No-offered summer associate. FML Forum

[3ThrowAway99]

a fake memo? WTF?

They assigned a fake memo to all summers globally to "teach" how to write a legal memo. We were supposed to get good feedback from good writers at the firm. I didn't get feedback until week 6.

They told them the memo was fake from the beginning, right?

Yea. It was like a LRW assignment. They even gave us teh cases.

so glad i'm not in biglaw. I'd rather off myself than work in a corporate setting. I'm starting my own fucking firm.

[romothesavior]

TBF, I did feel pretty vindicated re: GermX. They're keeping the coals extra hot for me in hell.

[stratocophic]

.

[reformed calvinist]

Ah, here we go again! It's gonna be an absolute bloodbath as the inefficient, creaking machinery of these paper-churning mills slowly grinds to a halt as the global economy crashes and burns. Do you really think the Euro Zone crisis is solved? Think things are so rosy here in the USA that companies are going to expand and pay know-nothing 25 year olds 160 K to write idiotic memos on legalese nonsense?

You guys ignored all the scambloggers and the JDU crowd, and now are paying the price. Guess you thought all those horror stories were a laugh, right? That none of it applied to you?

[reformed calvinist]

so glad i'm not in biglaw. I'd rather off myself than work in a corporate setting. I'm starting my own fucking firm.

You interested in NY area? Let's do it

[Anonymous User]

Ah, here we go again! It's gonna be an absolute bloodbath as the inefficient, creaking machinery of these paper-churning mills slowly grinds to a halt as the global economy crashes and burns. Do you really think the Euro Zone crisis is solved? Think things are so rosy here in the USA that companies are going to expand and pay know-nothing 25 year olds 160 K to write idiotic memos on legalese nonsense?

You guys ignored all the scambloggers and the JDU crowd, and now are paying the price. Guess you thought all those horror stories were a laugh, right? That none of it applied to you?

areyouinsane?

[Aqualibrium]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

[reformed calvinist]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

That describes just about every white collar/non-union job these days. God bless America

[IAFG]

Ah, here we go again! It's gonna be an absolute bloodbath as the inefficient, creaking machinery of these paper-churning mills slowly grinds to a halt as the global economy crashes and burns. Do you really think the Euro Zone crisis is solved? Think things are so rosy here in the USA that companies are going to expand and pay know-nothing 25 year olds 160 K to write idiotic memos on legalese nonsense?

You guys ignored all the scambloggers and the JDU crowd, and now are paying the price. Guess you thought all those horror stories were a laugh, right? That none of it applied to you?

lololol, so you go to a thread where people are lamenting a certain (rare) bad outcome, then smugly tell them off for daring to hope they might avoid rare bad outcome? Why don't you find a support group for parents of teens killed in car accidents and explain how dumb they were for letting their kids drive.

[3ThrowAway99]

so glad i'm not in biglaw. I'd rather off myself than work in a corporate setting. I'm starting my own fucking firm.

You interested in NY area? Let's do it

yea dude, pm number if srs and if at least T20 school

[Anonymous User]

So lying about getting an offer? PH No-offer here. I've been kicking ass in 3L OCI but I have told everyone until now that I haven't heard back yet.

[romothesavior]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

I'll tell you why: because sadsituation has lumped every single person in here together, acting as if we all ignored the warnings and went in blindly, and is essentially rooting against us as if we're a bunch of bummed out 3Ls at Golden Gate U who thumbed our noses at the JDUers. That could not be further from the truth. Most of the people ITT carefully weighed their options, assessed the risks, and made choices that were pretty good given the facts and circumstances. At the T14 right now, the recovery has gotten to a point where most people are landing SA jobs. Other folks in here took big scholarships to solid regional schools, guarding against hte possibility that they missed biglaw. The terrible economy and the lessons of the last few classes have weighed on our minds throughout the entire process, from our application cycle, to 1L year grades, to OCI, to our SA experiences. Who in here "ignored the scambloggers and the JDU crowd?" I think that for the most part, the TLS c/o 2013 and 2014 is the most cautious, informed, and aware group of law students ever.

