Cornell Law JJF 2021 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Career services should have been pushing pre-OCI much harder. Those of us who did it did it entirely on our own initiative. That was a major failing on their part.

I could not agree more. I literally didn't get anything useful from them. All my "real" mock interviews were done by upperclass friends where I got actual constructive advice that actually helped me improve. And I wished for a more quantitative, more informative, more detailed bidding guideline in writing like some other schools have, and there wasn't.

[Anonymous User]

Career services should have been pushing pre-OCI much harder. Those of us who did it did it entirely on our own initiative. That was a major failing on their part.

Agreed. Pre-OCI hiring is clearly here to stay; they misread the market.

[Anonymous User]

Career services should have been pushing pre-OCI much harder. Those of us who did it did it entirely on our own initiative. That was a major failing on their part.

Agreed. Pre-OCI hiring is clearly here to stay; they misread the market.

Wouldn't be surprised to see career services get downsized in near future as it's getting harder & harder to justify their value add

[Anonymous User]

I think a lot of people went to Cornell with the reasonable expectation that, assuming the economy didn’t tank and they performed somewhere around the median, some generic NYC BigLaw job would be relatively easy to get. For some of us (raises hand!) it was the best school we could get into. Others turned down higher ranking schools because generic NYC BigLaw was enough and they weren’t gunning for SCOTUS clerkships etc.

Obviously, one of the assumptions that guided that decision didn’t hold. The economy/hiring market isn’t what it was just a year ago.

I guess the point is that that just sucks and that the appropriate response to folks who have struck out is sympathy, not “Should have gone to Harvard, newb!”

I truly hope things work out for all of you.

Agreed. This process is brutal and I feel for everyone going through it, especially those who are disappointed with the results thus far. We've all invested so much into this process, so to be denied the one thing that made it all worth it for many of us is an incredible disappointment. I would encourage those people to begin mass mailing as soon as possible and to reach out to OCS for guidance. I would also encourage them, if they're not doing so already, to look beyond NYC. There are lots of solid firms throughout the nation! A geographical change is better than unemployment.

[Anonymous User]

Posting as a recent alum:

You have all been royally screwed by career services. It's nothing to do with how big law views Cornell. I'm actually seeing Cornell students get as many if not more offers than usual at my v10 firm. What I can say is that above posters are correct that summer classes were 1/4 to 1/3 full before any OCIs actually began, which if I remember Cornell career services does not mention.

But where you've actually been screwed is the timing of the JJF. Cornell is the LAST T13 job fair and the ONLY one that was that week. The 12 schools ahead of Cornell all held their job fairs either the week before you, or two weeks before you. I had done Sanford and Yale OCI callbacks before your bid lists were even due. There was never a chance you would perform well because slots were simply gone. I know my firm has gone to three job fairs after Cornell-- Howard, Fordham, Georgetown.

You never stood a chance, blame De rosa et al.

[Anonymous User]

Posting as a recent alum:

You have all been royally screwed by career services. It's nothing to do with how big law views Cornell. I'm actually seeing Cornell students get as many if not more offers than usual at my v10 firm. What I can say is that above posters are correct that summer classes were 1/4 to 1/3 full before any OCIs actually began, which if I remember Cornell career services does not mention.

But where you've actually been screwed is the timing of the JJF. Cornell is the LAST T13 job fair and the ONLY one that was that week. The 12 schools ahead of Cornell all held their job fairs either the week before you, or two weeks before you. I had done Sanford and Yale OCI callbacks before your bid lists were even due. There was never a chance you would perform well because slots were simply gone. I know my firm has gone to three job fairs after Cornell-- Howard, Fordham, Georgetown.

You never stood a chance, blame De rosa et al.

Yikes - that's not what I wanted to read...

[Anonymous User]

They were telling the truth when they said “We really don’t know what the hiring market will be like.”

But then they had two choices. They could have told us “...so you’d be well advised to hustle for opportunities as soon as possible.”

Instead they went with “... so sit tight and we’ll see.”

I guess the difference for them is that the first response would have generated more neurotic emails that they’d have to answer. Which is their job, I think.

