kid miss an opportunity because of an easily remedied disparity?

[Kohinoor]

Many diversity fairs are in late July atm, so if firms prefer to have those before OCI, they really can't hold OCI much earlier without pushing into the summer jobs of diversity fair candidates.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT so all that Harvard competing with Yale crap is just that crap! Take off the blinders people nobody is safe I swear TLS annoys me there were 650 people at EIP; last year 377 got jobs u do the math!!!

[Anonymous User]

HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT so all that Harvard competing with Yale crap is just that crap! Take off the blinders people nobody is safe I swear TLS annoys me there were 650 people at EIP; last year 377 got jobs u do the math!!!

Holy shit 100. Where did you get this number from? I'm a 2L who struck out at OCI, I knew a lot of people had, I just didn't realize it was that bad.

[DoubleChecks]

HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT so all that Harvard competing with Yale crap is just that crap! Take off the blinders people nobody is safe I swear TLS annoys me there were 650 people at EIP; last year 377 got jobs u do the math!!!

Holy shit 100. Where did you get this number from? I'm a 2L who struck out at OCI, I knew a lot of people had, I just didn't realize it was that bad.

stop w/ the anon abuse lol

and so you're saying (and by you, i guess i mean anon #1) ~20% of the HLS class struck out at OCI? is that really crazy or something?

[Na_Swatch]

HLS 2L here......Harvard is moving the date up b/c over a 100 2L's STRUCK OUT so all that Harvard competing with Yale crap is just that crap! Take off the blinders people nobody is safe I swear TLS annoys me there were 650 people at EIP; last year 377 got jobs u do the math!!!

Holy shit 100. Where did you get this number from? I'm a 2L who struck out at OCI, I knew a lot of people had, I just didn't realize it was that bad.

Umm you do realize that a decent proportion of HLS students who are set on PI don't do a firm job 2L year right?

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

[Anonymous User]

Keep drinking the koolaid people, keep drinking the kookaid...the number is over 100 and don't fall for that PI BS, of course people aren't going to admit they stuck out, they may be ok with PI but they still STRUCK OUT.

[Na_Swatch]

Keep drinking the koolaid people, keep drinking the kookaid...the number is over 100 and don't fall for that PI BS, of course people aren't going to admit they stuck out, they may be ok with PI but they still STRUCK OUT.

umm.. you clearly didn't read what I said... obviously there are people who struck out and had to find PI when they really wanted to firm jobs... but are you so materialistic that you can't conceive there is a sizeable minority of law students who never wanted one in the first place??

[Anonymous User]

To the poster above.....good luck finding that PI job, you're in for a rude awakening if you think a PI job search will be "easier" there is a lot of competition and its harder to get a PI job than a BigLaw one these days.

To everyone else the date was moved up because many people struck out, the school was passing around "resume books" in November, I personally know 15 people who stuck out and I'm a loner. Minow and Career Services have been getting deluged with students needing help finding jobs, furthermore the school thought that '09 EIP was a one-time thing, thats why it wasn't moved up last year, once they recognized that nothing changed this year, they made the move...i have a firm in a secondary market, so I don't have dog in this fight, I'm just giving it to you straight...

[2LLLL]

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

I don't go to HLS, but I find this to be kind of implausible. If you really had no intention of taking a firm job why would you go through EIP "to see what its like"? The OCI process isn't some kind of fun, fratty hazing ritual that BigLaw-minded law students go through and laugh about for years afterwards- it freaking sucks.

I mean I guess maybe there is somebody out there who was thinking that if they didn't get a certain level of firm (V5 or bust?) they would just go PI, but considering that all firms pay the same, and most prestigious PI won't want you if you do a 2L SA, I don't think that this is a very likely (or rational) situation.

[DoubleChecks]

To the poster above.....good luck finding that PI job, you're in for a rude awakening if you think a PI job search will be "easier" there is a lot of competition and its harder to get a PI job than a BigLaw one these days.

To everyone else the date was moved up because many people struck out, the school was passing around "resume books" in November, I personally know 15 people who stuck out and I'm a loner. Minow and Career Services have been getting deluged with students needing help finding jobs, furthermore the school thought that '09 EIP was a one-time thing, thats why it wasn't moved up last year, once they recognized that nothing changed this year, they made the move...i have a firm in a secondary market, so I don't have dog in this fight, I'm just giving it to you straight...