Right now, no-offers have been fairly rare, and he's acting like we're all drowning in them. I get that he thinks that a new wave of rescinded offers awaits us, but there is no evidence that is the case. I know my firm brought on all of their 2008 SAs on time in 2009, and there is absolutely zero evidence that they intend to screw my class this time. So yes, while it is certainly possible I (or others) could be handed a pink slip between now and this time next year, or even right after we start, I'm not going to lay awake at night terrified of it. For him to be rooting against all of us so he can feel justified is just sad. This thread is supposed to be about helping those who received a no-offer.

[PNGJW]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

It's not that i disagree with any of the "meat" of this, but in my opinion doing your due diligence about making the poor choice to go to law school relates entirely more to actually getting an SA at a big firm. While I understand this also applies to permanent offers, I don't think it has nearly as much force. Firms typically do forecast their needs, and while this number may change I doubt it changes too drastically most of the time. If this means ITE you can never be confident, agreed. But, i still think it is shitty when the firm sells you on accepting their SA offer because they typically have a 100% offer rate and getting an SA offer basically means getting a permanent job offer, then doles out a bunch of no-offers for no good reasons.

[GeePee]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

I'll tell you why: because sadsituation has lumped every single person in here together, acting as if we all ignored the warnings and went in blindly, and is essentially rooting against us as if we're a bunch of bummed out 3Ls at Golden Gate U who thumbed our noses at the JDUers. That could not be further from the truth. Most of the people ITT carefully weighed their options, assessed the risks, and made choices that were pretty good given the facts and circumstances. At the T14 right now, the recovery has gotten to a point where most people are landing SA jobs. Other folks in here took big scholarships to solid regional schools, guarding against hte possibility that they missed biglaw. The terrible economy and the lessons of the last few classes have weighed on our minds throughout the entire process, from our application cycle, to 1L year grades, to OCI, to our SA experiences. Who in here "ignored the scambloggers and the JDU crowd?" I think that for the most part, the TLS c/o 2013 and 2014 is the most cautious, informed, and aware group of law students ever.

Right now, no-offers have been fairly rare, and he's acting like we're all drowning in them. I get that he thinks that a new wave of rescinded offers awaits us, but there is no evidence that is the case. I know my firm brought on all of their 2008 SAs on time in 2009, and there is absolutely zero evidence that they intend to screw my class this time. So yes, while it is certainly possible I (or others) could be handed a pink slip between now and this time next year, or even right after we start, I'm not going to lay awake at night terrified of it. For him to be rooting against all of us so he can feel justified is just sad. This thread is supposed to be about helping those who received a no-offer.

I wish we had a like button for posts. I was about to say more or less the same thing.

[BruceWayne]

I'll tell you why: because sadsituation has lumped every single person in here together, acting as if we all ignored the warnings and went in blindly, and is essentially rooting against us as if we're a bunch of bummed out 3Ls at Golden Gate U who thumbed our noses at the JDUers. That could not be further from the truth. Most of the people ITT carefully weighed their options, assessed the risks, and made choices that were pretty good given the facts and circumstances. At the T14 right now, the recovery has gotten to a point where most people are landing SA jobs. Other folks in here took big scholarships to solid regional schools, guarding against hte possibility that they missed biglaw. The terrible economy and the lessons of the last few classes have weighed on our minds throughout the entire process, from our application cycle, to 1L year grades, to OCI, to our SA experiences. Who in here "ignored the scambloggers and the JDU crowd?" I think that for the most part, the TLS c/o 2013 and 2014 is the most cautious, informed, and aware group of law students ever. Right now, no-offers have been fairly rare, and he's acting like we're all drowning in them. I get that he thinks that a new wave of rescinded offers awaits us, but there is no evidence that is the case. I know my firm brought on all of their 2008 SAs on time in 2009, and there is absolutely zero evidence that they intend to screw my class this time. So yes, while it is certainly possible I (or others) could be handed a pink slip between now and this time next year, or even right after we start, I'm not going to lay awake at night terrified of it. For him to be rooting against all of us so he can feel justified is just sad. This thread is supposed to be about helping those who received a no-offer.

PLEASE stop posting this king of TLS hearsay garbage--because it's NOT TRUE and it helps to convince people to make very bad decisions.

[IAFG]

PLEASE stop posting this king of TLS hearsay garbage--because it's NOT TRUE and it helps to convince people to make very bad decisions.

