DOJ Honors Program Forum

[Anonymous User]

I haven't heard anything about budget issues for this year, but it could easily still be an issue! I was under the impression, however, that there were 56 budget-approved positions. Could be wrong on that. Thanks for posting the link. At least there may be some good news in that they have not completed first-round and no one appears to have received official word of being an alternate.

[Anonymous User]

My references have not been called and because I had another offer pending I called my ARC and she informed me that as of the moment I "have been designated as an alternate" but I am "still under consideration."

I don't think there is a budgeting issue this year.

[Anonymous User]

I wish they would disclose this information even if we didn't have another offer pending.

[Anonymous User]

I wish they would disclose this information even if we didn't have another offer pending.

Yeah, since they obviously have the information I don't know why they won't release it.

[Anonymous User]

Civil Rights Division first round offers have all gone out.

[Anonymous User]

EOIR finalist still waiting...at this point I'm inclined to believe I'm an alternate.

[Anonymous User]

EOIR finalist still waiting...at this point I'm inclined to believe I'm an alternate.

Same here. Hoping that we'll get an e-mail confirmation of this soon.

[Anonymous User]

EOIR finalist still waiting...at this point I'm inclined to believe I'm an alternate.

Same here. Hoping that we'll get an e-mail confirmation of this soon.

The worst thing is I don't think they will tell us.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been called up from the alternate list?

[Anonymous User]

I also am a finalist according to avue, but I havent heard anything!! And my references haven't been called. Has anyone besides the one person that called been told they were an alternate? And for the one person that called--does it say alternate on avue, or does it still say finalist? Also---for everyone that got offers did they all go out 2.5 weeks ago or has anyone got an offer this week or last week?


This suspense reallllly sucks!!! Im guessing since I haven' heard anything that I am probably out of luck.

[Anonymous User]

I also am a finalist according to avue, but I havent heard anything!! And my references haven't been called. Has anyone besides the one person that called been told they were an alternate? And for the one person that called--does it say alternate on avue, or does it still say finalist? Also---for everyone that got offers did they all go out 2.5 weeks ago or has anyone got an offer this week or last week?


This suspense reallllly sucks!!! Im guessing since I haven' heard anything that I am probably out of luck.

Hard to know if they are done with offers... isn't it. I mean how would we know?

[Anonymous User]

I think if your refs haven't been contacted you are SOL.

[Anonymous User]

I also am a finalist according to avue, but I havent heard anything!! And my references haven't been called. Has anyone besides the one person that called been told they were an alternate? And for the one person that called--does it say alternate on avue, or does it still say finalist? Also---for everyone that got offers did they all go out 2.5 weeks ago or has anyone got an offer this week or last week?


This suspense reallllly sucks!!! Im guessing since I haven' heard anything that I am probably out of luck.

That is probably me you are referring to - my avue status says finalist but I called my ARC and found out that offers had gone out on 11/15 for Antitrust. My references were contacted about a week after my interview, which made me hopeful. I actually called my interviewer as well and he said that I am high on the alternate list. So, I keep crossing my fingers that someone will decline and let others who really want the job have it However, the people who got offers have 28 days to accept/decline, and it is creeping up to that point. Maybe it is time to throw in the towel...

[Anonymous User]

I just registered for TLS in order to post this insight about EOIR. I know how tortuous it can be waiting and not hearing. My advice is not to fret over it until the new year.

I was selected as a finalist by OIL and EOIR. My references were called by both, but I wasn't given an offer by OIL, only by EOIR. Although I would be very happy with EOIR, the OIL job has some distinct advantages. And because OIL made offers before EOIR, there may be a couple of second-round OIL spots that open up before the first-round EOIR deadline. DHS Honors Program probably attracts many of the same applicants as OIL and EOIR, and the word on the street is that they are going to be making first-round offers before the end of the year, i.e. before the first-round EOIR deadline. I'm guessing that there are several people like me who have been offered EOIR spots, but who haven't yet given up on OIL and DHS. But all this will be decided by the end of the year. Then EOIR will know how many other clerkships they can offer.

Some advantages to OIL and DHS over EOIR:
1- OIL and DHS are GS-15 positions, EOIR clerkships cap at GS-12;
2- OIL and DHS are in D.C., many of EOIR's clerkships are in remote locations;
3- OIL and DHS skills are probably more marketable than EOIR;
4- EOIR clerks do not qualify for DOJ's $6K per year loan repayment, whereas OIL attorneys do. I'm not sure of DHS's loan program.
5- Many law school's loan repayment programs don't cover clerkships, but do cover government work.

Considering all of this, don't be surprised if many of us with EOIR offers keep them open as long as we can in case OIL or DHS comes calling.

My suggestions on how to improve this for everyone:
1- Get DHS on the DOJ timeline. Or at least create more transparency.
2- Get OIL to make a weekly announcement about how many of their offers have been accepted. Because they are at the top of the food-chain in this area of the law, and because they are only hiring 9 people this year, they really don't need to keep many alternates.

[Anonymous User]

I just registered for TLS in order to post this insight about EOIR. I know how tortuous it can be waiting and not hearing. My advice is not to fret over it until the new year....

Thanks for all your insight. I've accepted a position with EOIR but all this is very interesting... wondering if they would consider switching my location. Probably not haha. I would consider working for DHS, though I much prefer DOJ, but the work that OIL does doesn't appeal to me at all (not that DHS or OIL are options for me... haha)

[Anonymous User]

I just registered for TLS in order to post this insight about EOIR. I know how tortuous it can be waiting and not hearing. My advice is not to fret over it until the new year....

