2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

skadden NYC possible with median grades, diverse (non AA) basically k-jd?

[Anonymous User]

skadden NYC possible with median grades, diverse (non AA) basically k-jd?

No. It's a wasted bid.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard if LR has finished making their calls? Looking at past years, they don't publicly release their list until August. Who knows when they actually let those waiting right on the cutoff whether that 3.7x was good enough or not? Also just nosily curious to see the list.

Former VLR member here

They let everyone know right away. They just wait on releasing publicy in case someone transfers out.

People 'right on the cutoff' have definitely been notified already, unless things have changed

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the feedback. Is it really often the case that students in that part of the class don't participate in the lottery at all (i.e. get over 23 pre-selects)?

I had a similar GPA after 1L year (just above a 3.8 ). I targeted exclusively DC, and had to turn down preselects. Given that you are targeting NYC, you will not participate in the lottery either.

[Anonymous User]

Are Shearman, Latham, Weil, Fried Frank, Sidley and Gibson (all NYC) worth bids at 3.4x (non-URM male; some WE)

[Anonymous User]

Are Shearman, Latham, Weil, Fried Frank, Sidley and Gibson (all NYC) worth bids at 3.4x (non-URM male; some WE)

Gibson might be a stretch (not really sure), but the rest are certainly worth bids.

[Yardbird]

Sent out my first few mass mail, and I'm quickly noticing that many firms don't accept email applications anymore and only accept through an online application. Makes things so much more difficult for us (while making it easier for them).

[playpowerball]

If i'm using a memo I wrote for work and need to redact the names of the parties, should I just include a sentence at the beginning of the file stating that I removed identifying information or should I attach a coversheet?

[Cavalier]

If i'm using a memo I wrote for work and need to redact the names of the parties, should I just include a sentence at the beginning of the file stating that I removed identifying information or should I attach a coversheet?

I'd do so in a coversheet. Overall I think a coversheet is a useful addition to a writing sample because it provides some context. Whatever you do, make sure you properly redact the names of parties and don't just highlight the names in black, enabling anyone to get the names via copy/paste. Writing samples rarely matter, but I've seen a potential associate get rejected in part because he failed to properly redact information about a confidential government investigation in his writing sample.

[Anonymous User]

I was wondering if anyone has info about the prospects of a candidate that doesn't work as a summer associate after 2L. For reference, my grades are about at the median, maybe a tick below or above. I took a year off between UG and law school, but nothing great as far as WE goes.

I am working in a US Attorney's Office this summer and really enjoy it. I plan to apply to some jobs at DOJ and another USAO for next summer in addition to doing OGI and mass mailing. The NALP pages I have looked at, however, seem to suggest that it is rare for a firm to hire an entry-level candidate who hadn't been a SA. Does working as something other than a SA really ding my odds of getting a firm job after graduation? Would I be similarly disadvantaged if I get a SA gig and want to work at a different firm and/or a differnt office of the same firm?

[Anonymous User]

So I'm a 3.8+ VLR guy with some work experience targeting DC. How much should I hedge on a couple of other markets? I have ties to one secondary market, but I have no interest in working there. Is it worth to throw a couple just in case and a couple to some NYC firms as well?

[hoorahray]

So I'm a 3.8+ VLR guy with some work experience targeting DC. How much should I hedge on a couple of other markets? I have ties to one secondary market, but I have no interest in working there. Is it worth to throw a couple just in case and a couple to some NYC firms as well?

As long as you are not an incompetent interviewer/creepy person, you will be fine targeting just DC. Maybe throw in a home market if you want, but if you don't want NYC, there isn't much reason to put them in "just because."

That being said, though, do practice mock interviewing. Even though you have work experience and presumably have successfully completed job interviews before, law students always overrate their own interviewing abilities. Take the 20 minutes out of your afternoon to give career services a call and do a mock interview.

