What percentage of ppl at T-14 at/above median?? Forum

[rundoxierun]

this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%.

OK, never mind, stupid question is stupid.

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLL

What?? I really do not understand this site.. it was just a value that people talk about (top 25%, median, top 2/3rds(in ref. to HYSCCN usually)).

[mallard]

this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%.

OK, never mind, stupid question is stupid.

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLL

What?? I really do not understand this site.. it was just a value that people talk about (top 25%, median, top 2/3rds(in ref. to HYSCCN usually)).

What... are you talking about?

[PKSebben]

.

[270910]

Often 60, 70%+.

You are smoking dope. I just did a whole first years worth of classes at Michigan -- I was generous with the curve (because it moves) to put more people AT or ABOVE median and got 54%

http://mblog.lib.umich.edu/RG/archives/ ... index.html

have at it. 1st year classes only, though.

I took a class where 75% of the grades given out were median or better. HTH.

(i.e. the sentence you pulled that quote from was me talking about EACH class at the school - which is an interesting point from a statistics point of view, although clearly tangential to whatever mathematical world OP inhabits)

[PKSebben]

.

[berkeleykel06]

TLS's inability to understand the practical implications of medians and then jumping all over people who actually grasp the concept is one of my biggest pet peeves with this site.

I just did a whole first years worth of classes at Michigan -- I was generous with the curve (because it moves) to put more people AT or ABOVE median and got 54%

http://mblog.lib.umich.edu/RG/archives/ ... index.html

have at it. 1st year classes only, though.

This was the type of info OP was looking for, and should have been your response in the first place.

[rayiner]

When people say "median" vis-a-vis employment prospects, they almost certainly mean "median-ish", and at that point you don't even have to bring the mathematical definition thereof into account.

At NU, if the true median for a given class is 3.36 after 1L, there *might* be 127/250 students whose GPAs are at-or-above the median GPA. This point is largely irrelevant, however, because at most schools, nobody knows what the exact median GPA is. Employers will for all intents and purposes treat 3.3x as "median".

[mallard]

TLS's inability to understand the practical implications of medians and then jumping all over people who actually grasp the concept is one of my biggest pet peeves with this site.

I just did a whole first years worth of classes at Michigan -- I was generous with the curve (because it moves) to put more people AT or ABOVE median and got 54%

http://mblog.lib.umich.edu/RG/archives/ ... index.html

have at it. 1st year classes only, though.

This was the type of info OP was looking for, and should have been your response in the first place.

Going to have to ask you to enjoy dla piper now.

[mec30]

Guys, you're being really dumb. His question is legitimate.

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

2) With respect to the performance of the class as a whole, it's still quite possible that more than half of the class is median or better. The normal distribution suggests that the most populous region of the curve after 1L year is likely to be at or within a few points of the median. If you take a liberal definition of 'median' extending to just below it - or if you are at a school with an amorphous 3.15-3.25 type median instead of one occurring right at a letter (such as 3.3, or 178 or however the hell Chicago does it) - there will actually be a sizable enough portion of the population directly 'at median' that it would be accurate to say more than half of the class is at the median. In sum, my guess is up to 60% of any given class is "at or above median" by a definition most reasonable people would agree on for "median."

But by all means, get back to trolling the shit out of the OP -.-

Yea this is what I was wondering, 55-60% is what I thought but I wasnt sure b/c I dont really know a lot about the distribution at top schools.. this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%. I know it doesnt matter as far as choosing school, I just wondered how this related to competitiveness at certain ranges.

The distribution would be bell shaped and number of people having the exact same GPA any place above or under the curve would become almost insignificant. The top 2/3 in terms of gpa would almost always be 67% of the class.

[ogurty]

this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%.

OK, never mind, stupid question is stupid.

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLL

What?? I really do not understand this site.. it was just a value that people talk about (top 25%, median, top 2/3rds(in ref. to HYSCCN usually)).

