Kirkland Bonuses? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

My suspicion is that the run of the mill 2000/3 in a practice group that isn’t on fire will get the same thing that they usually get, while big billers and maybe even people in certain practice groups get very high multipliers that are intended to serve retention purposes.

And I imagine that could be a reason for sharing zero details about bonuses to the whole firm, because there are likely going to be wider disparities than usual across associates (and maybe across practice groups) and they don’t want the people on the lower end to know where they are.

But I still think the 2000/3 people of the world will get their approximately 1.2x.

Interesting take. That seems very possible actually. I guess the proof will be in the pudding Friday when numbers start coming out and we share here. Will be interesting to see if there are these wide disparities.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

[Anonymous User]

There seemed to be an overpromise-underdeliver issue last year so I wonder if they are trying for the opposite this year. The 2.5 day delay between the meeting and memos doesn’t help though. Meeting should’ve been on Friday.

[Ultramar vistas]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

Speaking of cringe and melodrama… maybe self assess?

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

I don’t know who to believe here so I think I’m going to just withhold judgment until actual numbers start coming out.

People are going to be fixated, I’m speculating, on eye-watering numbers from high billers in in-demand practice groups but I’m much more interested in how an “average” associate (2000/3) gets treated because that tells you more about the basic comp model.

If the 2000/3 just gets DPW scale then that’s a major piece of old KE culture that they’ve finally killed off. 10 years ago that guy was getting 1.5-2x. Last year he got 1.25x.

If it’s just that they’re wary of revealing spreads between groups and your average associate is still getting a decent multiplier that’s different.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

Strikes me as overly dramatic. Maybe they're leaving themselves an out for people that are actually less than the 3/2000. Hard to see them deviating from past practice on giving average performers above-average bonuses. But I guess we'll see on Friday (assuming people don't just lie about their status, i.e., claim they're 3/2000 even if they aren't).

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

I don’t know who to believe here so I think I’m going to just withhold judgment until actual numbers start coming out.

People are going to be fixated, I’m speculating, on eye-watering numbers from high billers in in-demand practice groups but I’m much more interested in how an “average” associate (2000/3) gets treated because that tells you more about the basic comp model.

If the 2000/3 just gets DPW scale then that’s a major piece of old KE culture that they’ve finally killed off. 10 years ago that guy was getting 1.5-2x. Last year he got 1.25x.

If it’s just that they’re wary of revealing spreads between groups and your average associate is still getting a decent multiplier that’s different.

How are you even going to know what the 2000/3 in the average group gets?

[Anonymous User]

There seemed to be an overpromise-underdeliver issue last year so I wonder if they are trying for the opposite this year. The 2.5 day delay between the meeting and memos doesn’t help though. Meeting should’ve been on Friday.

Agreed on both parts. The Zoom last year was like the polar opposite of this - it was all about how shockingly huge the bonuses were gonna be. Ballis talked about bonuses for literally one minute during this one though.

And why not do this on Friday, or alternatively, send the memos today? Just weird to have this lag time.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

I don’t know who to believe here so I think I’m going to just withhold judgment until actual numbers start coming out.

People are going to be fixated, I’m speculating, on eye-watering numbers from high billers in in-demand practice groups but I’m much more interested in how an “average” associate (2000/3) gets treated because that tells you more about the basic comp model.

If the 2000/3 just gets DPW scale then that’s a major piece of old KE culture that they’ve finally killed off. 10 years ago that guy was getting 1.5-2x. Last year he got 1.25x.

If it’s just that they’re wary of revealing spreads between groups and your average associate is still getting a decent multiplier that’s different.

How are you even going to know what the 2000/3 in the average group gets?

Exactly. Picture this: you’re a fine, average 3rd year who billed 2000 and got a 3. Your bonus is 1.25x. Are you happy on Friday? I imagine you are!

Now picture that Ballis told you today that the average/median is 1.4x and some people are getting over 2x. Still happy with the 1.25x, even though you know that the higher average is because of people who billed a lot more than you? Probably less so.

That’s why they provided no details I think.

[Anonymous User]

The mythical 1.5-2x for a very average associate from the days of old NEVER existed. I'm not sure how that even became a part of associate lore.

[Anonymous User]

Ok, now that we know when associates are getting memos, it would be nice for some confirmation about when NSPs will get theirs.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

[Anonymous User]

The mythical 1.5-2x for a very average associate from the days of old NEVER existed. I'm not sure how that even became a part of associate lore.

Yes it did. I've been at the firm for 10+ years and it was confirmed to be happening up through the OG Deepwater days. It started changing in the early 10s.

[Anonymous User]

The mythical 1.5-2x for a very average associate from the days of old NEVER existed. I'm not sure how that even became a part of associate lore.