[Anonymous User]

Posting as a recent alum:

You have all been royally screwed by career services. It's nothing to do with how big law views Cornell. I'm actually seeing Cornell students get as many if not more offers than usual at my v10 firm. What I can say is that above posters are correct that summer classes were 1/4 to 1/3 full before any OCIs actually began, which if I remember Cornell career services does not mention.

But where you've actually been screwed is the timing of the JJF. Cornell is the LAST T13 job fair and the ONLY one that was that week. The 12 schools ahead of Cornell all held their job fairs either the week before you, or two weeks before you. I had done Sanford and Yale OCI callbacks before your bid lists were even due. There was never a chance you would perform well because slots were simply gone. I know my firm has gone to three job fairs after Cornell-- Howard, Fordham, Georgetown.

You never stood a chance, blame De rosa et al.

This is so accurate

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, there's been a weird push in recent years where people just look at Big Law % when choosing schools and say that you should take the scholarship money over prestige.

But as this process is showing, not all big law firms are the same. And they certainly don't consider all the T14 schools the same. I can't help but wonder if I made a mistake in choosing $$$ over a better ranked school

Do you feel as if HLS/Columbia/NYU are faring substantially better?

...I mean they definitely are. They're having CBs with firms and just wondering if/when they'll hear back.

Here, we're not even getting past the screener phase.

That's not true. Lots of people are racking up CBs (see above in the thread: some had 9-11 CBs). There's just a lot of variation this year. Some people are cleaning up, while others are getting 1-3. Looks like the same thing is happening at CLS.

some offices like Skadden HK would not even collect resume from our school but they went to OCI at CLS and NYU

Not to mention that the people with 9-11 CBs might actually be interviewing with less-selective firms than those students at CLS & NYU with 9-11 CBs....

Again, not all BigLaw firms are the same. And as I learned the hard way this year, they don't view the T14 schools the same. Not even remotely close

No one is arguing that all BigLaw firms are the same, nor is anyone arguing that they treat every t14 the same either. That's not the takeaway from this cycle, because it's the reality every cycle that students at those schools land more competitive firms with greater ease. The takeaway from this cycle is that a ton of students at all t14 schools and elsewhere seem to be underperforming their GPAs. You'll see several students on the NYU and CLS thread talking about this. I don't recall seeing students anywhere on that thread talking about their peers cleaning up 9-11 CBs with the country's most selective firms. I'm sure it's happened, just as I know some students here have performed well with selective firms, but it seems to be happening with a lot less frequency this year.

just to contribute data point, i have 2 friends going to NYU and they both got CBs from Wachtell+Cravath (among several other v10s). I think the cases at Cornell and NYU/CLS is similar in that well-positioned ppl are doing even better this year, while average candidates (like me) are doing worse. It was also kind of eye-opening to learn from said friends that NYU has 180 screener slots for Cleary and more than 100 for Cravath/S&C. I know their class size is much larger than ours, but it's still jarring to see the difference.

[Anonymous User]

Posting as a recent alum:

You have all been royally screwed by career services. It's nothing to do with how big law views Cornell. I'm actually seeing Cornell students get as many if not more offers than usual at my v10 firm. What I can say is that above posters are correct that summer classes were 1/4 to 1/3 full before any OCIs actually began, which if I remember Cornell career services does not mention.

But where you've actually been screwed is the timing of the JJF. Cornell is the LAST T13 job fair and the ONLY one that was that week. The 12 schools ahead of Cornell all held their job fairs either the week before you, or two weeks before you. I had done Sanford and Yale OCI callbacks before your bid lists were even due. There was never a chance you would perform well because slots were simply gone. I know my firm has gone to three job fairs after Cornell-- Howard, Fordham, Georgetown.

You never stood a chance, blame De rosa et al.

What I don't get is how OCS could fail to take this into consideration. Surely it would have been obvious to them? How much say do the firms themselves have over when schools do their job fairs?

[Anonymous User]

Do you feel as if HLS/Columbia/NYU are faring substantially better?

...I mean they definitely are. They're having CBs with firms and just wondering if/when they'll hear back.

Here, we're not even getting past the screener phase.

