Fall bonuses Forum

[TLSposter1990]

I’m super intrigued by Cravath’s silence thus far, considering it would have made sense to have heard from them this past Monday. Any chance they’re planning to come over the top of DPW? I don’t see why they would, though I could also see the scale being slightly increased (by 5-10k) starting third year on up. It would assert some dominance and, as an earlier poster said, would be cheap for them relative to many of their larger competitors.

[esther0123]

I’m super intrigued by Cravath’s silence thus far, considering it would have made sense to have heard from them this past Monday. Any chance they’re planning to come over the top of DPW? I don’t see why they would, though I could also see the scale being slightly increased (by 5-10k) starting third year on up. It would assert some dominance and, as an earlier poster said, would be cheap for them relative to many of their larger competitors.

Adding no value other than speculation here, but if that were the case (that they were planning on coming over the top of DPW), why stall? Maybe they're trying to see if anyone ELSE is going to top DPW? Or financial troubles? I would think that the firm will lay off associates and push out partners before it be outshined or outcompensated by others.

[glitched]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

End of August. But yes, same point applies. It would only make sense to leave Kirkland now -- whether or not they gave out fall bonuses -- if you went to another firm that gave you comfort around year-end bonuses and topped you off with a signing bonus so you could end the year with the same comp you would have received had you stayed at Kirkland. I know one Kirkland mid-level who is doing just that, at PW. PW, where the fall bonus at?

[thelawyler]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

great excuse for these K&E associates to interview elsewhere in the next three months though. I heard it's easy to interview now because you don't even need to sneak out - just zoom at home for 30 minute blocks for each interview and bill in between.

Set up a lateral move - wait for bonus - then move. I don't see what's so strategic about what they did. People were going to do this anyways if they were going to move firms, but their move just encouraged more associates to start looking.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

End of August. But yes, same point applies. It would only make sense to leave Kirkland now -- whether or not they gave out fall bonuses -- if you went to another firm that gave you comfort around year-end bonuses and topped you off with a signing bonus so you could end the year with the same comp you would have received had you stayed at Kirkland. I know one Kirkland mid-level who is doing just that, at PW. PW, where the fall bonus at?

At this point I’m half expecting to receive an excited midnight email from our chairman announcing that the firm donated the bonus money to a Biden super PAC

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

End of August. But yes, same point applies. It would only make sense to leave Kirkland now -- whether or not they gave out fall bonuses -- if you went to another firm that gave you comfort around year-end bonuses and topped you off with a signing bonus so you could end the year with the same comp you would have received had you stayed at Kirkland. I know one Kirkland mid-level who is doing just that, at PW. PW, where the fall bonus at?

This is wrong. The fiscal year ends in February. That’s something only the partners care about. The BONUS YEAR (what associates care about because it’s the year in which our billable hours are calculated) ends on 9/30.

[Anonymous User]

(Blanking accidental duplicate reply. Mods please note that I only posted the information above because I was able to be anonymous and because the notice at the top of the page says I can anonymously reply on topic, which this is. I would have chosen to stay out of the conversation rather than using my name.)

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

End of August. But yes, same point applies. It would only make sense to leave Kirkland now -- whether or not they gave out fall bonuses -- if you went to another firm that gave you comfort around year-end bonuses and topped you off with a signing bonus so you could end the year with the same comp you would have received had you stayed at Kirkland. I know one Kirkland mid-level who is doing just that, at PW. PW, where the fall bonus at?

This is wrong. The fiscal year ends in February. That’s something only the partners care about. The BONUS YEAR (what associates care about because it’s the year in which our billable hours are calculated) ends on 9/30.

Yes, that’s what I meant — end of the bonus year (the only thing associates should really care about). But it’s end of August unless they changed something in the last 18 months since I left.

[frqw9201]

(Blanking accidental duplicate reply. Mods please note that I only posted the information above because I was able to be anonymous and because the notice at the top of the page says I can anonymously reply on topic, which this is. I would have chosen to stay out of the conversation rather than using my name.)

Why do you need to be anonymous to point out when the fiscal year ends? Didn't know that was sensitive information. You also realize that your username isn't your real name, right?

[TigerIsBack]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn't KE's fiscal year end in June? I feel like that played some role in their decision. Like they have data that shows people won't leave until December for money they already earned. So they just have to make right by then. If not, then people will likely leave.

