Firms to avoid Forum

[Anonymous User]

Where is the information about Orrick's financial health coming from? Is there anything you can point to that supports that they aren't doing well?

Columbia career services told us that they slashed a bunch of interview slots from last year's OCI to this year's.

They pulled out of OCI at NU entirely.

Were you warned off of them by your career services/told this is a red flag?

[Anonymous User]

Where is the information about Orrick's financial health coming from? Is there anything you can point to that supports that they aren't doing well?

Columbia career services told us that they slashed a bunch of interview slots from last year's OCI to this year's.

They pulled out of OCI at NU entirely.

Were you warned off of them by your career services/told this is a red flag?

At CLS, they gently suggested that comparable firms would be a better use of a bid.

[imchuckbass58]

Where is the information about Orrick's financial health coming from? Is there anything you can point to that supports that they aren't doing well?

Columbia career services told us that they slashed a bunch of interview slots from last year's OCI to this year's.

I'd also point they stopped publishing financial metrics after several years of declines.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Paul Hastings Chicago? It's a pretty small new office which I assume comes with risks and benefits.

[Anonymous User]

Where is the information about Orrick's financial health coming from? Is there anything you can point to that supports that they aren't doing well?

Columbia career services told us that they slashed a bunch of interview slots from last year's OCI to this year's.

I'd also point they stopped publishing financial metrics after several years of declines.

They decreased the size of their DC summer class this year to 2-4 people. And I hear there are 2010 grads who are still deferred & haven't started.

[Anonymous User]

Cadwalader definitely won the prize for least pleasant CB. You'd think they'd at least make an effort to play against the stereotype at that stage in the game. Really nice offices though.[/quote]

What was unpleasant about the CB, if you don't mind me asking? I have one coming up so wanted to know what to expect.[/quote]
Yeah I'm wondering this as well. I already had my CB and there wasn't anything unpleasant about it. It wasn't the greatest thing ever, but I'd hardly say it wasn't pleasant.[/quote]

I had a pleasant CB w/ Caddy last week, FWIW. While I was fairly impressed with the partners I met there, the associates left something to be desired.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have insight on Paul Hastings Chicago? It's a pretty small new office which I assume comes with risks and benefits.

It's not a main office by any means, but it still pays market and represent's PH's only office not on a coast, so they're not going to be closing it anytime soon. If you like the people and the work that they do, I wouldn't worry about accepting an offer there.

[Grizz]

Anyone have insight on Paul Hastings Chicago? It's a pretty small new office which I assume comes with risks and benefits.

It's not a main office by any means, but it still pays market and represent's PH's only office not on a coast, so they're not going to be closing it anytime soon. If you like the people and the work that they do, I wouldn't worry about accepting an offer there.

ATL, duderino

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Latham NY?

[rayiner]

Anyone have insight on Paul Hastings Chicago? It's a pretty small new office which I assume comes with risks and benefits.

It's not a main office by any means, but it still pays market and represent's PH's only office not on a coast, so they're not going to be closing it anytime soon. If you like the people and the work that they do, I wouldn't worry about accepting an offer there.

ATL, duderino

Atlanta is a bit further from the ocean than say DC, but it's in a coastal state and traditionally considered part of the eastern seaboard.

[mths]

Where is the information about Orrick's financial health coming from? Is there anything you can point to that supports that they aren't doing well?

Columbia career services told us that they slashed a bunch of interview slots from last year's OCI to this year's.

They pulled out of OCI at NU entirely.

same with cornell

[Anonymous User]

This decision is enormous, enormous news for Cravath. They've probably done it like 3 times ever, and once was recently a BK guy from Skadden at the height of the crisis. That anonymous poster also meant partner-track laterals, i.e. mid-level and senior associates, which Cravath at least claims to not hire at all, rather than partner laterals (who they also claim to never hire). It's actually a point the firm tries to sell: the only way in is through the front door, they boast about not hiring laterals.

As for why that anon said (s)he wouldn't work for Cravath over most other V10s, I can provide some context. Cravath has a great reputation and interesting, professional people. But it also has a well deserved reputation for working its associates more consistently and in a more demanding fashion than basically every firm other than Wachtell. It likely at one point enjoyed a reputation that exceeded that of places like S&C, DPW, STB, Cleary, etc. but that's not true any more. It's probably not worse, but signing up to work there basically guarantees you longer hours. While there are going to be associates at every other V10 who pull hours longer than attorneys at Cravath, it's not quite as institutionalized.

And the point about mistakes during the crisis is pretty on point. A partner there has admitted as much to me in person. Cravath saw its PPP fall 24% or so in one year. Still a profitable firm, still a prestigious firm, still a place that will launch incredible careers and train talented lawyers: but there's almost nothing you can point to that would make it a better choice than another V10ish NYC firm, unless you found it a particularly strong fit personality wise.

Thanks for this. Also want to hear about Cravath's culture/work environment (other than long hours, obviously). Is it as bad as it's known to be? (i.e. soul crushing)

It depends on your personality, I think. I personally didn't find the atmosphere "soul crushing" (though I don't know anything about the hours obviously), but I did find it a little off-putting. I did not like the feng-shui of the place. Green carpet and dark wood created a somber tone that was reflected in the people. I found Davis Polk, for example, (light beige carpet, light maple wood) to be warmer and more open. I think that tone carried over to the people too.

This is obviously a small reason to choose one firm over the other, but again these firms all select from the same pool of people. Folks, including most of the partners you will work with, choose one firm over the other based on these factors.

I work at Cravath (and chose it over WLRK and S&C). I found the soul-crushing rumors to be absolutely false. You will work hard. But everyone is amazing and wonderful and the smartest people you will ever meet. In fact, as a student, I had an callback at Davis Polk, and it was just terrible compared to my experience at Cravath.