[sundance95]

So I'm a 3.8+ VLR guy with some work experience targeting DC. How much should I hedge on a couple of other markets? I have ties to one secondary market, but I have no interest in working there. Is it worth to throw a couple just in case and a couple to some NYC firms as well?

Quit worrying. Bid firms and offices you would want to work at.

[Anonymous User]

Bidlist for critique. In the end, I felt like I was just grabbing random firms, so I want to make sure I've got a decent list. 3.59, 2 years paralegal experience, Looking to CA and DC + mass mailing a couple secondary markets that I have ties to. Want litigation. No interest in New York whatsoever. Let me know if I'm missing any firms that should be on here.

I put a lot more detail into my top ten given UVA's preselect model. Not expecting to get lottery interviews for anything ~15 on down.

1. GDC (DC)
2. Latham (DC)
3. Hogan (DC)
4. Ropes (SF)
5. Kirkland (SF)
6. Sidley Austin (DC)
7. Latham (SF)
8. GDC (LA)
9. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
10. Cooley (SF)
11. MoFo (DC)
12. Hogan (SF)
13. Jones Day (SF)
14. Baker Botts (DC)
15. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (SF)
16. Ropes & Gray (DC)
17. Paul Hastings (LA)
18. Paul Hastings (SF)
19.White & Case (DC)
20. Jones Day (LA)
21. Skadden (DC)
22. O’Melveny & Myers (LA)
23. Alston & Bird (LA)
24. Orrick (DC)
25. Vinson & Elkins (DC)
26. Covington & Burling (DC)
27. Cooley (Palo Alto)
28. hogan lovells (SF)
29. Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
30. [Secondary market]
31. Kirkland (DC)
32. Akin Gump (DC)
33. Alston & Bird (DC)
34. Goodwin Proctor (DC)
35. Mayer Brown (Palo Alto)
36. Jones Day (DC)
37. DLA Piper (DC)
38. Holland & Knight (DC)
39. Crowell & Moring (DC)
40. Baker Botts (PA)
41. Arnold & Porter (DC)
42. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (DC)
43. Winston & Strawn (DC)
44. Morgan Lewis & Bockius (SF)
45. Nixon Peabody (DC)
46. O’Melveny & Meyers (DC)
47. Jones Day (SV)
48. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (LA)
49. [Secondary Market]
50. Nelson Mullins DC

[sundance95]

I was also CA-focused/DC fallback. I'd be nervous about bidding multiple offices for so many firms--that can spook CA offices in particular. Plus, each doubling up is kind of a waste in that you are only going to get one bite at the apple at each firm, even if you bid multiple offices.

[Anonymous User]

I was also CA-focused/DC fallback. I'd be nervous about bidding multiple offices for so many firms--that can spook CA offices in particular. Plus, each doubling up is kind of a waste in that you are only going to get one bite at the apple at each firm, even if you bid multiple offices.

Same anon as above.

Good to know. I was worried about this too. Are there any firms off of the top of your head that I'm missing?

[Anonymous User]

For symplicity cover letters, use the contact information from NALP or the contact information in symplicity? I have the NALP addresses for the firms I'm bidding on but some of them on symplicity list the contact information for a different office.

Also, while I'm on the topic - a lot of firms don't seem to be requesting cover letters. Should we be sending CLs directly to the firm expressing an interest to interview at OGI? It seems like submitting only a Resume/Transcript turns a bit more into a numbers game than when submitting a Resume/CL/Transcript.

It is a numbers game. If they wanted a CL they would have asked for one.

Really happy for this answer, as I was not planning on making CLs for the firms that did not ask for one.

You would be better served sprucing up a writing sample. Nobody asks for a cover letter after the interview. The only time it would be useful is when they're deciding whether to fly you out, and waste partner time.

Speaking of cover letters, and sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do cover letters come into play for OGI? Do we attach them in simplicity, bring them to the interviews, or what?