That's not true. Lots of people are racking up CBs (see above in the thread: some had 9-11 CBs). There's just a lot of variation this year. Some people are cleaning up, while others are getting 1-3. Looks like the same thing is happening at CLS.

some offices like Skadden HK would not even collect resume from our school but they went to OCI at CLS and NYU

Not to mention that the people with 9-11 CBs might actually be interviewing with less-selective firms than those students at CLS & NYU with 9-11 CBs....

Again, not all BigLaw firms are the same. And as I learned the hard way this year, they don't view the T14 schools the same. Not even remotely close

No one is arguing that all BigLaw firms are the same, nor is anyone arguing that they treat every t14 the same either. That's not the takeaway from this cycle, because it's the reality every cycle that students at those schools land more competitive firms with greater ease. The takeaway from this cycle is that a ton of students at all t14 schools and elsewhere seem to be underperforming their GPAs. You'll see several students on the NYU and CLS thread talking about this. I don't recall seeing students anywhere on that thread talking about their peers cleaning up 9-11 CBs with the country's most selective firms. I'm sure it's happened, just as I know some students here have performed well with selective firms, but it seems to be happening with a lot less frequency this year.

just to contribute data point, i have 2 friends going to NYU and they both got CBs from Wachtell+Cravath (among several other v10s). I think the cases at Cornell and NYU/CLS is similar in that well-positioned ppl are doing even better this year, while average candidates (like me) are doing worse. It was also kind of eye-opening to learn from said friends that NYU has 180 screener slots for Cleary and more than 100 for Cravath/S&C. I know their class size is much larger than ours, but it's still jarring to see the difference.

It's no secret that those firms recruit more out of CLS and NYU than they do here; it's been that way for decades. But I do agree that it's nonetheless jarring to see some of the figures.

[Anonymous User]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

[Anonymous User]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

Just got a MoFo ding today

[Anonymous User]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

Haven't heard anything from any of these firms. Akin will probably get to Cornell students soon. I think they're doing NYU students first?

[Anonymous User]

CLS student with (perhaps) some perspective. My friends and I who did not do pre-EIP realized that we made a major mistake. The outlook for a lot of students is not good. Friends in the top third have not gotten callbacks at firms that call back 70+% of students, friends in the top 10% still have 0 offers despite interviewing well in general, firms seems to be requiring WE, etc. The students who seem to be doing well (other than underrepresented groups) are top 10% with at least a couple of years of WE. I admittedly fall into the latter category so have been doing well, but I seem to be the exception. Everyone else seems to be getting hosed, sometimes with no callbacks or callbacks but no offer.

[Anonymous User]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

A friend of mine got Withers CB yesterday

[Anonymous User]

CLS student with (perhaps) some perspective. My friends and I who did not do pre-EIP realized that we made a major mistake. The outlook for a lot of students is not good. Friends in the top third have not gotten callbacks at firms that call back 70+% of students, friends in the top 10% still have 0 offers despite interviewing well in general, firms seems to be requiring WE, etc. The students who seem to be doing well (other than underrepresented groups) are top 10% with at least a couple of years of WE. I admittedly fall into the latter category so have been doing well, but I seem to be the exception. Everyone else seems to be getting hosed, sometimes with no callbacks or callbacks but no offer.

This checks out. Firms were extremely active with pre-OCI hiring; someone wrote on the HLS thread that Davis Polk had roughly 40% of its class filled by the time OCI began. The clear takeaway is to mass apply before OCI.

[Anonymous User]

cahill cb ding, i must have done something wrong

When was the CB/how did the rejection come in?

[Anonymous User]

cahill cb ding, i must have done something wrong

When was the CB/how did the rejection come in?

pre-OCI cb/tuesday evening p.s. im not the original poster

[joycool9567]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

Don't know if you are talking bout CB or offer from MoFo but I have a CB scheduled for next Tuesday. Don't know if anyone had their CBs already for MoFo.

Also got an offer from V40 firm

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the current average turnaround time is from CB to offer/rejection?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the current average turnaround time is from CB to offer/rejection?

this really depends on the firm

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone who didn't do pre-OCI received an offer yet? If so from which firm(s)?

[Anonymous User]

STB Houston CB

[Anonymous User]

As much as I want to rag on Career Services (seriously, I could go all day), can I interrupt this convo to ask if anyone has heard back from either MoFo, Akin Gump or Withers Bergman (all NYC)?

Got a Withers cb on Tuesday