If you're talking "median" like disco defined it, where "median" means anyone with middleish grades, then of course the median can extend. However, no one uses that definition, ever, anywhere. I think you meant your original question to be more along the lines of "is grade inflation pushing grades up?" which is almost as stupid of a question as "is grade inflation putting 65% of students above median?"

[PKSebben]

.

[rundoxierun]

Guys, you're being really dumb. His question is legitimate.

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

2) With respect to the performance of the class as a whole, it's still quite possible that more than half of the class is median or better. The normal distribution suggests that the most populous region of the curve after 1L year is likely to be at or within a few points of the median. If you take a liberal definition of 'median' extending to just below it - or if you are at a school with an amorphous 3.15-3.25 type median instead of one occurring right at a letter (such as 3.3, or 178 or however the hell Chicago does it) - there will actually be a sizable enough portion of the population directly 'at median' that it would be accurate to say more than half of the class is at the median. In sum, my guess is up to 60% of any given class is "at or above median" by a definition most reasonable people would agree on for "median."

But by all means, get back to trolling the shit out of the OP -.-

Just no. Look, the class is either going to have an odd number of students or an even number of students. If there are an even number of students, then the school will pick the lowest student in the top half, and that will be above median. The rest will be below median, and the division will be equal. If, on the other hand, there are an odd number of students, then it is true that the division will not be exactly 50/50. But, it will only be off by 1 student. That's just the way a median works. Median is a statistically significant term. If you are talking about how many people are at or above the curve, sure there may be some play there—but not with a median figure.

Median is based on values not datapoints.. the median is the halfway VALUE of population not datapoint(that would be mode). As far as the 75-80%=2/3rd figure that was accepting the above posters estimate of up to 60% being at median. I really hope TLS is not a representative sample of law students. Seems like to me this place is starting to just be chorus of dbags with hotkeys to "flame", "troll", and stupid pictures at their disposal. It was a simple question about the makeup of grade distributions.

[Na_Swatch]

OP, you are the highest scoring AA male in law school admissions this next cycle... i'm going to start doubting that soon if you continue in this vein (lol jk )

but seriously, the only redeeming fact for this question is that you are probably thinking about HYS schools + Berk with the H/P/LP or similar systems. Even with that, your only going to go slightly beyond 50% due to the nature of 4 or 5 classes and how median is calculated...

Finally, why do u care!? you'll be an AA at HYS... employment is already secure

[270910]

Often 60, 70%+.

You are smoking dope. I just did a whole first years worth of classes at Michigan -- I was generous with the curve (because it moves) to put more people AT or ABOVE median and got 54%

http://mblog.lib.umich.edu/RG/archives/ ... index.html

have at it. 1st year classes only, though.

I took a class where 75% of the grades given out were median or better. HTH.

ONE CLASS DOESNT EQUAL OFTEN. HTH.

Disco_Barred's first semester courses and the number of grades given out in each that were at or above median:

Course 1: 74.9%
Course 2: 59.2%
Course 3: 64.6%
Course 4: 63.1%

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

[mallard]

Median is based on values not datapoints.. the median is the halfway VALUE of population not datapoint(that would be mode). As far as the 75-80%=2/3rd figure that was accepting the above posters estimate of up to 60% being at median. I really hope TLS is not a representative sample of law students. Seems like to me this place is starting to just be chorus of dbags with hotkeys to "flame", "troll", and stupid pictures at their disposal. It was a simple question about the makeup of grade distributions.

Yes, we're getting that; it's still a silly thing to ask.

[270910]

this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%.

OK, never mind, stupid question is stupid.

OLOLOLOLOLOLOLL

What?? I really do not understand this site.. it was just a value that people talk about (top 25%, median, top 2/3rds(in ref. to HYSCCN usually)).

If you're talking "median" like disco defined it, where "median" means anyone with middleish grades, then of course the median can extend. However, no one uses that definition, ever, anywhere.

Except all legal employers? It's actually quite relevant, and the driving force behind schools who obscure their median. Like, by, oh hell I don't know, only giving out Hs and Ps.