[sundance95]

I was also CA-focused/DC fallback. I'd be nervous about bidding multiple offices for so many firms--that can spook CA offices in particular. Plus, each doubling up is kind of a waste in that you are only going to get one bite at the apple at each firm, even if you bid multiple offices.

Same anon as above.

Good to know. I was worried about this too. Are there any firms off of the top of your head that I'm missing?

Not off the top. I'd just remove the double bids and then fill in any firms from markets you're interested in.

[Anonymous User]

I was also CA-focused/DC fallback. I'd be nervous about bidding multiple offices for so many firms--that can spook CA offices in particular. Plus, each doubling up is kind of a waste in that you are only going to get one bite at the apple at each firm, even if you bid multiple offices.

Same anon as above.

Good to know. I was worried about this too. Are there any firms off of the top of your head that I'm missing?

Not off the top. I'd just remove the double bids and then fill in any firms from markets you're interested in.

Ok. I'll cull down the repeats, but if a firm allows multiple interviews, is it less risky to double up? It's hard to imagine that firms aren't aware that students are going to be looking at multiple markets.

[sundance95]

The firm might allow it, but I'd be concerned that CA office hiring partners will nevertheless prefer candidates that clearly want their market. This is particularly true in SF.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of cover letters, and sorry if this is a stupid question, but how do cover letters come into play for OGI? Do we attach them in simplicity, bring them to the interviews, or what?

Here is what it looks like in Symplicity on the bid page when a firm wants a cover letter: http://imgur.com/EvlpJuQ

You should bring copies of your resume, transcript, and writing sample to interviews. Of those, I only used the writing sample like twice and the others not at all, but it's better to have them and be overprepared rather than not have them. I didn't bring a cover letter to the interview.

[daleearnhardt123]

Bidlist for critique. In the end, I felt like I was just grabbing random firms, so I want to make sure I've got a decent list. 3.59, 2 years paralegal experience, Looking to CA and DC + mass mailing a couple secondary markets that I have ties to. Want litigation. No interest in New York whatsoever. Let me know if I'm missing any firms that should be on here.

I put a lot more detail into my top ten given UVA's preselect model. Not expecting to get lottery interviews for anything ~15 on down.

1. GDC (DC)
2. Latham (DC)
3. Hogan (DC)
4. Ropes (SF)
5. Kirkland (SF)
6. Sidley Austin (DC)
7. Latham (SF)
8. GDC (LA)
9. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
10. Cooley (SF)
11. MoFo (DC)
12. Hogan (SF)
13. Jones Day (SF)
14. Baker Botts (DC)
15. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (SF)
16. Ropes & Gray (DC)
17. Paul Hastings (LA)
18. Paul Hastings (SF)
19.White & Case (DC)
20. Jones Day (LA)
21. Skadden (DC)
22. O’Melveny & Myers (LA)
23. Alston & Bird (LA)
24. Orrick (DC)
25. Vinson & Elkins (DC)
26. Covington & Burling (DC)
27. Cooley (Palo Alto)
28. Hogan Lovells (SF)
29. Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
30. [Secondary market]
31. Kirkland (DC)
32. Akin Gump (DC)
33. Alston & Bird (DC)
34. Goodwin Proctor (DC)
35. Mayer Brown (Palo Alto)
36. Jones Day (DC)
37. DLA Piper (DC)
38. Holland & Knight (DC)
39. Crowell & Moring (DC)
40. Baker Botts (PA)
41. Arnold & Porter (DC)
42. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (DC)
43. Winston & Strawn (DC)
44. Morgan Lewis & Bockius (SF)
45. Nixon Peabody (DC)
46. O’Melveny & Meyers (DC)
47. Jones Day (SV)
48. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (LA)
49. [Secondary Market]
50. Nelson Mullins DC

In your non-lotto section remove: Covington, AP, Kirkland DC, as these are out of reach.

Your bid list has a lot of odd selections. baker PA? Huh? Also a lot of tiny offices of big firms. Such as STB DC, Kirkland SF... These firms are going to mostly want you to select an office of primary interest at screener stage. I'd hesitate to select these far smaller satellites as your #1 office.

