jobs with work/life balance Forum

[Anonymous User]

there are several midlaw/small law firms where you'll pull in 70-100k in salary, and work around 40-50 hours a week.

I agree, there are several such firms. Several as in more than two, less than dozens.

Even in secondary markets? (I prefer to live in mid-sized cities)

dude, there's dozens, just google it - they'll pay you 70-100k, just google em for your city. these dudes are like horses with blinders, they see nothing other than big law.

[Wavelet]

you can repair your patent bar ineligibility with about a year of work at any community college.. maybe if you get deferred at big law, you can enroll in a local school or something, I knew of like 4 guys at georgia tech who were in their 30s and had come back just for 1 year to take the requisite engineering courses (they were not degree students)

don't let uspto requirements make it seem like you have to 'do over' college - they're not really barriers, they're just hoops you have to jump through

but before all this talk, you need to read a couple of patents and see if you'd enjoy drafting them, maybe get in touch with a prosecutor and see if you'd like to correspond with the PTO for a living.

Please stop telling people to sit for the patent bar through Option B or C. The patent bar is unnecessary for patent litigation. And for prosecution, firms won't even consider you without an advanced technical degree (exceptions for certain engineering fields where a BS suffices); what makes you think they'll hire a patent prosecutor without any technical degree?

I wasn't referring to patent litigation when I mentioned the alternative options. My reference to the patent bar was solely directed at prosecution. But thanks for quoting me out of context.

And if you had read my post in its entirety, you'd realize that passing the patent bar without a technical degree is useless for prosecution. Making your reference "solely directed at prosecution" inapt.

[nosaj123]

So you want to work at a legal job that does work that's specifically interesting to you, has the easy hours you want, and a decent amount of pay?

LOL.

Well, I already have an interesting job with "easy" hours (not sure that most people consider ~50 hrs/wk easy, though it's definitely less than what I hear most law firms want). I guess it surprises me that a career restricted to people with a professional degree from a good school wouldn't provide the option for an equally satisfying career but with higher pay

[270910]

Well, I already have an interesting job with "easy" hours

DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL

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[yellowjacket2012]

I didn't realize it was that hard to get a patent prosecution gig from a top 20 law school if one has satisfied all patent bar requirements and is deemed fit to prosecute patents before the PTO.

If there's data showing that Option B/C result in unemployment, and are therefore highly questionable options designed to increase unemployment statistics and fill up the PTO's coffers, then yes, I redact my patent prosecution advice.

[Wavelet]

I didn't realize it was that hard to get a patent prosecution gig from a top 20 law school if one has satisfied all patent bar requirements and is deemed fit to prosecute patents before the PTO.

If there's data showing that Option B/C result in unemployment, and are therefore highly questionable options designed to increase unemployment statistics and fill up the PTO's coffers, then yes, I redact my patent prosecution advice.

When graduates of T20 law schools with CS, Bio, and ME degrees can't find patent prosecution jobs, do you really think someone without a technical degree has a chance? Common sense, man.

[Stanford4Me]

However, there's very few corporations that would higher straight out of law schools. To get those positions, you'd have to work at least 5+ yrs for a firm.

LOL'd at this.

huh?

All the information I have read (which has come from sources outside of this website) has told me that if you desire to work in-house for a corporation you should expect to spend a few years working at a corporate law firm. Why would a corporation want to hire someone straight out of law school with no practical experience? Obviously, there are exceptions, but those are called exceptions for a reason.

[270910]

However, there's very few corporations that would higher straight out of law schools. To get those positions, you'd have to work at least 5+ yrs for a firm.

LOL'd at this.

huh?

All the information I have read (which has come from sources outside of this website) has told me that if you desire to work in-house for a corporation you should expect to spend a few years working at a corporate law firm. Why would a corporation want to hire someone straight out of law school with no practical experience? Obviously, there are exceptions, but those are called exceptions for a reason.

Don't know why that person LOL'd, but it's totally correct (though it becomes realistic beginning more like after ~2 years than after ~5).

[Anonymous User]

I didn't realize it was that hard to get a patent prosecution gig from a top 20 law school if one has satisfied all patent bar requirements and is deemed fit to prosecute patents before the PTO.

If there's data showing that Option B/C result in unemployment, and are therefore highly questionable options designed to increase unemployment statistics and fill up the PTO's coffers, then yes, I redact my patent prosecution advice.

When graduates of T20 law schools with CS, Bio, and ME degrees can't find patent prosecution jobs, do you really think someone without a technical degree has a chance? Common sense, man.

This isn't a "common sense" matter, man, but thanks for taking the low road, its an easy road to take. Its more of an employment statistics matter.

I personally know of no data that supports what you're saying. Patent prosecution jobs don't require high law grades because patent prosecution does not require expertise with substantive law across disciplines. If you happen to know for a fact that a lot of t20 grades with tech backgrounds can't find patent prosecution jobs, then yes - you're right. I personally don't think this is accurate based purely on my anecdotal data, my experience at my IP boutique this past summer, etc.

