Things You Wish You Would Have Known Before OCI Forum

[Ratchet Jackson]

So, about the suit.

I know you're supposed to have a nice suit, but I don't know what a nice suit is supposed to be like. How much should it cost? What stores? Is one from Macy's ok?

It's less about the cost and more about the fit. Macy's will be fine but obviously if you can spring for a nicer suit, you should. I'd keep it around $600-800 for economic sake.

And get the damn thing tailored. Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

[homestyle28]

Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

Most important part. A good tailor can make a JC Penny's suit look decent. The perk of nicer stores (and spending more $) is that they usually have good tailors on staff. I'm a big fan of most Nordstrom's Mens Depts.

[Huluba]

So, about the suit.

I know you're supposed to have a nice suit, but I don't know what a nice suit is supposed to be like. How much should it cost? What stores? Is one from Macy's ok?

It's less about the cost and more about the fit. Macy's will be fine but obviously if you can spring for a nicer suit, you should. I'd keep it around $600-800 for economic sake.

And get the damn thing tailored. Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

600-800 seems like a lot. You can get made-to-measure at a place like mysuit or astor and black for 500.

[piccolittle]

Not the quoted poster above, but I absolutely agree with #1. I worked for an extremely small, but strong lit boutique my 1L summer. I was able to translate that experience (and their offer to have me return part-time during the year) into a great interview with a strong lit firm (think Quinn, Boies, similar). Will be an SA there this summer even though my GPA should have made me an auto-reject.

Question: Does it matter what sort of litigation the 1L summer experience was? For example, commercial litigation versus personal injury? Or does any strong litigation boutique have potential to give you a boost?

It's not even about the type of law or the type of employer (for the most part). I'm working in-house this summer and the name of the company + the fact that they are clients of almost every firm in this market (which I am targeting) has been going pretty far in my mass mails. Also, my supervisor is more concerned with finding me a job than making me do busywork, so almost any time I come to her to ask about a firm she just picks up the phone. She's also been helping me craft my application materials, networking skills, taking me to exclusive client receptions at the firms I want to go to, and doing interview prep with me.

I majorly lucked out but my main point with this is that the common TLS wisdom that "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal" is SO SO SO WRONG. It can make a huge difference. That is the one thing I would change about TLS advice - everyone should be striving for a 1L job that does the things I mentioned above, but if you don't get something like that, that's when "your 1L job doesn't matter as long as it's legal."

Amen. I'm a rising 3L. Last summer I worked in-house for a company in a heavily-regulated industry (which I knew I wanted to practice in). It helped me stand out in the screeners at OCI (since there weren't many people who could demonstrate a legit background in this practice). Also, my callbacks were mostly set up with attorneys from this practice group (instead of being w/random associates and partners), who were excited to have a potential summer with demonstrable experience in the field.

So while judicial internship/USAO/public defender experiences may be pretty fungible, not all summer jobs are created equal - and good ones can actually make a TON of difference at OCI.

I think it's shameful how little information our OCS had on in-house work. I only knew it was a possibility because of my prior work experience and TLS. Most of my friends have no idea how to get it or why it is awesome (which it obviously is).

[Ratchet Jackson]

So, about the suit.

I know you're supposed to have a nice suit, but I don't know what a nice suit is supposed to be like. How much should it cost? What stores? Is one from Macy's ok?

It's less about the cost and more about the fit. Macy's will be fine but obviously if you can spring for a nicer suit, you should. I'd keep it around $600-800 for economic sake.

And get the damn thing tailored. Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

600-800 seems like a lot. You can get made-to-measure at a place like mysuit or astor and black for 500.

Not familiar with the quality of those suits, but that sounds like a pretty solid deal. The $600-800 was just based on my experience out in CA/NY but obviously you can go lower and find a decent suit for interviews. I wouldn't rush to H&M and stock up on "suits" though. Spend some money on a quality brand + some nice shoes. It'll be a good investment.

[shock259]

Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

Most important part. A good tailor can make a JC Penny's suit look decent. The perk of nicer stores (and spending more $) is that they usually have good tailors on staff. I'm a big fan of most Nordstrom's Mens Depts.

How do you know if a tailor is good? I bought a crappy suit for like $150 a few years ago at Jos A Bank and it fits me like a balloon, yet I had it supposedly tailored in the store after I bought it.

Also, this thread is amazing. Thanks to all the contributors.

[Arbiter213]

Tag.

[Ratchet Jackson]

Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

Most important part. A good tailor can make a JC Penny's suit look decent. The perk of nicer stores (and spending more $) is that they usually have good tailors on staff. I'm a big fan of most Nordstrom's Mens Depts.