I can say with confidence MOST people in my section got an SA at a market-paying firm.

[$$$$$$]

PLEASE stop posting this king of TLS hearsay garbage--because it's NOT TRUE and it helps to convince people to make very bad decisions.

I can say with confidence MOST people in my section got an SA at a market-paying firm.

I can say with confidence that I KNOW kids in the top 20% at T-10's that didnt get any firm offers. Shit isnt that great, but its better than it was a few years ago. If anything its going to get much, much worse in the coming months (i.e. the entire eurozone is fucked beyond belief)

[IAFG]

PLEASE stop posting this king of TLS hearsay garbage--because it's NOT TRUE and it helps to convince people to make very bad decisions.

I can say with confidence MOST people in my section got an SA at a market-paying firm.

I can say with confidence that I KNOW kids in the top 20% at T-10's that didnt get any firm offers. Shit isnt that great, but its better than it was a few years ago. If anything its going to get much, much worse in the coming months (i.e. the entire eurozone is fucked beyond belief)

I know people in the top 10% who got pwnd too. I don't think that's a sign of a weak hiring market, when most people got something.

[somewhatwayward]

Paul Hastings LA posted an opening for a corporate associate on symplicity, so they no-offered and are now looking for a new associate

[w2e]

There have been a lot of rumors about Paul Hastings in the last six months or so. I know it's probably of little consolation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the next firm to go the direction Greenberg Traurig appears to be heading now.

What direction might that be? I don't know a ton about GT.

I haven't heard anything about major issues at GT and I do know a bit about them. Checked to see if there was anything on ATL today and came up with nothing.

The GT capital call was big news in the legal community. Don't see how anyone could have missed it. Sign up for American Lawyer updates. Anyone who summered there should be doing 3L OCI.

[Anonymous User]

No idea what PH is doing (giving fake assignments is a massive red flag), but I will say that at my firms (one V30, the other V75, both in Texas) the two people who didn't get offers were people who did fairly outrageous stuff. Like the girl who outed herself as an anti-corporate occutard who, without realizing the irony, wanted to practice in corporate finance. Another girl got blitzed out of her mind at a partner heavy event.

Just to provide reassurance to people who may be reading this thread and freaking out: I think that most people at my school (UT) have done pretty well or at least met expectations. It is probably a product of how good the economy is in Houston, Dallas, and Austin right now, but I have close friends at around the 25th percentile of grades who have biglaw jobs in Texas. Most people in top 1/3 or so that wanted NY got it, and no one I know was no-offered at those firms. They may be the exception, but I know plenty of people in the bottom half who got jobs in midlaw firms across the Texas and the Southwest. Most of my friends who are jobless are the people who are dedicated to public interest or government work, which I don't think generally hand out offers a year in advance anyway.

Obviously, your mileage may vary, but things are not that bad right now. As long as you go into OCI and LS generally with open eyes, and are willing to live somewhere other than DC, SF, or NY (depending on where you go to school) you can probably do okay.

[Anonymous User]

The PH firmwide fake memo thing has been going on for years.

[BruceWayne]

No idea what PH is doing (giving fake assignments is a massive red flag), but I will say that at my firms (one V30, the other V75, both in Texas) the two people who didn't get offers were people who did fairly outrageous stuff. Like the girl who outed herself as an anti-corporate occutard who, without realizing the irony, wanted to practice in corporate finance. Another girl got blitzed out of her mind at a partner heavy event.

Just to provide reassurance to people who may be reading this thread and freaking out: I think that most people at my school (UT) have done pretty well or at least met expectations. It is probably a product of how good the economy is in Houston, Dallas, and Austin right now, but I have close friends at around the 25th percentile of grades who have biglaw jobs in Texas. Most people in top 1/3 or so that wanted NY got it, and no one I know was no-offered at those firms. They may be the exception, but I know plenty of people in the bottom half who got jobs in midlaw firms across the Texas and the Southwest. Most of my friends who are jobless are the people who are dedicated to public interest or government work, which I don't think generally hand out offers a year in advance anyway.

Obviously, your mileage may vary, but things are not that bad right now. As long as you go into OCI and LS generally with open eyes, and are willing to live somewhere other than DC, SF, or NY (depending on where you go to school) you can probably do okay.

