It isn’t even the close to being the highest paying firm in its home market of Miami. It’s in the second grouping of firms when it comes to comp (a group of firms pay market in Miami now). A firm that’s unwilling to be top dog even in its home market isn’t going to be willing to pay near market anywhere.Sackboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:46 pmGT has offices in SLC, Sacramento, Philadelphia, Albany, Atlanta, Denver, Vegas, Miami, etc. where they are probably very close to the top paying shop in town, even without bonuses. That means there aren't many places for people to jump ship to.Definitely Not North wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:23 pmwait did Greenberg seriously not pay full regular bonuses IN ADDITION to not paying fall bonuses?google doc wrote:Greenberg Trauig 53 $1,803,000 14 No. No.
I'm sure their talent in major markets is getting hit hard if they're not paying out bonuses, though. You also have to remember that folks might be at GT because they didn't have many (or any options) in the first place. They're not a top 20 firm in any major legal market, and they're probably not a top 50 firm in NY.
2021 Special Bonuses Forum
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Crazy that cleary matches with no hours requirements with an RPL just over $1M and there are a handful of firms that are significantly more profitable that add hours requirements to their bonuses...Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:44 pmNone for ClearyAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:39 pmAre there any requirements to these?
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Where are all the associate bonus hours-minimums apologists now? Although its such a self-defeating stance to take, I’m still not convinced those people aren’t plants...
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Willkie associate here. Willkie hasn’t matched DPW yet but I would be very shocked if they didn’t soon.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:10 pmGood question and I haven't heard from any of my friends. Maybe a Willkie attorney can enlighten us. That's the one shitty thing about being the first mover but props to Willkie for doing it. If I were there I wouldn't even be mad at them if they didn't up it again; they deserve a ton of credit for starting this and showing they care about associate / counsel comp. when partners are making so much money.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:35 pmDid Willkie ever end up matching the DPW bonus? I'm at Willkie and don't think I saw this.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:24 pmSkadden's decision to make the second payment in December makes no sense. If the purpose of these bonuses is to increase retention and improve morale, it's best to spread them about evenly throughout the year, which Willkie obviously realized as it planned the structure of its payment--smart thinking by them. So approximately April and August and then the big year-end bonus in December, or a payment every four(ish) months. Paying a "spring bonus" in December defeats the purpose of it. Skadden can be so weird at times. But at least everyone else is following more or less the Willkie / DPW schedule of spring and fall. This also is likely a way for firms to avoid having to do a separate fall bonus even if business is great, which it seems like it's going to be with the economy opening back up. Really smart thinking by Willkie the more you think about this.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Crazy position in a thread full of KE associates on pace to bill 3k. But the average hours at KE is only 1900 hours!!!Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 amWhere are all the associate bonus hours-minimums apologists now? Although its such a self-defeating stance to take, I’m still not convinced those people aren’t plants...
Being at a market paying high RPL firm is objectively low hourly salary and they just so happen to be no hours minimum firms.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Boy, that second sentence was a doozy to follow. Would a 1900hr avg at a firm looks like. Imagine stubs, new hires, maternity/paternity leave, part-time, and other folks could drag down the average when folks are really doing 2200-2300. Also not sure we should be using any historical hours averages to take jabs at anyone this year. Sounds like most firms made out like bandits. WSGR profit/revenue (too lazy to read the articles to tell which one went up by the number listed, just grabbing from headlines) up 26%, Wilmer 20%, Goodwin 20%, MWE 18%, Milbank 16%, Mayer Brown 11%, DLA 9% Pretty hard to have numbers jump up dramatically when the pool of new hires is relatively static and rates didn't see any abnormal increases. People literally have to be working more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:31 amCrazy position in a thread full of KE associates on pace to bill 3k. But the average hours at KE is only 1900 hours!!!
Being at a market paying high RPL firm is objectively low hourly salary and they just so happen to be no hours minimum firms.
- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Hello yes I am still here, and also deeply confused why you think this market would *strengthen* the no-minimum argument. V10 corp associates have been quoting insane hours for Q1. If it's a recession and Associate A (no minimum) bills 2000 and Associate B (minimum) bills 1500, they're making a relatively similar hourly wage. If it's boom time, Associate A at 2500 is making significantly less per hour than Associate B at 2000. Yes, there's more money subject to the thresholds now, but it's counteracted by the fact that more people than ever are going to hit them. I've missed my firm's minimum multiple times by 500+ hours because there was no way I was going to get there. This year I (corp midlevel) am going to bill Minimum + 1 for every date bonus is determined with no problem. To be clear: there are good arguments for no minimum; they're just not stronger when you're completely slammed. I assure you before I leave I'm going to a no-minimum firm to completely loaf it for a year; it just won't be now.Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 amWhere are all the associate bonus hours-minimums apologists now? Although its such a self-defeating stance to take, I’m still not convinced those people aren’t plants...
P.S. For proof I'm not a plant, please review my posting history of why all of my firm's partners should be launched into the sun.
- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
To be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.Sackboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:45 amBoy, that second sentence was a doozy to follow. Would a 1900hr avg at a firm looks like. Imagine stubs, new hires, maternity/paternity leave, part-time, and other folks could drag down the average when folks are really doing 2200-2300. Also not sure we should be using any historical hours averages to take jabs at anyone this year. Sounds like most firms made out like bandits. WSGR profit/revenue (too lazy to read the articles to tell which one went up by the number listed, just grabbing from headlines) up 26%, Wilmer 20%, Goodwin 20%, MWE 18%, Milbank 16%, Mayer Brown 11%, DLA 9% Pretty hard to have numbers jump up dramatically when the pool of new hires is relatively static and rates didn't see any abnormal increases. People literally have to be working more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:31 amCrazy position in a thread full of KE associates on pace to bill 3k. But the average hours at KE is only 1900 hours!!!
Being at a market paying high RPL firm is objectively low hourly salary and they just so happen to be no hours minimum firms.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
- bruinfan10
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
It's so trippy seeing people who were commenting with me in law school admissions and OCI forums now taking on the mantle of jaded seniors.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:22 amTo be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.Sackboy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:45 amBoy, that second sentence was a doozy to follow. Would a 1900hr avg at a firm looks like. Imagine stubs, new hires, maternity/paternity leave, part-time, and other folks could drag down the average when folks are really doing 2200-2300. Also not sure we should be using any historical hours averages to take jabs at anyone this year. Sounds like most firms made out like bandits. WSGR profit/revenue (too lazy to read the articles to tell which one went up by the number listed, just grabbing from headlines) up 26%, Wilmer 20%, Goodwin 20%, MWE 18%, Milbank 16%, Mayer Brown 11%, DLA 9% Pretty hard to have numbers jump up dramatically when the pool of new hires is relatively static and rates didn't see any abnormal increases. People literally have to be working more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:31 amCrazy position in a thread full of KE associates on pace to bill 3k. But the average hours at KE is only 1900 hours!!!
Being at a market paying high RPL firm is objectively low hourly salary and they just so happen to be no hours minimum firms.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
But yeah I'm with you, you don't want high-billers to feel left out in the cold. They should just leave some room to give megabillers more than the standard rate. Aren't some firms already saying top earners may get more spring $$$?
- Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
I started reading this forum in high school and posted for the first time at age 20. I now have a special massager for my back.bruinfan10 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:21 amIt's so trippy seeing people who were commenting with me in law school admissions and OCI forums now taking on the mantle of jaded seniors.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:22 amTo be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
But yeah I'm with you, you don't want high-billers to feel left out in the cold. They should just leave some room to give megabillers more than the standard rate. Aren't some firms already saying top earners may get more spring $$$?
My second-to-last post here, before this website gets fully cannibalized into Reddit, will be a lengthy screed on all the things I fucked up, starting with the first time I failed a biology test at 14 and went home the same night and Googled "what will I need to get into law school", and ending with my perma-counseling and/or heart attack. And my last post will be about the OCI implications of Kirkland buying Amazon and achieving a majority in the Senate.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
I generally enjoy your posts fwiw.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:45 amI started reading this forum in high school and posted for the first time at age 20. I now have a special massager for my back.bruinfan10 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:21 amIt's so trippy seeing people who were commenting with me in law school admissions and OCI forums now taking on the mantle of jaded seniors.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:22 amTo be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
But yeah I'm with you, you don't want high-billers to feel left out in the cold. They should just leave some room to give megabillers more than the standard rate. Aren't some firms already saying top earners may get more spring $$$?