/shock!

/surprise!

[Anonymous User]

You guys want to see how the public interest job search is going for HLS 3L's? Look at the number of them applying for Presidential Management Fellowships, which gives you two years in a federal agency in a NON-LEGAL position. I know three of these people and they say its hard finding ANY type of job.

https://www.pmf.opm.gov/Documents/Nominees2011.pdf

I guess all 43 of these HLS kids dreamed of working in NON-LEGAL capacity out of law school?

[DoubleChecks]

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

I don't go tp HLS, but I find this to be kind of implausible. If you really had no intention of taking a firm job why would you go through EIP "to see what its like"? The OCI process isn't some kind of fun, fratty hazing ritual that BigLaw-minded law students go through and laugh about for years afterwards- it freaking sucks.

lol makes sense, but you'd be surprised

i have a ton of friends (and even myself included) who often do a bunch of things that we dont have an interest in, just to see if...maybe it will spark an interest or maybe there's something else to take away from it

i guess im just playing devil's advocate here since i definitely want to do biglaw, but its possible that the interviewing element is something everyone would like practice in...and its also possible that maybe they did not want to completely close off that biglaw route (though lack of real interest/intent can show in interviews)

[Na_Swatch]

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

I don't go tp HLS, but I find this to be kind of implausible. If you really had no intention of taking a firm job why would you go through EIP "to see what its like"? The OCI process isn't some kind of fun, fratty hazing ritual that BigLaw-minded law students go through and laugh about for years afterwards- it freaking sucks.

I mean I guess maybe there is somebody out there who was thinking that if they didn't get a certain level of firm (V5 or bust?) they would just go PI, but considering that all firms pay the same, and most prestigious PI won't want you if you do a 2L SA, I don't think that this is a very likely (or rational) situation.

I'm not saying I would do it... In fact I would probably agree with you, but HLS has its share of people who believe going through EIP is worth it just for interview experience for future.

In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).

[Anonymous User]

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

I don't go tp HLS, but I find this to be kind of implausible. If you really had no intention of taking a firm job why would you go through EIP "to see what its like"? The OCI process isn't some kind of fun, fratty hazing ritual that BigLaw-minded law students go through and laugh about for years afterwards- it freaking sucks.

I mean I guess maybe there is somebody out there who was thinking that if they didn't get a certain level of firm (V5 or bust?) they would just go PI, but considering that all firms pay the same, and most prestigious PI won't want you if you do a 2L SA, I don't think that this is a very likely (or rational) situation.

I'm not saying I would do it... In fact I would probably agree with you, but HLS has its share of people who believe going through EIP is worth it just for interview experience for future.

In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).

So in the worst recession in 80 years, kids are interviewing for fun? yeah keep going you're doing fine lol

[Na_Swatch]

I've talked to many 2Ls and 3Ls who were already set on PI but did the EIP process (to see what its like)... then just chose a PI job for the summer.

I don't go tp HLS, but I find this to be kind of implausible. If you really had no intention of taking a firm job why would you go through EIP "to see what its like"? The OCI process isn't some kind of fun, fratty hazing ritual that BigLaw-minded law students go through and laugh about for years afterwards- it freaking sucks.

I mean I guess maybe there is somebody out there who was thinking that if they didn't get a certain level of firm (V5 or bust?) they would just go PI, but considering that all firms pay the same, and most prestigious PI won't want you if you do a 2L SA, I don't think that this is a very likely (or rational) situation.

I'm not saying I would do it... In fact I would probably agree with you, but HLS has its share of people who believe going through EIP is worth it just for interview experience for future.

In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).

So in the worst recession in 80 years, kids are interviewing for fun? trying to get any interviewing edge possible? yeah keep going you're doing fine lol

thanks for making my argument better

[A&O]

In fact I know some people who signed up to do multiple fake interviews that were offered by OCS here... still, as you said, if you want a good PI job you need to demonstrate interest (i.e. perhaps not work at a firm 2L year).

...and you actually believe all of them? That they wanted PI the whole time?