Proskauer Rose minimum class rank to interview by school Forum

[mallard]

If I understand the context correctly, OPs numbers are those the firm deems sufficient to get a *screening* interview. Not for a CB, and not to get hired. So I think it would be fair to suspect, as mallard and others have, that ITE PR might not hire someone from NU at or very near the median, or, in a related sense, someone clearly below median from CCN. Of course there will be exceptions, which is why the screening interview criteria are pretty lax, at least considering ITE.

Yeah. And as I understand it, Proskauer was not a firm that weathered ITE with particular success or grace.

[NayBoer]

In light of threads like this one, they should rename this whole sub-forum "Where 0Ls Decide to Become Gunners."

Not to nitpick, but I think you misunderstand the true meaning of "gunner" here. Being a gunner is a bad thing. Gunners inject their personal views into class comments improperly. They pose hypos to the class. They annoy the shit out of the prof and their classmates. None of these things equates with working hard, necessarily. Sure, some gunners work hard, but many just like to *talk* about doing so. Point being: you can bust your ass 1L year without being a gunner, and you can be a gunner without working hard.

Point taken. I guess I was under the impression that gunners are generally just trying way too hard.

[mallard]

I think people who work way too hard can be called gunners.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. In response to source of this info - it's the The Law Consortium regional career fair. The Law Consortium is only composed of BC, BU, GW, NU, UT this year - that's why only those schools are listed in Simplicity under Proskauer Rose's description. Sorry, should have made this more clear in original poast.

[Anonymous User]

And correct, this is the requirement for just a pre-screening interview, not a CB or offer. Though CB and offer decisions are arguably made more on personality rather than grades.

[Anonymous User]

The cut-off for Washington University is 25%. (Info comes from a different job fair.)

[mallard]

And correct, this is the requirement for just a pre-screening interview, not a CB or offer. Though CB and offer decisions are arguably made more on personality rather than grades.

I think that may have been truer pre-ITE.

[bwv812]

.

[youpiiz]

finally! an opportunity for my sparkling personality to shine! thank you TE!

[rando]

And correct, this is the requirement for just a pre-screening interview, not a CB or offer. Though CB and offer decisions are arguably made more on personality rather than grades.

I think that may have been truer pre-ITE.

I thought it was especially true ITE. SA positions seemed highly variable this year, with plenty at the top missing out, and a fair number with (relatively) low GPAs landing positions. Personality and interviewing skills seemed key.

I have not seen this to be true. Yes, plenty at the top missed out. But to imply that they were replaced by people lower in the game who interview well is not accurate.

The take home is that good grades were not a golden ticket at last years OCI. But they were absolutely necessary.

Those numbers are not necessarily hard cutoffs. But people with numbers just meeting those cutoff criteria better blow away their interviewers because its a long shot to get a callback.

[TheBigMediocre]

After some of the things PR did during the past couple years, didn't ATL use the verb "proskaurered" like getting lathamed?

[bwv812]

.

[somewhatwayward]

I don't really have any feelings on this...just don't care I guess. But since most of TLS is secretly super concerned with prestige , I thought this was poast worthy. Though most big firms don't poast this outright, I'd imagine their hiring criteria is probably around these ranges for these schools.

poast?
roast?
toast?
boast?
coast?

[Scallywaggums]

I tend to assume that anybody who will take median at Northwestern would take anybody outside the bottom third at CCN, but I might be wrong about that.

No.

'09 NLJ 250 Hiring by % of class

Northwestern University School of Law 55.9
Columbia Law School 54.4
Stanford Law School 54.1
University of Chicago Law School 53.1
University of Virginia School of Law 52.8
University of Michigan Law School 51
university of pennsylvania law school 50.8
New York University School of Law 50.1
University of California, Berkeley School of Law 50
Duke Law School 49.8

the national law journal/www.nlj.com ❙ february 22, 2010

[RVP11]

I tend to assume that anybody who will take median at Northwestern would take anybody outside the bottom third at CCN, but I might be wrong about that.

No.

'09 NLJ 250 Hiring by % of class

Northwestern University School of Law 55.9
Columbia Law School 54.4
Stanford Law School 54.1
University of Chicago Law School 53.1
University of Virginia School of Law 52.8
University of Michigan Law School 51
University of Pennsylvania Law School 50.8
New York University School of Law 50.1
University of California, Berkeley School of Law 50
Duke Law School 49.8

the national law journal/www.nlj.com ❙ february 22, 2010

0L?

[romothesavior]

I tend to assume that anybody who will take median at Northwestern would take anybody outside the bottom third at CCN, but I might be wrong about that.

No.

'09 NLJ 250 Hiring by % of class

Northwestern University School of Law 55.9
Columbia Law School 54.4
Stanford Law School 54.1
University of Chicago Law School 53.1
University of Virginia School of Law 52.8
University of Michigan Law School 51
University of Pennsylvania Law School 50.8
New York University School of Law 50.1
University of California, Berkeley School of Law 50
Duke Law School 49.8

the national law journal/www.nlj.com ❙ february 22, 2010

I have seen almost every post you've made on TLS thusfar, and I admire your blissful ignorance. But this is just poor analysis.

[MusicNutMeggie]

I tend to assume that anybody who will take median at Northwestern would take anybody outside the bottom third at CCN, but I might be wrong about that.

No.

