DOJ honors policy Forum

[MrKappus]

??? Eyewitness testimony is sufficient to prove a fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

Eyewitness testimony from likely drug users that's nearly a decade old. Sounds like a surefire conviction to me.

[03121202698008]

??? Eyewitness testimony is sufficient to prove a fact beyond a reasonable doubt.

Eyewitness testimony from likely drug users that's nearly a decade old. Sounds like a surefire conviction to me.

Most people confess for sure... Doesn't mean OP should risk it. I didn't say everyone who does it goes to jail. I promise if caught you will never work for any gov agency though...and it would be a hell of a C&F issue. (The lying, false swearing, etc not the drug use.)

[MrKappus]

In the case I was the security manager for, OPM found multiple witnesses who were willing to testify, and found a hospital admission for a suspected overdose...at which point he confessed. He only got 15 days (was a civilian), but he end up with a felony conviction out of it.

In the other case, they confronted him with multiple witnesses including his mother who were going to testify and he confessed.

Gotcha. I do think it'd be extremely difficult to convict if D stuck to his story. Then again, to go from applying for TS to defending yourself in court would suck enough, even w/ an acquittal.

[03121202698008]

In the case I was the security manager for, OPM found multiple witnesses who were willing to testify, and found a hospital admission for a suspected overdose...at which point he confessed. He only got 15 days (was a civilian), but he end up with a felony conviction out of it.

In the other case, they confronted him with multiple witnesses including his mother who were going to testify and he confessed.

Gotcha. I do think it'd be extremely difficult to convict if D stuck to his story. Then again, to go from applying for TS to defending yourself in court would suck enough, even w/ an acquittal.

Yeah, they just deny the clearance for most and you'd lose the job. If you're an accountant, probably not that big of a deal. I'd imagine the C&F folks would love the false swearing, etc.

[Anonymous User]

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[Patriot1208]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

[danidancer]

I'm not saying you should lie, but my drug usage was very similar to yours and I only copped to smoking pot three times on my TS application. The names I gave them were people I trusted and people who knew nothing of my drug usage. I know of at least 6 others who did the same thing for their TS. As long as you weren't slinging yayo to pay your way through undergrad you should know quite a few people who are oblivious to your drug use. I also know a guy whose ex told the investigators that they were regular cocaine users when they were together (which was true). This dude wrote a statement claiming the ex was only trying to sabotage his career. He was granted the TS clearance.

So they only contact the references you give them? They don't cold call random neighbors, etc? If that's the case, then it seems someone should be able to skirt the system quite easily, no? Just give them reliable references who aren't out to screw you... What am I missing?

[ggocat]

So they only contact the references you give them? They don't cold call random neighbors, etc? If that's the case, then it seems someone should be able to skirt the system quite easily, no? Just give them reliable references who aren't out to screw you... What am I missing?

Depending on the level of clearance, they may contact your references and other people (e.g., neighbors who you do not list). And it might not be a cold call; likely will be a cold show-up-at-the-door. They will have multiple agents working in different areas doing the research that is combined into one report.

[Patriot1208]

I'm not saying you should lie, but my drug usage was very similar to yours and I only copped to smoking pot three times on my TS application. The names I gave them were people I trusted and people who knew nothing of my drug usage. I know of at least 6 others who did the same thing for their TS. As long as you weren't slinging yayo to pay your way through undergrad you should know quite a few people who are oblivious to your drug use. I also know a guy whose ex told the investigators that they were regular cocaine users when they were together (which was true). This dude wrote a statement claiming the ex was only trying to sabotage his career. He was granted the TS clearance.

So they only contact the references you give them? They don't cold call random neighbors, etc? If that's the case, then it seems someone should be able to skirt the system quite easily, no? Just give them reliable references who aren't out to screw you... What am I missing?

No, they do contact neighbors, acquantinces from your work, school, etc. I know this for a fact as I have gone through the TS process. But they do also interview names of people you give them. But if no neighbor, landlord, roomate, acquantince at work, school, etc. that could easily be connected to you knows about your drug use. Then there is probably no way they could catch you.