My second-to-last post here, before this website gets fully cannibalized into Reddit, will be a lengthy screed on all the things I fucked up, starting with the first time I failed a biology test at 14 and went home the same night and Googled "what will I need to get into law school", and ending with my perma-counseling and/or heart attack. And my last post will be about the OCI implications of Kirkland buying Amazon and achieving a majority in the Senate.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Why don't law firms have a pre-planned process to instantly move on bonuses? There's no reason why they can't announce within hours of the first mover.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
What will you do after biglawMonochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:12 amHello yes I am still here, and also deeply confused why you think this market would *strengthen* the no-minimum argument. V10 corp associates have been quoting insane hours for Q1. If it's a recession and Associate A (no minimum) bills 2000 and Associate B (minimum) bills 1500, they're making a relatively similar hourly wage. If it's boom time, Associate A at 2500 is making significantly less per hour than Associate B at 2000. Yes, there's more money subject to the thresholds now, but it's counteracted by the fact that more people than ever are going to hit them. I've missed my firm's minimum multiple times by 500+ hours because there was no way I was going to get there. This year I (corp midlevel) am going to bill Minimum + 1 for every date bonus is determined with no problem. To be clear: there are good arguments for no minimum; they're just not stronger when you're completely slammed. I assure you before I leave I'm going to a no-minimum firm to completely loaf it for a year; it just won't be now.Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:24 amWhere are all the associate bonus hours-minimums apologists now? Although its such a self-defeating stance to take, I’m still not convinced those people aren’t plants...
P.S. For proof I'm not a plant, please review my posting history of why all of my firm's partners should be launched into the sun.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
ur writing and humor deserve better than the abyss that is corp biglawMonochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:45 amI started reading this forum in high school and posted for the first time at age 20. I now have a special massager for my back.bruinfan10 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:21 amIt's so trippy seeing people who were commenting with me in law school admissions and OCI forums now taking on the mantle of jaded seniors.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:22 amTo be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
But yeah I'm with you, you don't want high-billers to feel left out in the cold. They should just leave some room to give megabillers more than the standard rate. Aren't some firms already saying top earners may get more spring $$$?
My second-to-last post here, before this website gets fully cannibalized into Reddit, will be a lengthy screed on all the things I fucked up, starting with the first time I failed a biology test at 14 and went home the same night and Googled "what will I need to get into law school", and ending with my perma-counseling and/or heart attack. And my last post will be about the OCI implications of Kirkland buying Amazon and achieving a majority in the Senate.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:45 am
My second-to-last post here, before this website gets fully cannibalized into Reddit, will be a lengthy screed on all the things I fucked up, starting with the first time I failed a biology test at 14 and went home the same night and Googled "what will I need to get into law school", and ending with my perma-counseling and/or heart attack. And my last post will be about the OCI implications of Kirkland buying Amazon and achieving a majority in the Senate.
Genuinely LOL'd at this. FWIW, I think Kirkland will start to level off, with partner departures increasing, around the time of market corrections occurring in 2022. Will check in then.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
+1Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:56 amur writing and humor deserve better than the abyss that is corp biglawMonochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:45 amI started reading this forum in high school and posted for the first time at age 20. I now have a special massager for my back.bruinfan10 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:21 amIt's so trippy seeing people who were commenting with me in law school admissions and OCI forums now taking on the mantle of jaded seniors.Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:22 amTo be fair, your PPP can increase 10+% in a normal year even with flat demand with rate increases and increasing de-equitization/no new promotions or non-rainmaker hires. Then throw in Covid eliminating a lot of your biggest expenses (many firms didn't pay rent for at least a chunk of the year or hire worthless first-years until January) and see how high you can go.
Not to say that demand didn't go up--no clue. Just that it doesn't need to be true, or at least not the primary culprit, to see big PPP spikes.
But yeah I'm with you, you don't want high-billers to feel left out in the cold. They should just leave some room to give megabillers more than the standard rate. Aren't some firms already saying top earners may get more spring $$$?