End of August. But yes, same point applies. It would only make sense to leave Kirkland now -- whether or not they gave out fall bonuses -- if you went to another firm that gave you comfort around year-end bonuses and topped you off with a signing bonus so you could end the year with the same comp you would have received had you stayed at Kirkland. I know one Kirkland mid-level who is doing just that, at PW. PW, where the fall bonus at?

This is wrong. The fiscal year ends in February. That’s something only the partners care about. The BONUS YEAR (what associates care about because it’s the year in which our billable hours are calculated) ends on 9/30.

Pretty sure the bonus year runs 9/1 through 8/31. The review year runs 8/1 through 7/31, I think. I have no idea why they’re different, and I think they intentionally make it difficult to have a clean “end” point - other than a year-end bonus. But even then, if you’ve been busy over the last four months, you won’t see that reflected in a fat above-market bonus unless you finish the bonus year through August! And of course, stick it out through year end to actually collect that bonus... Rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous User]

At Skadden and presuming that the partners haven't matched yet because they would have to match across every US office and for US associates abroad, which would be very costly. However, it's really discouraging how late to the party they are. Morale is already low. How are both firms in the V2 silent right now?

[Anonymous User]

[deleted]

[ChairmanKaga]

I agree Cravath's silence is interesting given their history on comp. I wonder if Cravath might defer until December, but then add the fall amounts to the usual year-end amounts in order to establish a new, higher scale which would apply beyond 2020. One can hope.

The interesting pattern here (acknowledging it's too early to call it a pattern) is that the firms with 1000+ US associates like Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, Gibson and Sidley haven't been rushing to pay these bonuses.

[cheaptilts]

(Blanking accidental duplicate reply. Mods please note that I only posted the information above because I was able to be anonymous and because the notice at the top of the page says I can anonymously reply on topic, which this is. I would have chosen to stay out of the conversation rather than using my name.)

Why do you need to be anonymous to point out when the fiscal year ends? Didn't know that was sensitive information. You also realize that your username isn't your real name, right?

Because it out the person as someone who likely works at K&E. The real question is why do you care?

[Anonymous User]

I agree Cravath's silence is interesting given their history on comp. I wonder if Cravath might defer until December, but then add the fall amounts to the usual year-end amounts in order to establish a new, higher scale which would apply beyond 2020. One can hope.

The interesting pattern here (acknowledging it's too early to call it a pattern) is that the firms with 1000+ US associates like Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, Gibson and Sidley haven't been rushing to pay these bonuses.

At Skadden and that has been clear to us, but we matched so quickly in 2016 and 2018 that I had hope. Weil is also silent and presumably that's because it's in the same boat as the firms you mention above (would have to pay across 8 offices at least), but I also wonder what firms like PW and CGSH are going to do. They would only be matching for 2 or 3 offices.

[frqw9201]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

I don't, but they really really seem to, for absolutely no reason. I am sure people who don't work at KE know when their bonus year is. Its not a secret fundamental to the survival of the firm. But I guess someone this worried and uptight is the standard type that would be at KE.

Who cares if people know that (random online username) works at KE?

[cornerstone]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

I don't, but they really really seem to, for absolutely no reason. I am sure people who don't work at KE know when their bonus year is. Its not a secret fundamental to the survival of the firm. But I guess someone this worried and uptight is the standard type that would be at KE.

Who cares if people know that (random online username) works at KE?

I sent you a lengthy PM about use of anon on this thread. I hope you'll consider some of those points. TL;DR is it's not just about associating a username with KE. The more someone posts, the more likely the totality of the posts would identify a person.

People are especially sensitive to that when it comes to employment. Do you really want a partner asking why you made a particular post about the firm on TLS?

[TigerIsBack]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

I don't, but they really really seem to, for absolutely no reason. I am sure people who don't work at KE know when their bonus year is. Its not a secret fundamental to the survival of the firm. But I guess someone this worried and uptight is the standard type that would be at KE.

Who cares if people know that (random online username) works at KE?

Yeah it sounds like you're unaware of the aggregation of posting. If you click a username, you can see their entire post history. So they mention here they work at KE, but maybe a year ago they mention that they lateralled from a smaller firm in SV to a big firm in Chicago...so now if you're a KE partner and put those together, you can probably identify the individual despite their username. And then if that person was complaining about KE not paying these bonuses, they probably don't want their partners knowing that.

So no need to worry about the anon use, lets focus on bonuses and which firms are announcing next and when. (Skadden/Cravath/v20 where you at?)

[Anonymous User]

Curious whether there's any interplay between fall bonuses and first year start dates. Are Debevoise/S&C/DPW/Milbank first years starting on time?