If anything, patent firms complain that most top law school graduates want to do litigation instead of prosecution because of more $$, and because they're top law school students and they have those options available.

[Wavelet]

I didn't realize it was that hard to get a patent prosecution gig from a top 20 law school if one has satisfied all patent bar requirements and is deemed fit to prosecute patents before the PTO.

If there's data showing that Option B/C result in unemployment, and are therefore highly questionable options designed to increase unemployment statistics and fill up the PTO's coffers, then yes, I redact my patent prosecution advice.

When graduates of T20 law schools with CS, Bio, and ME degrees can't find patent prosecution jobs, do you really think someone without a technical degree has a chance? Common sense, man.

I personally know of no data that supports what you're saying. Patent prosecution jobs don't require high law grades because patent prosecution does not require expertise with substantive law across disciplines. If you happen to know for a fact that a lot of t20 grades with tech backgrounds can't find patent prosecution jobs, then yes - you're right. I personally don't think this is accurate based purely on my anecdotal data, my experience at my IP boutique this past summer, etc.

Exactly - patent prosecution jobs don't care nearly as much about law school grades/rank. What they do care about is technical expertise. So much so that many categorically reject Bio/Chem majors without advanced degrees; I don't know a single Biology or Chemistry major at my T20 with a patent prosecution job lined up (and not for want of law school grades; one of them has an offer from Irell).

Given the high emphasis on technical expertise and your undergraduate record, one cannot possibly expect a political science major who has taken the minimum courseload required to sit for the patent bar to be a hot commodity in the prosecution world.

[yellowjacket2012]

just curious - did your irell friend get a cb/offer this season? if you can pm me his stats/cb->offer lag etc., if you know that info, i would appreciate that. I think its pretty cool that someone with an Irell offer has an interest in patent prosecution - I don't, but I think its pretty interesting that someone out there does.

Sorry about the thread hijack. I don't think I can argue about Option B/C and its viability without any DATA - which I don't have. It seems BIZARRE to me that options b/c exist if nobody's getting gigs out of them. So I'll leave it at that.

[Wavelet]

just curious - did your irell friend get a cb/offer this season? if you can pm me his stats/cb->offer lag etc., if you know that info, i would appreciate that. I think its pretty cool that someone with an Irell offer has an interest in patent prosecution - I don't, but I think its pretty interesting that someone out there does.

Sorry about the thread hijack. I don't think I can argue about Option B/C and its viability without any DATA - which I don't have. It seems BIZARRE to me that options b/c exist if nobody's getting gigs out of them. So I'll leave it at that.

I'll PM you in a moment. And the patent pros interest was during OCI, i.e., before his Irell offer.

It might seem bizarre, but it's not any more "bizarre" than the existence of 50+ T4 and unaccredited law schools -- I guarantee you hardly anyone's getting gigs out of those, either.

[Anonymous User]

When graduates of T20 law schools with CS, Bio, and ME degrees can't find patent prosecution jobs, do you really think someone without a technical degree has a chance? Common sense, man.

This isn't a "common sense" matter, man, but thanks for taking the low road, its an easy road to take. Its more of an employment statistics matter.

I personally know of no data that supports what you're saying. Patent prosecution jobs don't require high law grades because patent prosecution does not require expertise with substantive law across disciplines. If you happen to know for a fact that a lot of t20 grades with tech backgrounds can't find patent prosecution jobs, then yes - you're right. I personally don't think this is accurate based purely on my anecdotal data, my experience at my IP boutique this past summer, etc.

If anything, patent firms complain that most top law school graduates want to do litigation instead of prosecution because of more $$, and because they're top law school students and they have those options available.

I have a CPSC degree and good grades from a T14 and I don't think I could get a prosecution job, because they want people with substantial WE or great UG grades for these. They want people who can jump into a patent and understand everything right away. With litigation you have much greater time to learn about the underlying technology, so having the background and ability to pick up concepts is enough.

[yellowjacket2012]

ok OP, just shelve my patent prosecution idea - if you ever decide to get an EE degree, go do patent pros, lol.

[nosaj123]

However, there's very few corporations that would higher straight out of law schools. To get those positions, you'd have to work at least 5+ yrs for a firm.

LOL'd at this.

huh?

All the information I have read (which has come from sources outside of this website) has told me that if you desire to work in-house for a corporation you should expect to spend a few years working at a corporate law firm. Why would a corporation want to hire someone straight out of law school with no practical experience? Obviously, there are exceptions, but those are called exceptions for a reason.

Could you tell me where you are getting you information? I'm trying to gobble up as much info on legal careers I can get so that I can plan out law school accordingly.

Thank you!

[Renzo]

there are several midlaw/small law firms where you'll pull in 70-100k in salary, and work around 40-50 hours a week.

I agree, there are several such firms. Several as in more than two, less than dozens.

Even in secondary markets? (I prefer to live in mid-sized cities)

dude, there's dozens, just google it - they'll pay you 70-100k, just google em for your city. these dudes are like horses with blinders, they see nothing other than big law.

There are lots of mid- and small-size firms, and some even pay decent. The lie is that such firms commonly offer a 40 hr work week.