[hoorahray]

Bidlist for critique. In the end, I felt like I was just grabbing random firms, so I want to make sure I've got a decent list. 3.59, 2 years paralegal experience, Looking to CA and DC + mass mailing a couple secondary markets that I have ties to. Want litigation. No interest in New York whatsoever. Let me know if I'm missing any firms that should be on here.

I put a lot more detail into my top ten given UVA's preselect model. Not expecting to get lottery interviews for anything ~15 on down.

1. GDC (DC)
2. Latham (DC)
3. Hogan (DC)
4. Ropes (SF)
5. Kirkland (SF)
6. Sidley Austin (DC)
7. Latham (SF)
8. GDC (LA)
9. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (Palo Alto)
10. Cooley (SF)
11. MoFo (DC)
12. Hogan (SF)
13. Jones Day (SF)
14. Baker Botts (DC)
15. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (SF)
16. Ropes & Gray (DC)
17. Paul Hastings (LA)
18. Paul Hastings (SF)
19.White & Case (DC)
20. Jones Day (LA)
21. Skadden (DC)
22. O’Melveny & Myers (LA)
23. Alston & Bird (LA)
24. Orrick (DC)
25. Vinson & Elkins (DC)
26. Covington & Burling (DC)
27. Cooley (Palo Alto)
28. Hogan Lovells (SF)
29. Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
30. [Secondary market]
31. Kirkland (DC)
32. Akin Gump (DC)
33. Alston & Bird (DC)
34. Goodwin Proctor (DC)
35. Mayer Brown (Palo Alto)
36. Jones Day (DC)
37. DLA Piper (DC)
38. Holland & Knight (DC)
39. Crowell & Moring (DC)
40. Baker Botts (PA)
41. Arnold & Porter (DC)
42. Simpson Thatcher & Bartlett (DC)
43. Winston & Strawn (DC)
44. Morgan Lewis & Bockius (SF)
45. Nixon Peabody (DC)
46. O’Melveny & Meyers (DC)
47. Jones Day (SV)
48. Knobbes Marten Olsen & Bear (LA)
49. [Secondary Market]
50. Nelson Mullins DC

I think you've gotten some good feedback from others, but maybe it's time to do some serious soul searching about which city in CA you want. I count 11 SF, 5 LA, 4 Palo. These cities are all quite different. Do you really have the info to convince an interviewer that you want to be in all these cities? Not saying that it isn't possible, but it might help you narrow things down a bit. It seems from your numbers what you really want is SF. If that is the case, cast a wider net within SF.

[ncc5]

For firms that require writing samples on the bids (rather than just a resume and transcript), does it matter if the sample we post now is different from what we walk into the room with? I'm currently working on something that will more than likely be my sample for a while, but it won't be done by the bidding deadline.

I'm planning on using a pretty terrible LRW sample for the bids and am trying to decide how much effort to put into polishing it since it will be used exclusively as a place holder on symplicity.

[daleearnhardt123]

For firms that require writing samples on the bids (rather than just a resume and transcript), does it matter if the sample we post now is different from what we walk into the room with? I'm currently working on something that will more than likely be my sample for a while, but it won't be done by the bidding deadline.

I'm planning on using a pretty terrible LRW sample for the bids and am trying to decide how much effort to put into polishing it since it will be used exclusively as a place holder on symplicity.

My understanding is that MOST of the firms that require writing samples use them at the post-screener stage. I.e. they're generally using them to determine if you should get a callback, not a preselect. Or, perhaps, using them for borderline candidates on determining offers post-callback. Accordingly, it would be fine if you updated your writing sample after the screener (generally you wouldn't just walk in with a new paper copy, you'd send an update to the HR person that was at your school).

However, this may not hold for all firms. You should run this hypothesis by Kevin Donovan and see if he agrees. I think it's probably true for most.