[danidancer]

I'm not saying you should lie, but my drug usage was very similar to yours and I only copped to smoking pot three times on my TS application. The names I gave them were people I trusted and people who knew nothing of my drug usage. I know of at least 6 others who did the same thing for their TS. As long as you weren't slinging yayo to pay your way through undergrad you should know quite a few people who are oblivious to your drug use. I also know a guy whose ex told the investigators that they were regular cocaine users when they were together (which was true). This dude wrote a statement claiming the ex was only trying to sabotage his career. He was granted the TS clearance.

So they only contact the references you give them? They don't cold call random neighbors, etc? If that's the case, then it seems someone should be able to skirt the system quite easily, no? Just give them reliable references who aren't out to screw you... What am I missing?

No, they do contact neighbors, acquantinces from your work, school, etc. I know this for a fact as I have gone through the TS process. But they do also interview names of people you give them. But if no neighbor, landlord, roomate, acquantince at work, school, etc. that could easily be connected to you knows about your drug use. Then there is probably no way they could catch you.

Gotcha. Very interesting. Glad this isn't something I have to worry about.

[MrKappus]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

[Patriot1208]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Ya, not doing drugs = stupid. Fucking idiot.

[MrKappus]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Ya, not doing drugs = stupid. Fucking idiot.

No I just mean the ability to see issues w/ absolutely no nuance. For example, are you anti-Pfizer too?

[Anonymous User]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Awesome dude, people get worked up because most use it to relax and let off stress or when chillin with their friends, yet its against the law and you get fucked for using. Show me health studies that show pot is worse than coffee, and I know drinking is much worse than pot. I honestly cannot beleive that DOJ will disqualify you for recreational marijuana use, I know traders blowin lines of coke during bathroom breaks. Just kind of bullshit and plays more into the whole lawyers suck vibe. And, drugs....are sort of normal, everyone I know enjoys a little toke now and then at least and all of them are successful or doing interesting things. It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

[ggocat]

It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

see http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 6#p3171470

[vamedic03]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Awesome dude, people get worked up because most use it to relax and let off stress or when chillin with their friends, yet its against the law and you get fucked for using. Show me health studies that show pot is worse than coffee, and I know drinking is much worse than pot. I honestly cannot beleive that DOJ will disqualify you for recreational marijuana use, I know traders blowin lines of coke during bathroom breaks. Just kind of bullshit and plays more into the whole lawyers suck vibe. And, drugs....are sort of normal, everyone I know enjoys a little toke now and then at least and all of them are successful or doing interesting things. It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

You are aware that the DOJ is the executive branch agency in charge of enforcing the criminal laws of the United States, right? And, you are aware that the marijuana remains a schedule I drug, right? So, you don't understand why the DOJ wants to make sure that the attorneys they are hiring to enforce the laws of the United States aren't repeatedly violating them?

[eml256]

i'm curious, does illegal activity prior to age 18 affect TS clearance if you are applying less than 10 years (or even, say 5 or 6) after your 18th birthday?

[Patriot1208]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Awesome dude, people get worked up because most use it to relax and let off stress or when chillin with their friends, yet its against the law and you get fucked for using. Show me health studies that show pot is worse than coffee, and I know drinking is much worse than pot. I honestly cannot beleive that DOJ will disqualify you for recreational marijuana use, I know traders blowin lines of coke during bathroom breaks. Just kind of bullshit and plays more into the whole lawyers suck vibe. And, drugs....are sort of normal, everyone I know enjoys a little toke now and then at least and all of them are successful or doing interesting things. It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

Lol at the dumbest post i've ever read.

If you are going to work as someone who is explicitly trying to uphold the law, then breaking it regularly is not something that will fly with your employer. And its not just lawyers, its pretty much every job in every federal agency. And the MAJORITY of people have fun while upholding the law. Go back to Ridgemont High, Spicoli.