Yes it did. I've been at the firm for 10+ years and it was confirmed to be happening up through the OG Deepwater days. It started changing in the early 10s.

Are you an SP?

[Anonymous User]

Ok, now that we know when associates are getting memos, it would be nice for some confirmation about when NSPs will get theirs.

Typically at the same time as the associate memos.

[Anonymous User]

Nsp so We aren’t invited to this stuff—what’s the issue? Just that if you put in 2k/with class you’re getting dpw?

[Anonymous User]

Nsp so We aren’t invited to this stuff—what’s the issue? Just that if you put in 2k/with class you’re getting dpw?

I thought I was still on Outlook when I saw an NSP chime in with a short question asking for someone to regurgitate the content that had just been written out in more detail.

Short answer is nobody will know until Friday

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

It certainly sounds like prestige matters to you. K&E has never been about prestige, it was always purely about making money.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

It certainly sounds like prestige matters to you. K&E has never been about prestige, it was always purely about making money.

If you had above an SLC-level of reading comprehension, you would see I was pointing out the irony of going on about prestige when K&E has pretty much rejected the concept altogether.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

It certainly sounds like prestige matters to you. K&E has never been about prestige, it was always purely about making money.

If you had above an SLC-level of reading comprehension, you would see I was pointing out the irony of going on about prestige when K&E has pretty much rejected the concept altogether.

It's always good to have confirmation that Kirkland's reputation didn't come out of nowhere. On the other hand, if you were on that call then we know you very likely won't be at the firm that long, so you don't particularly matter. Enjoy your bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

It certainly sounds like prestige matters to you. K&E has never been about prestige, it was always purely about making money.

If you had above an SLC-level of reading comprehension, you would see I was pointing out the irony of going on about prestige when K&E has pretty much rejected the concept altogether.

It's always good to have confirmation that Kirkland's reputation didn't come out of nowhere. On the other hand, if you were on that call then we know you very likely won't be at the firm that long, so you don't particularly matter. Enjoy your bonus.

not the person you're replying to, but what does the bolded mean? was on a call during "the" call.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus guys, no fighting in the War Room.

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit that was bad. My takeaway is that Kirkland isn’t giving a multiplier to your average 2000/3 associate anymore which is sort of shocking and against all historical practice. Am I misreading things / being overly dramatic here or did others get that same impression.

Correct. It's the first time ever they've said nothing about a multiplier or setting the floor at a level that beats the NYC market. Indeed he literally said the floor was the NYC market. Also the first time ever we've had a town hall with as much cringe and melodrama.

My guess is we now have such a riduclous number of associates globally that it's too expensive to follow the previous model. And our reputation is so trashed that slightly market-beating bonuses aren't going to be attracting laterals anyway.

My guess is that there will be a fair amount of associates who get "market shattering" bonuses, even 2x for stars. But rank and file will be right at the floor.

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

It certainly sounds like prestige matters to you. K&E has never been about prestige, it was always purely about making money.

If you had above an SLC-level of reading comprehension, you would see I was pointing out the irony of going on about prestige when K&E has pretty much rejected the concept altogether.

It's always good to have confirmation that Kirkland's reputation didn't come out of nowhere. On the other hand, if you were on that call then we know you very likely won't be at the firm that long, so you don't particularly matter. Enjoy your bonus.

not the person you're replying to, but what does the bolded mean? was on a call during "the" call.

I assumed it was a general comment about associate attrition?

[Anonymous User]

Also, yeah, the whole speech about prestige when K&E literally went into salTTT lake city and cold offered a bunch of ppl from small firms who have never worked a saturday in their life (and it shows).... kind of fell flat. Criticism of these associates aside, this was an objectively non-prestigious move (not debating whether "preftige" even matters, just saying objectively....)

This is an ignorant comment. I haven’t looked at the entire roster but I know from my office as well as law school friends that being the first to SLC allowed us to poach just about any Mormon biglaw attorney in the country that we wanted. And apparently many Mormons love to migrate back to Utah at some point in their careers so this was a retention/recruiting play.

Now maybe SLC has some associates from local schools and local firms, but so do all of our offices at this point. Certainly not unique to SLC.

Regardless, laughable to say that opening in ANY city, even if it’s Omaha, would hurt prestige. Short of maybe Wachtell, no firm is going to hurt their prestige by opening a small office somewhere. Clients don’t care, it doesn’t hurt revenue or (presumably) profitability, and if anything it allows market share to expand.

So I’m sorry if you had a bad breakup with a girl from SLC, but this analysis is non-sensical.

[thisismytlsuername]

Nsp so We aren’t invited to this stuff—what’s the issue? Just that if you put in 2k/with class you’re getting dpw?

I thought I was still on Outlook when I saw an NSP chime in with a short question asking for someone to regurgitate the content that had just been written out in more detail.

Short answer is nobody will know until Friday

lmao