Two notes about comparisons to WLRK/S&C: I might have chosen one of them if I were going to do corporate/transactional work, but definitely not as a litigator. The only firm I would consider choosing over Cravath for litigation is Williams & Connolly (and GDC if I knew I wanted to do high-level appellate lit). But there was one associate with us who was dating a WLRK associate, and when we were leaving an event at midnight she said, "oh, this is great -- my boyfriend has a half day at WLRK, so he'll be home just after I get back." Her boyfriend routinely worked until 3 in the morning, which was not the case at Cravath AT ALL. I think if you can handle that and you want to make bank, WLRK is a good option, but it is otherwise a very difficult life.

As for S&C -- great firm. It just wasn't my style. But I think once you get to the top firms, it becomes much more about fit than prestige.

[Anonymous User]

Insight into Boies Schiller? Anyone work there? Is it also "soul crushing"?

[PM61]

Anyone have insight on Paul Hastings Chicago? It's a pretty small new office which I assume comes with risks and benefits.

It's not a main office by any means, but it still pays market and represent's PH's only office not on a coast, so they're not going to be closing it anytime soon. If you like the people and the work that they do, I wouldn't worry about accepting an offer there.

ATL, duderino

Atlanta is a bit further from the ocean than say DC, but it's in a coastal state and traditionally considered part of the eastern seaboard.

Chicago is on the coast of Lake Michigan

[Doritos]

Insight into Boies Schiller? Anyone work there? Is it also "soul crushing"?

Do you want to sleep, or do you want to win?

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
anything comments or opinions about OMM in Los Angeles?



How do you feel about a sink or swim environment? If you want a firm where it's all but guaranteed that you will get an offer, then this is not the firm for you. If you thrive on competition and are OK with taking a gamble (as the firm will tell you that the offer is yours to earn), then it's a decent place.

I don't know if you have any firsthand experience at OMM-LA, but this is the opposite of my summer experience. First of all, at any biglaw practice, your summer offer will be your offer to earn. If you have work product issues or can't behave at social events, most law firms will bounce you. In my experience, they made it clear that they had space for all summers. However, they said that of course we had to prove ourselves and they wouldn't do that for us. This doesn't strike me as overly competitive or "sink or swim."

I really liked it there. The work was great. That's not unique to OMM-LA. For instance, I'm sure GDC-LA and Latham-LA have equally impressive clients. But I chose them over the others because of the people and the work environment. They work hard, like any biglaw attorneys would, but the people are great and I get the feeling that they want their associates to succeed. I think if you really want to see "sink or swim" you should check out some of the law firms that don't have any associate training or mentoring programs.

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
anything comments or opinions about OMM in Los Angeles?



How do you feel about a sink or swim environment? If you want a firm where it's all but guaranteed that you will get an offer, then this is not the firm for you. If you thrive on competition and are OK with taking a gamble (as the firm will tell you that the offer is yours to earn), then it's a decent place.

I don't know if you have any firsthand experience at OMM-LA, but this is the opposite of my summer experience. First of all, at any biglaw practice, your summer offer will be your offer to earn. If you have work product issues or can't behave at social events, most law firms will bounce you. In my experience, they made it clear that they had space for all summers. However, they said that of course we had to prove ourselves and they wouldn't do that for us. This doesn't strike me as overly competitive or "sink or swim."

I really liked it there. The work was great. That's not unique to OMM-LA. For instance, I'm sure GDC-LA and Latham-LA have equally impressive clients. But I chose them over the others because of the people and the work environment. They work hard, like any biglaw attorneys would, but the people are great and I get the feeling that they want their associates to succeed. I think if you really want to see "sink or swim" you should check out some of the law firms that don't have any associate training or mentoring programs.

can you tell me more about your summer experience? what kind of hours did you and the other summers generally work? did you work on weekends? did most associates seem to be billing around the 2000-2100hrs level, and how late did they usually stay?
were there any summers in your class that you know got no/cold offered?

Thanks!!!

[Anonymous User]

can you tell me more about your summer experience? what kind of hours did you and the other summers generally work? did you work on weekends? did most associates seem to be billing around the 2000-2100hrs level, and how late did they usually stay?
were there any summers in your class that you know got no/cold offered?

Thanks!!!

My hours were fine. It was pretty much what I expected. I think that the hours were "officially" 9:00-5:30 and I know that there were some summers who actually stuck to those hours most of the time. I just did whatever I had to do to get my work done. My hours were normally 9:00-6:30/7, I'd guess. There were definitely days that I stayed later and I probably worked on one or two weekends (not all weekend, though) during the summer. I think that if I skipped some events when I had a lot of work, I probably could have avoided working late/on the weekend.

As for hours, it really depended on practice area and the partner that associates were working for. There were some that were extremely busy, were on big cases, etc and billed 2300+. There were others, mostly doing transactional work, who had lower hours because things are just slower there, and they were below 2000. Whenever I stayed late or came in on the weekend, I wasn't alone, but the attorneys that I would see in the office were working on some time sensitive project that everyone knew about, so at least people were there for pressing reasons.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any thoughts on Bryan Cave?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any thoughts on Bryan Cave?

Which office?

[Anonymous User]

Wondering about the KC, STL, and Chicago offices

[Anonymous User]

Bump. Any thoughts on the above Bryan Cave offices?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts/experiences and such about Linklaters NY?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Venable? Is there any worry that they're not financially sound?

Also, why was there an earlier mention that associates aren't treated well? Does that simply come from the vault page comment that reads "Unhappy?"

[Anonymous User]

How about Quinn (NY)?