NY Associates: Where to live? Forum

[Wholigan]

If you think the projects in Manhattan are remotely similar to Gowanus Houses or a couple of the other seedy Brooklyn projects, then you're way off base.

There's this:
--LinkRemoved--

And this:
http://carrollgardens.patch.com/article ... n-homicide

Those are in a little more than a month span.


Oh yeah - no danger at all for a drunk white dude stumbling his way alone at 3AM. I'm surprised I didn't get invited in for tea.

Not saying it's a good idea to wander through drunk at 3:00 AM, but one of the articles you posted involved a domestic dispute, and the other guy was involved with buying or selling drugs, which the poster you responded to already addressed. Not the best examples to back up your close call tale.

[imchuckbass58]

If you think the projects in Manhattan are remotely similar to Gowanus Houses or a couple of the other seedy Brooklyn projects, then you're way off base.

There's this:
--LinkRemoved--

And this:
http://carrollgardens.patch.com/article ... n-homicide

Those are in a little more than a month span.

Oh yeah - no danger at all for a drunk white dude stumbling his way alone at 3AM. I'm surprised I didn't get invited in for tea.

First off, projects in Manhattan are no different. Take the Frederick Douglas Houses, which are just north of the Upper West Side and just south of Columbia:
-http://www.dnainfo.com/20110317/upper-w ... ass-houses
-http://ec2-174-129-17-40.compute-1.amaz ... ses-locals
-http://www.dnainfo.com/20110106//man-sh ... ights-deli
-http://westsidespirit.com/2009/12/18/tr ... west-side/

Second, you managed to pick one of the three murders that have taken place in the entire 76th precinct this year
-http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/ ... 076pct.pdf

Listen, it's New York. It's a big city. People get shot from time to time. Generally, it's people who are involved in a domestic dispute, or who are dealing drugs. If you're not doing these things, you're probably fine. I've lived here for 20 years (including in some of the "marginal" neighborhoods you're talking about), and have never had a problem (knock on wood). I can count literally on one hand the number of people I know who have been the victim of a crime (excluding stuff like having your bike stolen).

What you should remember is that New York is statistically MUCH safer than most other major cities. There are just certain areas that look tougher, but I guarantee they're safer than nicer-looking areas of LA or San Francisco.

Edit: It's remarkable how much safer New York is than other cities: http://en.mercopress.com/2009/06/04/new ... ing-to-fbi

[quakeroats]

Take a look at this: http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

If you go to 2010 and sort by ethnicity of the murder victim, you'll find that 66% are Black, 24% Hispanic, and 6% are White. If you looked at the homicide rates per 100k, you'd find that Manhattan has a higher rate than Queens and Staten Island. If you look at the individual murders, you'll find that 3 White males (and 0 White females) were killed by Black or Hispanic perpetrators in Manhattan in 2010. Only 1 White male was killed in 2010 in the places you'd consider living in Queens. You're not in any kind of real danger. No one's looking for upper-class White lawyers that are scared of what passes for seedy areas of New York City.

[Ty Webb]

The point of my post was pretty simple. It's that if you're considering the outer-burroughs (especially Brooklyn), you shouldn't be blind-renting from Craigslist. The reason was noted. That reason is that Brooklyn's nicest neighborhoods bump directly against places where you DON'T WANT TO LIVE. So it's very easy to get "duped" into living in a place in Buerum Hill that is really a spit's length away from the actual ghetto. Queens is a little different, in that its livable areas (the ones closest to Manhattan) have some separation from places like Jamaica.

I got a laugh out of the guy who plucked a housing project that's basically in Harlem as a representation of Manhattan housing projects. Harlem during the day is actually pretty awesome, though (an irrelevant observation).

[Ty Webb]

Added: This article supports what I'm talking about in regard to some parts of Brooklyn. Talk to anyone who is familiar with the downtown area, and they'll tell you that Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens are two of the nicest places in the city to live. I find Smith Street to be my favorite stretch of "fun" in all of New York. BUT, anyone considering these areas has to recognize that Brooklyn is not Manhattan, and like many areas in the outer Burroughs, it is not "gentrified" completely. The transitional nature of BKLYN means there is some spillover, and you should plan your housing search accordingly if you are interested.

http://southbrooklynpost.com/news-views ... l-gardens/

[imchuckbass58]

The point of my post was pretty simple. It's that if you're considering the outer-burroughs (especially Brooklyn), you shouldn't be blind-renting from Craigslist. The reason was noted. That reason is that Brooklyn's nicest neighborhoods bump directly against places where you DON'T WANT TO LIVE. So it's very easy to get "duped" into living in a place in Buerum Hill that is really a spit's length away from the actual ghetto. Queens is a little different, in that its livable areas (the ones closest to Manhattan) have some separation from places like Jamaica.