Texas is a different story. There economy is just in another world from the rest of the country. I'm going to take a lot of heat for this but I'm going to say it anyway. In this economy UT is a better school than about half of the top 14. Getting a job is about more than a school's nationwide reputation and prestige. Because of the Texas job economy, the way that Texas treats UT, and the way that they treat people with no ties to the state that don't attend a Texas school, and the COL in Texas, UT is better than some of the top 14.

[BaiAilian2013]

Funny that you guys discredit/disregard sadsituation. Honestly, what he said is pretty much spot on. From what I've seen as a law student, as someone who is working at a large firm, and as someone with some common sense, the class of 2013 and beyond is going to be in a pretty sad state...large firm practice as we know it is changing big time and a lot of firms are trying to put on a happy face for the outside world while those gears of change continue to grind internally.

I get that this thread probably isn't the place for someone to speak in such a unfeeling, I told you so tone of voice, but that doesn't make the meat of the statement any less true. I'll put it this way, I actually have a job and every day I still worry/approach it as an opportunity to learn how to do things right and what not to do when I'm out on my own because im not at all counting on being insulated from the outside world by my cushy 16th floor office. I fully expect to see more no offers, more kids with top grades willing to work for peanuts, and more people from good schools with good grades applying for temporary legal work.

P.S. Even when you make it in the door as an associate, the firm can generally terminate you at will, and even making partner might not be enough to insulate you from the "fat trimming."

I'll tell you why: because sadsituation has lumped every single person in here together, acting as if we all ignored the warnings and went in blindly, and is essentially rooting against us as if we're a bunch of bummed out 3Ls at Golden Gate U who thumbed our noses at the JDUers. That could not be further from the truth. Most of the people ITT carefully weighed their options, assessed the risks, and made choices that were pretty good given the facts and circumstances. At the T14 right now, the recovery has gotten to a point where most people are landing SA jobs. Other folks in here took big scholarships to solid regional schools, guarding against hte possibility that they missed biglaw. The terrible economy and the lessons of the last few classes have weighed on our minds throughout the entire process, from our application cycle, to 1L year grades, to OCI, to our SA experiences. Who in here "ignored the scambloggers and the JDU crowd?" I think that for the most part, the TLS c/o 2013 and 2014 is the most cautious, informed, and aware group of law students ever.

Right now, no-offers have been fairly rare, and he's acting like we're all drowning in them. I get that he thinks that a new wave of rescinded offers awaits us, but there is no evidence that is the case. I know my firm brought on all of their 2008 SAs on time in 2009, and there is absolutely zero evidence that they intend to screw my class this time. So yes, while it is certainly possible I (or others) could be handed a pink slip between now and this time next year, or even right after we start, I'm not going to lay awake at night terrified of it. For him to be rooting against all of us so he can feel justified is just sad. This thread is supposed to be about helping those who received a no-offer.

I wish we had a like button for posts. I was about to say more or less the same thing.

Agreed. I also think sadsituation's assertion that associates write "legalese nonsense" speaks volumes.

[romothesavior]

PLEASE stop posting this king of TLS hearsay garbage--because it's NOT TRUE and it helps to convince people to make very bad decisions.

I can say with confidence MOST people in my section got an SA at a market-paying firm.

I can say with confidence that I KNOW kids in the top 20% at T-10's that didnt get any firm offers. Shit isnt that great, but its better than it was a few years ago. If anything its going to get much, much worse in the coming months (i.e. the entire eurozone is fucked beyond belief)

I know people in the top 10% who got pwnd too. I don't think that's a sign of a weak hiring market, when most people got something.

Yeah seriously. If you are at a T14 in the top 10-20% and couldn't land an SA, that's on you. A few anecdotes about people in the top of the class striking out at OCI is hardly an indication of the legal hiring market as it currently stands. No one is saying it is rosy, and it is still particularly rough outside of the top schools, but everyone I've spoken with at T14s has given the indication that it was better this year.

Also, BruceWayne, I'm not just basing this on TLS hearsay garbage. And LOL if you think I spend my time on TLS trying to encourage people to make bad decisions re: law school.