[Patriot1208]

i'm curious, does illegal activity prior to age 18 affect TS clearance if you are applying less than 10 years (or even, say 5 or 6) after your 18th birthday?

Yes, it will, but to a lesser extent.

[danidancer]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Awesome dude, people get worked up because most use it to relax and let off stress or when chillin with their friends, yet its against the law and you get fucked for using. Show me health studies that show pot is worse than coffee, and I know drinking is much worse than pot. I honestly cannot beleive that DOJ will disqualify you for recreational marijuana use, I know traders blowin lines of coke during bathroom breaks. Just kind of bullshit and plays more into the whole lawyers suck vibe. And, drugs....are sort of normal, everyone I know enjoys a little toke now and then at least and all of them are successful or doing interesting things. It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

Lol at the dumbest post i've ever read.

If you are going to work as someone who is explicitly trying to uphold the law, then breaking it regularly is not something that will fly with your employer. And its not just lawyers, its pretty much every job in every federal agency. And the MAJORITY of people have fun while upholding the law. Go back to Ridgemont High, Spicoli.

I'm pretty sure there was a West Wing episode about this.

[ggocat]

The form says 7 years, but for a TS you must go back to 10 years or your 18th birthday, which ever is more recent.

Ah yes, I forgot it was 10 years. I think DOJ requires 10 years for attorneys as they do an SSBI, but it may depend on division. I worked for a DOJ component during law school, and they did an SSBI.

[djgoldbe]

It just confuses me why everyone gets so worked up over governments issue with drugs. Drugs are not cool, they are not normal, and they are against the law. So just don't fucking do it.

Life must be remarkably simple when you have an IQ of 90.

Awesome dude, people get worked up because most use it to relax and let off stress or when chillin with their friends, yet its against the law and you get fucked for using. Show me health studies that show pot is worse than coffee, and I know drinking is much worse than pot. I honestly cannot beleive that DOJ will disqualify you for recreational marijuana use, I know traders blowin lines of coke during bathroom breaks. Just kind of bullshit and plays more into the whole lawyers suck vibe. And, drugs....are sort of normal, everyone I know enjoys a little toke now and then at least and all of them are successful or doing interesting things. It's kind of a shame that DOJ disqualifies people like this and almost forces them to lie. Why can't I smoke an want to be a part of DOJ? Are all government agencies like this? I can't beleive you get punished for having fun in college.

You are aware that the DOJ is the executive branch agency in charge of enforcing the criminal laws of the United States, right? And, you are aware that the marijuana remains a schedule I drug, right? So, you don't understand why the DOJ wants to make sure that the attorneys they are hiring to enforce the laws of the United States aren't repeatedly violating them?

Thank you.


Truly, Bless your heart.

[Anonymous User]

This whole debate will be really fun when California legalizes marijuana in a few months.

In any case, I'd certainly love to work for the DOJ and I'd like to think that I have the background, grades, and skills to be an effective advocate for the government. But I also like occasionally smoking pot after work.

The DOJ is certainly within their rights to exclude folk like me from their talent pool, but singling out marijuana users is wrongheaded and ultimately not in the national interest. It used to be that "practicing homosexuals" were also categorically denied security clearance. After all, gay sex was illegal and homosexuals were seen to be craven weak-willed folk. Thankfully we've progressed as a society. Hopefully in the coming years we'll be able to progress a little more.

And the MAJORITY of people have fun while upholding the law.

Actually, according to the government itself over half of Americans age 18-35 have used marijuana at least once in their lifetime: http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... t/druguse/

[romothesavior]

So if someone tried it once or twice in their junior or senior year of college, and never touched it again, and then was up for DOJ Honors, they would automatically get denied?

And if someone admits that they drank alcohol before they were 21, that would be a serious red flag?

I mean, I'm all for recruiting law-abiding people, but let's not look at this is strictly black and white.

[danidancer]

Actually, according to the government itself over half of Americans age 18-35 have used marijuana at least once in their lifetime: http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/pub ... t/druguse/

Self reporting! Chances are in actuality it's even higher.