I got a laugh out of the guy who plucked a housing project that's basically in Harlem as a representation of Manhattan housing projects. Harlem during the day is actually pretty awesome, though (an irrelevant observation).

Yes, we understand what you're saying, and while this is a concern, our point is you're wrong that this is a concern that is unique to Brooklyn.

First of all, the place I pointed out is between Central Park West and Amsterdam between 100th and 104th. That is not "Harlem." Most people would consider it part of the Upper West Side, or alternatively Morningside Heights. Harlem is north of Central park, east of Morningside park. The Frederick Douglas houses are sandwiched between two desirable neighborhoods (UWS and morningside heights). They're literally 10 blocks from one of the most expensive apartment buildings in the city.

Second, regardless, Harlem (and other associate areas) are immediately north of some of the most expensive and desirable neighborhoods in the city (i.e., the UES and UWS, particularly near the park). You can say the same thing about certain areas of the Lower East Side (which are right next to the Alfred E. Smith houses and the Baruch houses, which are literally the largest projects in the city). So to the degree your point is that nice areas butt up against bad areas in Brooklyn, the same is true of Manhattan. There are parts of every borough that are "up and coming," and they are often right next to quite nice areas.

Listen, do whatever you want, but don't make sweeping (and misleading) characterizations about the city just because you went stumbling around at 3am, and happened to be in Brooklyn when you did so.

[dixiecupdrinking]

FWIW, 100th and Amsterdam is hardly a bad neighborhood these days, and it's really a stretch to call it Harlem.

Your point is taken, TW, in so far as there are a lot of housing projects near a number of trendy Brooklyn neighborhoods, mainly Boerum Hill, DUMBO, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, and Williamsburg. I just think it's an almost complete non-issue, speaking as someone who has lived within a couple of blocks from a couple of these projects. It's also not really evidence of those neighborhoods not being "completely gentrified," for better or worse; the projects aren't going anywhere no matter how pricey all the surrounding real estate gets. But sure, if you don't want to live near a housing project, make sure the apartment you rent isn't near a housing project. That goes for Manhattan, too, especially if you're seeing places advertised in the East Village or Lower East Side that're on Avenue D or by the Williamsburg Bridge.

Edit: Right, what imchuckbass said.

[Renzo]

Right, what imchuckbass said.

Yep.

[Anonymous User]

lol I live next to a project in bk, in a not-nice area (not a neighborhood that has been suggested ITT yet). It's fine. People are generally friendly and I don't feel unsafe walking home alone late at night, though the area smells a lot like weed on a regular basis. The sidewalks are less clean and it can be frustrating to get somewhere if my express train isn't running, but generally it's a quick and easy commute to manhattan. My apartment is soo cheap, and huge. I love it. But I guess I'm capable of minding my own business and not being terrified of the sight of projects/black people so...

[nealric]

The word Gowanus being mentioned in this thread made my skin crawl.

During the last week of my summer, I was walking from Smith Street back to my hotel on the outer-bound of Park Slope (Union/5th). I took a wrong turn, by myself, at 3AM, and walked right through the middle of Gowanus Houses (a fairly notorious housing project in the area). I was drunk and in an obnoxiously colored shirt. I came to find out the next morning that I walked through the heart of another seedy project, too. It wasn't until then, when I Googled "Gowanus Houses," that I found out just what happens at places like this.

Not quite walking through Bed-Stuy alone, but it might as well has been.

This story does highlight something that outsiders need to know about the outer burroughs. While almost all of Manhattan is safe from a crime perspective, Brooklyn and Queens can be very dangerous in spots. Brooklyn is a transitional area where million-dollar brownstones bump up against legitimate projects. I lived in downtown and never felt unsafe, even walking at night. But if you take a couple of wrong turns, you can find yourself in a place that your mom wouldn't want to hear about.

If you're shopping the outer burroughs, it's always best to do some serious homework on the area.

I had to lol at this one. I lived in the heart of Bed-Stuy when I was a summer associate and walked home from the subway past midnight many times. Not once was I ever bothered in the least. There was even a documentary about the project behind the place where I was staying. The thing is, if you are not involved in drugs or gangs and don't know anybody who is, the chances of being a crime victim are pretty low even in a bad area. Overall, the neighborhood was quite friendly.

