UVa OGI 2011 thread Forum

[fouronthe4loor]

For firms that aren't requesting cover letters on Symplicity when you bid them, does it make sense to attach one to your resume and upload that as your resume under Symplicity?

Would this show more interest or would this just annoy them?

I think this would annoy them - if they want a cover letter, they'll ask for it. (although I don't have any experience w/law firm recruiting yet, I screened job interview candidates at a prior job and we didn't consider applications that didn't follow directions...)

In my meeting with CSO, she indicated that it would be a good idea to include a cover letter for each firm. Not all of them had to be specifically tailored, but she said it could help.

Hm, interesting. Thanks for sharing - I didn't bother asking CSO about it & wouldn't have thought that! Disregard my earlier post then.

[Cavalier]

For firms that aren't requesting cover letters on Symplicity when you bid them, does it make sense to attach one to your resume and upload that as your resume under Symplicity?

Would this show more interest or would this just annoy them?

I wouldn't recommend it. If you really want an interview, either bid them high or special request them. The special request gives you an opportunity to show interest in the firm. Although I am making this assertion without any evidence, I would think that sneaking in a cover letter would be as likely to affect you negatively as it would positively, and since there is another way to show interest (a special request), there's no need to sneak in a cover letter.

[desertlaw]

Just found out what we were trying to figure out earlier...

If you bid on multiple offices of 1 firm, Symplicity will automatically add the # of bids you're allowed to place.

[Anonymous User]

If I am in the top third, interested in NYC , DC , Atlanta should I be mass-mailing firms?
No WE

[Anonymous User]

If I am in the top third, interested in NYC , DC , Atlanta should I be mass-mailing firms?
No WE

We're pretty much in the exact same boat and I'm msas mailing firms not coming to OGI.

[Cavalier]

If I am in the top third, interested in NYC , DC , Atlanta should I be mass-mailing firms?
No WE

No need to mass mail, but I would certainly recommend you do targetted mailings to firms not coming to OGI. You're likely to get something from OGI--especially in NY--but nothing is a guarantee ITE, so if you can get a couple callbacks from a dozen or two mailings over the course of July, you should.

[RVP11]

If I am in the top third, interested in NYC , DC , Atlanta should I be mass-mailing firms?
No WE

Why wouldn't you?

Especially if you have ties to another smaller market.

[showNprove]

Hey guyz: special request the crap out of every firm you want to interview with. It works.

+100. That's how I landed my firm.

[desertlaw]

Going somewhat away from bidding talk, but any thoughts on practicing for interviewing that you wise rising 3L's thought was helpful? Just standing in front of mirror practicing answers or answering them in the car on the commute?

[Cavalier]

Going somewhat away from bidding talk, but any thoughts on practicing for interviewing that you wise rising 3L's thought was helpful? Just standing in front of mirror practicing answers or answering them in the car on the commute?

Practicing in front of a mirror for a few hours is all it takes, and it will make your answers much stronger than if you just wing it. You should try and make the interview more conversational, but you want to have strong answers to the basic questions you'll get asked up front (Why do you want to be a lawyer? What made you go to law school? Why do you want to work at our firm? Why do you want to work in this location? What was something interesting you worked on last summer?). There are probably a couple I'm missing, but those seem to be the main questions.

[Anonymous User]

does anyone have info on bidding on Chicago?

[Anonymous User]

For our current summer jobs, do we put this in present tense assuming we will be there by the bid deadline/end of summer, or do we put it in past tense?

[unc0mm0n1]

does anyone have info on bidding on Chicago?

I'd be interested in this.

[Cavalier]

For our current summer jobs, do we put this in present tense assuming we will be there by the bid deadline/end of summer, or do we put it in past tense?

I would do past tense since it'll be in the past by the time time you're interviewing and being questioned about your resume.

[Anonymous User]

For our current summer jobs, do we put this in present tense assuming we will be there by the bid deadline/end of summer, or do we put it in past tense?

I would do past tense since it'll be in the past by the time time you're interviewing and being questioned about your resume.

Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

anyone have a guess at how likely it is that a person with a 3.41 will get a job through OGI?

[Anonymous User]

anyone have a guess at how likely it is that a person with a 3.41 will get a job through OGI?