[rundoxierun]

Guys, you're being really dumb. His question is legitimate.

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

2) With respect to the performance of the class as a whole, it's still quite possible that more than half of the class is median or better. The normal distribution suggests that the most populous region of the curve after 1L year is likely to be at or within a few points of the median. If you take a liberal definition of 'median' extending to just below it - or if you are at a school with an amorphous 3.15-3.25 type median instead of one occurring right at a letter (such as 3.3, or 178 or however the hell Chicago does it) - there will actually be a sizable enough portion of the population directly 'at median' that it would be accurate to say more than half of the class is at the median. In sum, my guess is up to 60% of any given class is "at or above median" by a definition most reasonable people would agree on for "median."

But by all means, get back to trolling the shit out of the OP -.-

Just no. Look, the class is either going to have an odd number of students or an even number of students. If there are an even number of students, then the school will pick the lowest student in the top half, and that will be above median. The rest will be below median, and the division will be equal. If, on the other hand, there are an odd number of students, then it is true that the division will not be exactly 50/50. But, it will only be off by 1 student. That's just the way a median works. Median is a statistically significant term. If you are talking about how many people are at or above the curve, sure there may be some play there—but not with a median figure.

Median is based on values not datapoints.. the median is the halfway VALUE of population not datapoint(. As far as the 75-80%=2/3rd figure that was accepting the above posters estimate of up to 60% being at median. I really hope TLS is not a representative sample of law students. Seems like to me this place is starting to just be chorus of dbags with hotkeys to "flame", "troll", and stupid pictures at their disposal. It was a simple question about the makeup of grade distributions.

[09042014]

You are smoking dope. I just did a whole first years worth of classes at Michigan -- I was generous with the curve (because it moves) to put more people AT or ABOVE median and got 54%

http://mblog.lib.umich.edu/RG/archives/ ... index.html

have at it. 1st year classes only, though.

I took a class where 75% of the grades given out were median or better. HTH.

ONE CLASS DOESNT EQUAL OFTEN. HTH.

Disco_Barred's first semester courses and the number of grades given out in each that were at or above median:

Course 1: 74.9%
Course 2: 59.2%
Course 3: 64.6%
Course 4: 63.1%

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

The median grade would then be higher than the median grade that each course is curved to.

[mallard]

Except all legal employers? It's actually quite relevant, and the driving force behind schools who obscure their median. Like, by, oh hell I don't know, only giving out Hs and Ps.

Do those schools even rank students?

[Na_Swatch]

Guys, you're being really dumb. His question is legitimate.

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

2) With respect to the performance of the class as a whole, it's still quite possible that more than half of the class is median or better. The normal distribution suggests that the most populous region of the curve after 1L year is likely to be at or within a few points of the median. If you take a liberal definition of 'median' extending to just below it - or if you are at a school with an amorphous 3.15-3.25 type median instead of one occurring right at a letter (such as 3.3, or 178 or however the hell Chicago does it) - there will actually be a sizable enough portion of the population directly 'at median' that it would be accurate to say more than half of the class is at the median. In sum, my guess is up to 60% of any given class is "at or above median" by a definition most reasonable people would agree on for "median."

But by all means, get back to trolling the shit out of the OP -.-

Just no. Look, the class is either going to have an odd number of students or an even number of students. If there are an even number of students, then the school will pick the lowest student in the top half, and that will be above median. The rest will be below median, and the division will be equal. If, on the other hand, there are an odd number of students, then it is true that the division will not be exactly 50/50. But, it will only be off by 1 student. That's just the way a median works. Median is a statistically significant term. If you are talking about how many people are at or above the curve, sure there may be some play there—but not with a median figure.

Median is based on values not datapoints.. the median is the halfway VALUE of population not datapoint(. As far as the 75-80%=2/3rd figure that was accepting the above posters estimate of up to 60% being at median. I really hope TLS is not a representative sample of law students. Seems like to me this place is starting to just be chorus of dbags with hotkeys to "flame", "troll", and stupid pictures at their disposal. It was a simple question about the makeup of grade distributions.