As far as shopping: Just do your homework. Understand that real estate agents will always say that an apartment in a marginal area is in a prime neighborhood. You don't need to be a local to figure out that Park Slope ends at 4th ave (no matter what that real estate listing says) or that Prospect Heights ends at Washinigton ave, not Bedford Ave. Use Google street view, and walk around the area before you sign a lease.

[goodolgil]

A good general rule of thumb for searching NYC neighborhoods on Craiglist is: If you want Prospect Heights, search for Park Slope. If you want Park Slope, search for Manhattan. If you want Manhattan, search for Paris.

[Anonymous User]

I'll be working in midtown east and living in the upper east side, and I'm wondering if buses like the 15 or the 102 are possibly a better choice than the subway? I know traffic sucks in New York, but if I am going from something like 90th street to 50th would it be a reasonable commute? Should I worry about the buses being full during rush hour?

[dixiecupdrinking]

A good general rule of thumb for searching NYC neighborhoods on Craiglist is: If you want Prospect Heights, search for Park Slope. If you want Park Slope, search for Manhattan. If you want Manhattan, search for Paris.

+1

If you want Bushwick or Crown Heights, sorry bro, they don't exist anymore.

[imchuckbass58]

I'll be working in midtown east and living in the upper east side, and I'm wondering if buses like the 15 or the 102 are possibly a better choice than the subway? I know traffic sucks in New York, but if I am going from something like 90th street to 50th would it be a reasonable commute? Should I worry about the buses being full during rush hour?

Buses are never a better choice than the subway unless there is no subway. If you're going from 90th to 50th, take the 6 from 86th to 51st.

The concern with buses isn't so much that they're full (though they often are), it's that because of traffic you could be stuck in traffic for absurd amounts of time. The M15 is different, but the non-select-bus routes are also slow because you have to wait for 20 old ladies to fumble through their purses to get their metrocards before the bus can leave.

[nealric]

If you want Bushwick or Crown Heights, sorry bro, they don't exist anymore.

Easily 80% of the craiglist apartments listed as "Prospect Heights" are in Crown Heights. The apartments listed as Crown Heights are in Brownsville. Nobody advertises apartments as being in Brownsville.

[Anonymous User]

For someone working in the Financial District, where is the best place to live both this summer and long-term? I'd like to be able to walk to work or be a short commute away via the subway.

[blsingindisguise]

For someone working in the Financial District, where is the best place to live both this summer and long-term? I'd like to be able to walk to work or be a short commute away via the subway.

Price range? Willing to live with roommates?

You could live in the financial district -- it's sort of reasonably priced but a little boring. It is surrounded by water on three sides which is sort of nice. The "Downtown Brooklyn" area which I guess includes Dumbo, BK Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Fort Greene and the nebulous "downtown" area is an easy commute if you live on the 2/3 and/or 5/6 lines. Actually the R works too, and so does the A/C. A lot of trains run to the Financial District. Parts of Lower East Side are more or less walkable to financial district.

[Anonymous User]

I'm looking for summer housing (preference for no roommates) but as cheap as possible without compromising safety. I'm not from the area so I don't know what's reasonable to expect. I'll also be working in midtown near Grand Central. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

[paratactical]

.

[Anonymous User]

Do you know if firms ever have late-night events that might make it difficult to get back to Queens? I've heard Queens is an attractive place to be in terms of price, but I've also heard the subway lines there aren't as reliable, but that could be completely wrong.

[imchuckbass58]

Do you know if firms ever have late-night events that might make it difficult to get back to Queens? I've heard Queens is an attractive place to be in terms of price, but I've also heard the subway lines there aren't as reliable, but that could be completely wrong.

The subway lines are fine but in any case your firm will reimburse you for a cab back (or call a car for you) if you are either working late or at a firm event that runs late.

[imchuckbass58]

For someone working in the Financial District, where is the best place to live both this summer and long-term? I'd like to be able to walk to work or be a short commute away via the subway.

You can essentially live three places:

East/West Village/Union Square: Very exciting, lots of young people, nightlife, and good restaurants. Very expensive (east village somewhat less so). 10-15 minutes by subway.

Tribeca/Financial District: You can walk to work and housing is moderately priced, but there's absolutely nothing to do, particularly on weekends. You can count the number of fun bars/restaurants on one hand, and many of the restaurants close on weekends. To have fun (no matter what your idea of fun is) you'll have to go somewhere else.

Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill: Very idyllic/neighborhoody - few if any high-rises, tree lined streets, etc. Not as hopping in terms of food and nightlife as the village, but it's enough to keep you happy if you don't feel like traveling. Moderately expensive (similar to financial district, less expensive than the village). About a 10 minute subway ride.

As for some other options:
-Fort Greene is essentially the same as Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill, but slightly less convenient in terms of subways, and more "up and coming" (it used to be downright dangerous 10 years ago), so it's correspondingly cheaper.
-Park Slope is a lot like Brooklyn Heights, but has slightly more nightlife and is slightly cheaper. It's another 10 minutes on the subway though.
-Downtown Brooklyn is like the financial district insofar as there is nothing to do there and it's deserted on weekends, but it's slightly cheaper. Also about a 10 minute subway ride.

[Big Shrimpin]

Do you know if firms ever have late-night events that might make it difficult to get back to Queens? I've heard Queens is an attractive place to be in terms of price, but I've also heard the subway lines there aren't as reliable, but that could be completely wrong.

The subway lines are fine but in any case your firm will reimburse you for a cab back (or call a car for you) if you are either working late or at a firm event that runs late.

Firm should order/pay for car. nbd

[goodolgil]

Do you know if firms ever have late-night events that might make it difficult to get back to Queens? I've heard Queens is an attractive place to be in terms of price, but I've also heard the subway lines there aren't as reliable, but that could be completely wrong.

The 7 train is the most reliable train line I've ever lived off. I can't count the amount of times I waited less than 5 minutes or less for a train to come at like 4:30 in the morning. Also, I never remember it taking more than 20 minutes to come (all trains are supposed to come every 20 minutes afterhours) late night, and it was almost always 10 minutes or less.

On that note:

Trains I recommend living off: 7, Q, D, A, L (with some reservations, but it comes very fast).

Lines to avoid: G (king of 45 minute waits late at night), F, 2/3, R, 4,

Results will vary depending on where on the respective lines you live.

[Anonymous User]

For someone working in the Financial District, where is the best place to live both this summer and long-term? I'd like to be able to walk to work or be a short commute away via the subway.

You can essentially live three places:

East/West Village/Union Square: Very exciting, lots of young people, nightlife, and good restaurants. Very expensive (east village somewhat less so). 10-15 minutes by subway.

Tribeca/Financial District: You can walk to work and housing is moderately priced, but there's absolutely nothing to do, particularly on weekends. You can count the number of fun bars/restaurants on one hand, and many of the restaurants close on weekends. To have fun (no matter what your idea of fun is) you'll have to go somewhere else.

Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill: Very idyllic/neighborhoody - few if any high-rises, tree lined streets, etc. Not as hopping in terms of food and nightlife as the village, but it's enough to keep you happy if you don't feel like traveling. Moderately expensive (similar to financial district, less expensive than the village). About a 10 minute subway ride.

As for some other options:
-Fort Greene is essentially the same as Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill, but slightly less convenient in terms of subways, and more "up and coming" (it used to be downright dangerous 10 years ago), so it's correspondingly cheaper.
-Park Slope is a lot like Brooklyn Heights, but has slightly more nightlife and is slightly cheaper. It's another 10 minutes on the subway though.
-Downtown Brooklyn is like the financial district insofar as there is nothing to do there and it's deserted on weekends, but it's slightly cheaper. Also about a 10 minute subway ride.

Hoboken and Downtown Jersey City are also options if you're working in the Financial District. Hoboken has an extremely active nightlife (most bars per capita in the country, I believe) and is very young, hip and safe. Downtown JC is a little bit different; it's more recently gentrified and has a lot of South Asian immigrants (consequently has a somewhat different feel, many more families) but is still a very good option and is cheaper than Hoboken. JC also has waterfront high-rises that Hoboken does not have. Both are cheaper than any of your Manhattan options, and not more expensive than Brooklyn. Also, if you live in NJ, you don't pay NYC income taxes (which is usually the big draw for a lot of people).

Hoboken is about a 15 minute PATH (Port Authority Trans-Hudson Railroad, basically another subway system) ride to the World Trade Center, while Jersey City to the WTC is only about 5 minutes from Exchange Place, 10 from Newport or Grove Street. All the Financial District offices are walkable from the WTC PATH station (Cleary and Cadwalader are right across the street). Note that after 11 pm and on weekends you'd have to change trains to get from the WTC to Hoboken (but trains to JC run at all times).