Thanks for all your insight. I've accepted a position with EOIR but all this is very interesting... wondering if they would consider switching my location. Probably not haha. I would consider working for DHS, though I much prefer DOJ, but the work that OIL does doesn't appeal to me at all (not that DHS or OIL are options for me... haha)

Yeah, I think I may be happier at EOIR too, but given the reality of looking for another job in 2 years, probably in another city, I started trying to think about this systematically.

[Anonymous User]

I just registered for TLS in order to post this insight about EOIR. I know how tortuous it can be waiting and not hearing. My advice is not to fret over it until the new year....

Thanks for all your insight. I've accepted a position with EOIR but all this is very interesting... wondering if they would consider switching my location. Probably not haha. I would consider working for DHS, though I much prefer DOJ, but the work that OIL does doesn't appeal to me at all (not that DHS or OIL are options for me... haha)

Yeah, I think I may be happier at EOIR too, but given the reality of looking for another job in 2 years, probably in another city, I started trying to think about this systematically.

I want to practice immigration law for the duration of my legal career so coming off a clerkship with EOIR is going to put me in a great position to land a good immigration job.

[Anonymous User]

I just registered for TLS in order to post this insight about EOIR. I know how tortuous it can be waiting and not hearing. My advice is not to fret over it until the new year....

Thanks for all your insight. I've accepted a position with EOIR but all this is very interesting... wondering if they would consider switching my location. Probably not haha. I would consider working for DHS, though I much prefer DOJ, but the work that OIL does doesn't appeal to me at all (not that DHS or OIL are options for me... haha)

Yeah, I think I may be happier at EOIR too, but given the reality of looking for another job in 2 years, probably in another city, I started trying to think about this systematically.

I want to practice immigration law for the duration of my legal career so coming off a clerkship with EOIR is going to put me in a great position to land a good immigration job.

Where would you like to end up? My guess is that civil rights groups that do impact litigation would much prefer someone who worked at OIL - Appellate than someone who clerked for EOIR, and that firms that do corporate immigration work like Fragomen and BAL would prefer experience at OIL - District Court. Nonprofits that provide direct services and small immigration firms that do removal defense would prefer EOIR clerks, particularly those who can provide insight into the judges where they practice. But there is a reason that these clerks often end up as ICE attorneys. The salary is around twice what a removal-centric law firm or non-profit can provide. If you have a different perspective, then please, please tell me. I would love to hear that I could move from EOIR to advocating for immigrant clients while increasing my salary.

[Anonymous User]

Some people are not in immigration law for the money. It's not exactly the most lucrative legal field out there.

[jbm4]

Some people are not immigration law for the money. It's not exactly the most lucrative legal field out there.

Yes, of course. Who here doesn't know that? But does that mean we don't even look at the numbers? An EOIR clerk is going to make at least $70K in his/her second year, and will qualify for government jobs making at least $82K the next year and $97K the year after. Or s/he can take a job at a non-profit making perhaps $40K and $45K, literally half the government salary, which itself is half of a third- and fourth-year biglaw salary. But perhaps it isn't the opportunity costs that keeps EOIR clerks from going straight to nonprofits. Perhaps it's simply dropping from $70K to $40K. Whatever the reason, it just doesn't happen much. When you're actually facing the decision, money (unfortunately) becomes a part of the equation. I don't need to make biglaw money, but I do need to make more than $40K, at least while I have student loan debt.

[Anonymous User]

Some people are not immigration law for the money. It's not exactly the most lucrative legal field out there.

Yes, of course. Who here doesn't know that? But does that mean we don't even look at the numbers? An EOIR clerk is going to make at least $70K in his/her second year, and will qualify for government jobs making at least $82K the next year and $97K the year after. Or s/he can take a job at a non-profit making perhaps $40K and $45K, literally half the government salary, which itself is half of a third- and fourth-year biglaw salary. But perhaps it isn't the opportunity costs that keeps EOIR clerks from going straight to nonprofits. Perhaps it's simply dropping from $70K to $40K. Whatever the reason, it just doesn't happen much. When you're actually facing the decision, money (unfortunately) becomes a part of the equation. I don't need to make biglaw money, but I do need to make more than $40K, at least while I have student loan debt.

The new government student loan repayment program makes a big difference. And it depends on the job and what is available to see if it's worth it. I would rather work at a nonprofit doing work that I love than at OIL doing work I don't love, even if that means taking a massive pay cut.

[Anonymous User]

Some people are not immigration law for the money. It's not exactly the most lucrative legal field out there.

Yes, of course. Who here doesn't know that? But does that mean we don't even look at the numbers? An EOIR clerk is going to make at least $70K in his/her second year, and will qualify for government jobs making at least $82K the next year and $97K the year after. Or s/he can take a job at a non-profit making perhaps $40K and $45K, literally half the government salary, which itself is half of a third- and fourth-year biglaw salary. But perhaps it isn't the opportunity costs that keeps EOIR clerks from going straight to nonprofits. Perhaps it's simply dropping from $70K to $40K. Whatever the reason, it just doesn't happen much. When you're actually facing the decision, money (unfortunately) becomes a part of the equation. I don't need to make biglaw money, but I do need to make more than $40K, at least while I have student loan debt.

The new government student loan repayment program makes a big difference. And it depends on the job and what is available to see if it's worth it. I would rather work at a nonprofit doing work that I love than at OIL doing work I don't love, even if that means taking a massive pay cut.

Yes, you're right, the devil is in the details. For me and my school's LRAP, it's always best for me to maximize the LRAP subsidy, which requires me to pay more than IBR would. The advantage diminishes the higher my salary goes, and is at its best at a nonprofit's salary. Either way, running the numbers showed me that IBR doesn't help me.

[Anonymous User]

Just received my rejection email from the Civil Division.

[Anonymous User]

Just received my rejection email from the Civil Division.

that stinks. *hugs*

[Anonymous User]

Who out there is still waiting?