Even if 60% was at median (which is probably beyond the upper bound possible), the 2/3 figure would just be raised to a number much closer to the median, and thus there would still be about 66 to 70% of people that are ranked in the top 2/3rd of the class....

A larger median does not influence the distribution of other percentile markings in a bell curve.

[mec30]

Guys, you're being really dumb. His question is legitimate.

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

2) With respect to the performance of the class as a whole, it's still quite possible that more than half of the class is median or better. The normal distribution suggests that the most populous region of the curve after 1L year is likely to be at or within a few points of the median. If you take a liberal definition of 'median' extending to just below it - or if you are at a school with an amorphous 3.15-3.25 type median instead of one occurring right at a letter (such as 3.3, or 178 or however the hell Chicago does it) - there will actually be a sizable enough portion of the population directly 'at median' that it would be accurate to say more than half of the class is at the median. In sum, my guess is up to 60% of any given class is "at or above median" by a definition most reasonable people would agree on for "median."

But by all means, get back to trolling the shit out of the OP -.-

Yea this is what I was wondering, 55-60% is what I thought but I wasnt sure b/c I dont really know a lot about the distribution at top schools.. this would mean a good estimate of the amount at the 2/3rd GPA mark is actually 75-80%. I know it doesnt matter as far as choosing school, I just wondered how this related to competitiveness at certain ranges.

The distribution would be bell shaped and number of people having the exact same GPA any place above or under the curve would become almost insignificant. The top 2/3 in terms of gpa would almost always be 67% of the class.

Assuming the 2/3rds GPA value mark is different from the median value.

[270910]

Except all legal employers? It's actually quite relevant, and the driving force behind schools who obscure their median. Like, by, oh hell I don't know, only giving out Hs and Ps.

Do those schools even rank students?

That's the point.

Imagine a world where the OP isn't a moron, and the question is "at any top 14 law school, what percentage of students will be viewed as roughly median or better by employers."

I'll grant that's NOT what OP asked, but it's pretty close - and it's an interesting and relevant question.

This is like basic statutory interpretation. If somebody says "how many are at or above median" you can either go "LOL 50% MORAN MEDIAN DICTIONARY HUR" and go play golf, or you can internalize the implication which is all but assuredly, as typed above, at any top 14 law school, what percentage of students will be viewed as roughly median or better by employers."

[Na_Swatch]

Except all legal employers? It's actually quite relevant, and the driving force behind schools who obscure their median. Like, by, oh hell I don't know, only giving out Hs and Ps.

Do those schools even rank students?

That's the point.

Imagine a world where the OP isn't a moron, and the question is "at any top 14 law school, what percentage of students will be viewed as roughly median or better by employers."

I'll grant that's NOT what OP asked, but it's pretty close - and it's an interesting and relevant question.

This is like basic statutory interpretation. If somebody says "how many are at or above median" you can either go "LOL 50% MORAN MEDIAN DICTIONARY HUR" and go play golf, or you can internalize the implication which is all but assuredly, as typed above, at any top 14 law school, what percentage of students will be viewed as roughly median or better by employers."

Question should not be about T14 schools then which almost always have letter grades.. question should be about HYS and maybe Berkeley.

[270910]

Disco_Barred's first semester courses and the number of grades given out in each that were at or above median:

Course 1: 74.9%
Course 2: 59.2%
Course 3: 64.6%
Course 4: 63.1%

1) With respect to individual classes: At a school with a B+ curve, well over half of each class gets median or better. Often 60, 70%+.

The median grade would then be higher than the median grade that each course is curved to.

This is just flat wrong, you're thinking about it the wrong way. Each of those courses had a 3.3 median GPA (roughly), the school had a 3.3 median GPA (roughly).

[doyleoil]

Solution? Just don't get any median (or below) grades. Simple. Elegant. Winning.

Or you can go play golf.