This seems like an overly broad question (although one to which I'm most certainly interested in the answer). WE? Markets of interest? Other information our grand prognosticators should know?

You're more than just a number, man. You're somebody.

[uvahooo]

anyone have a guess at how likely it is that a person with a 3.41 will get a job through OGI?

This seems like an overly broad question (although one to which I'm most certainly interested in the answer). WE? Markets of interest? Other information our grand prognosticators should know?

You're more than just a number, man. You're somebody.

I like the stress of somebody.

[Cavalier]

anyone have a guess at how likely it is that a person with a 3.41 will get a job through OGI?

This isn't like law school where, in most circumstances, nothing else matters that much beyond your GPA and LSAT (and race). Grades are the most important factor, but whether or not you succeed at OGI depends on where you are bidding, how strong of an interviewer you are, your work experience, and so on. You can't change your work experience at this point, but you can still decide to target favorable markets (i.e. NY and not DC) and to work on your interviewing if necessary. If you aren't lazy about the process, I'd say the odds are strongly in your favor, but again, it's up to you to make the right decisions over the next month and a half.

[bgdddymtty]

Re: Writing samples: I planned to continue using my Fall LRW memo, but I went back and looked at it and realized that our prof had us use embedded cites rather than footnotes. Assuming that the Bluebooking is correct, is this a big deal?

[Cavalier]

Re: Writing samples: I planned to continue using my Fall LRW memo, but I went back and looked at it and realized that our prof had us use embedded cites rather than footnotes. Assuming that the Bluebooking is correct, is this a big deal?

No, it's fine. Just make sure everything about it is perfect--I don't think firms care much beyond that. If you're thinking of applying for other positions later on (e.g. clerkships) you'll probably want to produce something more sophisticated than a memo written your first semester of law school, but for now, it will suffice.

[thesealocust]

Re: Writing samples: I planned to continue using my Fall LRW memo, but I went back and looked at it and realized that our prof had us use embedded cites rather than footnotes. Assuming that the Bluebooking is correct, is this a big deal?

Most judicial opinions and briefs are embedded rather than footnoted. Footnote citations are predominantly the province of academic articles. Either would be fine for this purpose.

[vamedic03]

Re: Writing samples: I planned to continue using my Fall LRW memo, but I went back and looked at it and realized that our prof had us use embedded cites rather than footnotes. Assuming that the Bluebooking is correct, is this a big deal?

Outside of legal academic publishing, embedded cites (and all the blue pages) is the correct citation form. The only time to use strict non blue-pages "blue book" form is a publishable article/note.

[Anonymous User]

so what do Medians do? Hit some V20s, and below, and focus on V50 and below and see what happens? CSO just sent me some charts saying where minimum of median is at some firms from least to most competitive firms, some reaches, and some where call-back averages were median (like 4 firms). CSO said I should try for some reaches too, like Jones Day, but from what I hear on here, that seems like a very long-shot. I know this is a very broad question, but I don't see a general strategy to this spiel.

[thesealocust]

so what do Medians do? Hit some V20s, and below, and focus on V50 and below and see what happens? CSO just sent me some charts saying where minimum of median is at some firms from least to most competitive firms, some reaches, and some where call-back averages were median (like 4 firms). CSO said I should try for some reaches too, like Jones Day, but from what I hear on here, that seems like a very long-shot. I know this is a very broad question, but I don't see a general strategy to this spiel.

Sounds like you're thinking about it the right way. Don't assume that Vault rankings correspond well with selectivity - sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not, and you definitely can't give meaningful advice like "focus on V50 and below" because it just doesn't work that way.

At median I'd suggest focusing on NYC and any secondary markets you have strong ties to, and applying to firms that are traditionally less selective / hire around median. There may be fewer of those than you have bids, in which case start throwing in firms that are somewhat more selective with large classes.

Most importantly, while you can get a big firm gig ITE with median grades from UVA, it's likely that many will not. So start a proactive job search outside of OGI in mid to late July by sending letters to firms that aren't doing OCI (usually smaller to more medium sized) in markets you'd like to work, and make sure your cover letters and resume are pristine for that. Sort of a "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" mentality. Good luck!