'09 NLJ 250 Hiring by % of class

Northwestern University School of Law 55.9
Columbia Law School 54.4
Stanford Law School 54.1
University of Chicago Law School 53.1
University of Virginia School of Law 52.8
University of Michigan Law School 51
University of Pennsylvania Law School 50.8
New York University School of Law 50.1
University of California, Berkeley School of Law 50
Duke Law School 49.8

the national law journal/www.nlj.com ❙ february 22, 2010

Dude, four words: clerkships, fellowships, public interest

Notice how Y and H aren't even on the list? That's not because NLJ firms don't want Y and H grads; it's because more Y and H grads do clerkships and fellowships before going into BigLaw. There's also the question of prestigious PI positions.

[09042014]

I tend to assume that anybody who will take median at Northwestern would take anybody outside the bottom third at CCN, but I might be wrong about that.

No.

'09 NLJ 250 Hiring by % of class

Northwestern University School of Law 55.9
Columbia Law School 54.4
Stanford Law School 54.1
University of Chicago Law School 53.1
University of Virginia School of Law 52.8
University of Michigan Law School 51
University of Pennsylvania Law School 50.8
New York University School of Law 50.1
University of California, Berkeley School of Law 50
Duke Law School 49.8

the national law journal/www.nlj.com ❙ february 22, 2010

Dude, four words: clerkships, fellowships, public interest

Notice how Y and H aren't even on the list? That's not because NLJ firms don't want Y and H grads; it's because more Y and H grads do clerkships and fellowships before going into BigLaw. There's also the question of prestigious PI positions.

Nah, that isn't why its wrong. Columbia for example, doesn't place a large precentage into clerkships or PI.

The difference was in 2009, NYC firms "no offered" a lot more than Chicago firms did. This hit CCN harder than Northwestern.

Also even if you compare old economy numbers, you still can't get a general feel for where individual firms hire from. NU puts a lot of their marginal students into Chicago firms, who overvalue NU. The home field advantage evens the gap a lot.

And finally the economy seeming increased the distance between CCN and the rest of the t13.

[miamiman]

I seem also to recall that there was speculation that NU benefitted from fewer no-offers and a "safer" Chicago market that year. Obviously, that trend didn't apply this past OCI.

EDIT: fuck you DF. you always steal my thunder.

[Scallywaggums]

0L?

Yes, 0L here. Apparently I'm missing something?

Granted, it doesn't count Clerkships etc., but I think it's a good reason not to make the assumption in question.

In order for it to not indicate that this as an inaccurate assumption, there'd need to be more than a 17% difference between Northwestern and CCN in "other firms", "unemployed" and arguably other categories in the comprehensive graphs. I can't post the pdf I've saved, but most of you have already ran across "Where the class of 2005 found work. The top 100 out of 194 ABA-approved schools ranked by percentage of graduates at NLJ 250 firms" where they have different colors for various job categories. I just don't see that much difference, but perhaps it's there.

Not sure how thinking that a statistic that, while lacking sufficient detail, yet nevertheless suggests something relevant to call an assumption into question is reasonable grounds for discounting the assumption until convincing positive evidence in favor of said assumption is presented qualifies me as "blissfully ignorant".

[miamiman]

0L?

Yes, 0L here. Apparently I'm missing something?

Granted, it doesn't count Clerkships etc., but I think it's a good reason not to make the assumption in question.

In order for it to not indicate that this as an inaccurate assumption, there'd need to be more than a 17% difference between Northwestern and CCN in "other firms", "unemployed" and arguably other categories in the comprehensive graphs. I can't post the pdf I've saved, but most of you have already ran across "Where the class of 2005 found work. The top 100 out of 194 ABA-approved schools ranked by percentage of graduates at NLJ 250 firms" where they have different colors for various job categories. I just don't see that much difference, but perhaps it's there.

Not sure how thinking that a statistic that, while lacking sufficient detail, yet nevertheless suggests something relevant to call an assumption into question is reasonable grounds for discounting the assumption until convincing positive evidence in favor of said assumption is presented qualifies me as "blissfully ignorant".

Dude, your post is incoherent. You're wrong; it's not worth going into the details beyond what has already been posted. Anyhow, you seem nice. My advice is to simply sit back, shut up, and listen a bit more until you understand fully what is going on in the market.

[Scallywaggums]

Columbia for example, doesn't place a large precentage into clerkships or PI.

Indeed. Same with NYU. Yes, the economy has messed everything up, worse for NY than NU/Chicago-land, but this doesn't mean it's wrong to think the above assumption may be wrong.

I wasn't suggesting that NU grads have an easier time than Yale grads if they want to go into BigLaw, but again, the trend suggests something. Columbia, NYU, and Northwestern seem to be "the best students get into biglaw" style schools.

[TTT-LS]

,

[miamiman]

Expert 0L vs. Novice 0L: FIGHT!!

Seriously, guys. Give it a rest or get back to the point of the original post.

to be fair, it's somewhat impossible to advance this OP without cutoffs for CCN or even MVP.

[Scallywaggums]

Dude, your post is incoherent. You're wrong; it's not worth going into the details beyond what has already been posted. Anyhow, you seem nice. My advice is to simply sit back, shut up, and listen a bit more until you understand fully what is going on in the market.

There are many things I am unaware of, as I'm new to this. But my post was not incoherent. The 17% is the difference between median and top 2/3rds, I was assuming "other firms" and "unemployed" were relatively undesirable.

If we make the assumption that Median at NU has the same shot at top 2/3 at CCN, there should be a margin of at least 17% in undesirable job placement. This accounts for clerkships, PI, Academia etc.

I think Desert Fox hit on the biggest reason, but that doesn't make me wrong, that just means the numbers were right but couldn't tell the causal story on their own.