My second-to-last post here, before this website gets fully cannibalized into Reddit, will be a lengthy screed on all the things I fucked up, starting with the first time I failed a biology test at 14 and went home the same night and Googled "what will I need to get into law school", and ending with my perma-counseling and/or heart attack. And my last post will be about the OCI implications of Kirkland buying Amazon and achieving a majority in the Senate.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
STB matched if people still care about that news in this thread. Paid in June and September, no hours requirement.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
Plenty of us still care about news vs. forum gossip. And that's great news, it solidifies this across the market.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:15 amSTB matched if people still care about that news in this thread. Paid in June and September, no hours requirement.
What is going on with Sullivan, Cravath, Kirkland, Latham? I hate how some of the "elite" firms drag ass whenever there's a comp. announcement like they don't want to accidentally announce too soon and then have to redo if someone beats them for "reputational" reasons. No one cares, just release the memo so we can get back to focusing on work again and making you money.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
One can hope that Kirkland is waiting for everyone to match the bonuses, only to blow everyone out of the water and match bonuses + give a salary increaseAnonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:32 amPlenty of us still care about news vs. forum gossip. And that's great news, it solidifies this across the market.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:15 amSTB matched if people still care about that news in this thread. Paid in June and September, no hours requirement.
What is going on with Sullivan, Cravath, Kirkland, Latham? I hate how some of the "elite" firms drag ass whenever there's a comp. announcement like they don't want to accidentally announce too soon and then have to redo if someone beats them for "reputational" reasons. No one cares, just release the memo so we can get back to focusing on work again and making you money.
- avenuem
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
To: AbovetheLaw
CC: Staci Zaretsky, Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino
RE: SPECIAL BONUS MEMORANDUM
DATE: MARCH 25, 2021
We have passed the point where we can easily track separate articles for each firm that announces bonuses.
Make a chart of all the firms by EOD pls.
thx.
Avenuem
CC: Staci Zaretsky, Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino
RE: SPECIAL BONUS MEMORANDUM
DATE: MARCH 25, 2021
We have passed the point where we can easily track separate articles for each firm that announces bonuses.
Make a chart of all the firms by EOD pls.
thx.
Avenuem
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
I agree with you, the bolded doesn't make sense. It's not like there's any reputational harm from going prematurely anyways! Everyone respects Willkie and DPW for tossing their hats in the ring and showing initiative, even if some other firm eventually comes over the top (assuming that Willkie and DPW match whatever the newer, higher level is).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:32 amPlenty of us still care about news vs. forum gossip. And that's great news, it solidifies this across the market.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:15 amSTB matched if people still care about that news in this thread. Paid in June and September, no hours requirement.
What is going on with Sullivan, Cravath, Kirkland, Latham? I hate how some of the "elite" firms drag ass whenever there's a comp. announcement like they don't want to accidentally announce too soon and then have to redo if someone beats them for "reputational" reasons. No one cares, just release the memo so we can get back to focusing on work again and making you money.
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
It's poker 101 to check-raise.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:51 amI agree with you, the bolded doesn't make sense. It's not like there's any reputational harm from going prematurely anyways! Everyone respects Willkie and DPW for tossing their hats in the ring and showing initiative, even if some other firm eventually comes over the top (assuming that Willkie and DPW match whatever the newer, higher level is).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:32 amPlenty of us still care about news vs. forum gossip. And that's great news, it solidifies this across the market.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:15 amSTB matched if people still care about that news in this thread. Paid in June and September, no hours requirement.
What is going on with Sullivan, Cravath, Kirkland, Latham? I hate how some of the "elite" firms drag ass whenever there's a comp. announcement like they don't want to accidentally announce too soon and then have to redo if someone beats them for "reputational" reasons. No one cares, just release the memo so we can get back to focusing on work again and making you money.
- lolwutpar
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- Definitely Not North
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
we did their work already: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0avenuem wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:45 amTo: AbovetheLaw
CC: Staci Zaretsky, Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino
RE: SPECIAL BONUS MEMORANDUM
DATE: MARCH 25, 2021
We have passed the point where we can easily track separate articles for each firm that announces bonuses.
Make a chart of all the firms by EOD pls.
thx.
Avenuem
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses
But it's also at least partly because there's no "market" right now as far as payment dates will be made. I'm assuming most firms will need committee meetings to figure at least that out, even if the amounts are more or less set in stone.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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