I’d imagine this has more to do with summer associate hiring/recruiting timing. With the recruiting largely pushed to early 2021, a special market bonus and then a strong EOY bonus will bode well for those firms in 2021.

I only ask bc Proskauer just delayed first year start dates to end of January. Unclear whether it's a move to make some additional room for fall bonuses, to dig in to the narrative that PR can't afford special bonuses, or just innocuous.

Can anyone at Proskauer speak to how the firm is doing? Wasn't happy to hear this as other firms bring up their start dates from January to the fall.

[Vexed]

At Skadden and presuming that the partners haven't matched yet because they would have to match across every US office and for US associates abroad, which would be very costly. However, it's really discouraging how late to the party they are. Morale is already low. How are both firms in the V2 silent right now?

none of this is "costly". this is like less than a week of billables per associate in a year where non-salary firm expenditures on associates and recruiting are as low as they'll ever be.

[Anonymous User]

Curious whether there's any interplay between fall bonuses and first year start dates. Are Debevoise/S&C/DPW/Milbank first years starting on time?

I’d imagine this has more to do with summer associate hiring/recruiting timing. With the recruiting largely pushed to early 2021, a special market bonus and then a strong EOY bonus will bode well for those firms in 2021.

I only ask bc Proskauer just delayed first year start dates to end of January. Unclear whether it's a move to make some additional room for fall bonuses, to dig in to the narrative that PR can't afford special bonuses, or just innocuous.

Can anyone at Proskauer speak to how the firm is doing? Wasn't happy to hear this as other firms bring up their start dates from January to the fall.

Will likely know more from a fall bonuses perspective following an "associate check-in" with the chairman tomorrow afternoon, which was (somewhat ominously) scheduled this past Friday. From an overall firm health perspective, it's hard to say. Since the beginning of the pandemic, we haven't had visibility into which groups slowed down and which, if any, picked up, and the impact on revenues overall during the past 6+ months. Big private credit and general finance practice on the lender side here, so the finance group was busy doing credit agreement amendments, borrower workouts, debt to equity swaps, hovering around bankruptcies (credit bids), etc. Labor and employment generally got busier. M&A generally slowed down. I don't know that restructuring picked up more than it otherwise had been (biggest case here is the Puerto Rico bankruptcy, which moved along at the same pace as always). Sports, litigation, cap markets: I'm just not sure overall. I believe partners reduced draws, and I wouldn't be surprised if the overall result was that we took a hit for ~6 months, which was somewhat mitigated by some groups picking up slack, but not enough to make 2020 better than 2019. May know more tomorrow afternoon.

[Anonymous User]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

I don't, but they really really seem to, for absolutely no reason. I am sure people who don't work at KE know when their bonus year is. Its not a secret fundamental to the survival of the firm. But I guess someone this worried and uptight is the standard type that would be at KE.

Who cares if people know that (random online username) works at KE?

I sent you a lengthy PM about use of anon on this thread. I hope you'll consider some of those points. TL;DR is it's not just about associating a username with KE. The more someone posts, the more likely the totality of the posts would identify a person.

People are especially sensitive to that when it comes to employment. Do you really want a partner asking why you made a particular post about the firm on TLS?

I would assume partners at KE are a bit too busy to troll around for hours trying to identify posters on TLS.
But I get your larger point generally.

[Anonymous User]

^ who cares if they're anonymous?

But personally I'd be anon too about posting KEs fiscal year...presumably its someone that worked there.

I don't, but they really really seem to, for absolutely no reason. I am sure people who don't work at KE know when their bonus year is. Its not a secret fundamental to the survival of the firm. But I guess someone this worried and uptight is the standard type that would be at KE.

Who cares if people know that (random online username) works at KE?

I sent you a lengthy PM about use of anon on this thread. I hope you'll consider some of those points. TL;DR is it's not just about associating a username with KE. The more someone posts, the more likely the totality of the posts would identify a person.

People are especially sensitive to that when it comes to employment. Do you really want a partner asking why you made a particular post about the firm on TLS?

I would assume partners at KE are a bit too busy to troll around for hours trying to identify posters on TLS.
But I get your larger point generally.

If you’re a 7th year or up, at Kirkland, you’re a partner. You submit formal reviews of the (1-6 year) associates. Bad reviews affect bonuses, staffing, whether or not you get fired, etc. I imagine we have some 7th years or whatever on this board. I don’t want my NSPs figuring out who I am and that I share conversations within the firm on TLS.