How do you know if a tailor is good? I bought a crappy suit for like $150 a few years ago at Jos A Bank and it fits me like a balloon, yet I had it supposedly tailored in the store after I bought it.

Also, this thread is amazing. Thanks to all the contributors.

Online reviews, word of mouth, and the array of services the tailor can provide are good starting points (crappy tailors won't be able to make certain alterations). What your tailor did was fit the off the rack suit to your more specific measurements but you need to figure out how you want your suit to atcually fit your frame (i.e. sleeve length, pant inseam/seat, etc.), and go to a tailor and have it cut to your specifications. Bring the suit to the tailor and tell him how you want it fitting.

[20130312]

JAB tailors are not very good. Find a cute old Italian man.

[Ratchet Jackson]

Or fly to Hong Kong if you have $$$$$$$$.

[timbs4339]

Off the rack suits that don't fit properly look cheap and horrible no matter who the maker is.

Most important part. A good tailor can make a JC Penny's suit look decent. The perk of nicer stores (and spending more $) is that they usually have good tailors on staff. I'm a big fan of most Nordstrom's Mens Depts.

How do you know if a tailor is good? I bought a crappy suit for like $150 a few years ago at Jos A Bank and it fits me like a balloon, yet I had it supposedly tailored in the store after I bought it.

Also, this thread is amazing. Thanks to all the contributors.

Online reviews, word of mouth, and the array of services the tailor can provide are good starting points (crappy tailors won't be able to make certain alterations). What your tailor did was fit the off the rack suit to your more specific measurements but you need to figure out how you want your suit to atcually fit your frame (i.e. sleeve length, pant inseam/seat, etc.), and go to a tailor and have it cut to your specifications. Bring the suit to the tailor and tell him how you want it fitting.

Also remember there are certain parts of the suit that a tailor cannot alter without ruining the jacket. For example, the tailor can't really do the shoulders/neck area- that should fit perfectly before you buy the suit. They can and should shorten the sleeves, hem the pants and suppress the waist. Remember to wear your dress shirt/tie and interview shoes when suit shopping and leave 2 weeks for alterations.

I'm not advising anyone to run out and buy a 1K suit, but if you have to spring for a few hundred dollars more in order to get a suit that fits decently off the rack with room for minor alterations- do that.

Also, make sure the rest of your outfit matches. Shoes, socks, shirt, and tie.

[20130312]

Tailors CAN alter the shoulders, but it's a ridiculously expensive proposition. Better off just buying a new suit.

[timbs4339]

Tailors CAN alter the shoulders, but it's a ridiculously expensive proposition. Better off just buying a new suit.

Yeah and rarely looks very good. If you're a first-time buyer it's best to just go with no shoulder alterations as a rule. Suit salesmen/tailors can often be very pushy and overpromise.

[piccolittle]

^^ isn't there a whole other thread for discussion of men's suits?

[20130312]

^^ isn't there a whole other thread for discussion of men's suits?

Welcome, brothers.

[Ratchet Jackson]

Tip from my boy who is a rising 3L and did well at OCI last year: grab a Chambers guide for 2011-12 to make the "Why Firm X?" question much more manageable. It's a solid guide all around and could be beneficial in conveying interest and showing that you did your homework for the interviewer.

[keg411]

Tip from my boy who is a rising 3L and did well at OCI last year: grab a Chambers guide for 2011-12 to make the "Why Firm X?" question much more manageable. It's a solid guide all around and could be beneficial in conveying interest and showing that you did your homework for the interviewer.

At Michigan, they give hard copies of Chambers Associate out for free the day before OCI. I lost mine the very first day of OCI

[ilovesf]

For mass mail, how much do you tailor your letter to the firm? The same as OCI, meaning adding in a sentence or two about why the firm, or just the same letter? I can't really imagine writing 50 cover letters for each firm in specific detail.

[drmguy]

tag

[Gecko of Doom]

Tip from my boy who is a rising 3L and did well at OCI last year: grab a Chambers guide for 2011-12 to make the "Why Firm X?" question much more manageable. It's a solid guide all around and could be beneficial in conveying interest and showing that you did your homework for the interviewer.

At Michigan, they give hard copies of Chambers Associate out for free the day before OCI. I lost mine the very first day of OCI

Are the hard copies of Chambers any different than what's available online?

[keg411]

Tip from my boy who is a rising 3L and did well at OCI last year: grab a Chambers guide for 2011-12 to make the "Why Firm X?" question much more manageable. It's a solid guide all around and could be beneficial in conveying interest and showing that you did your homework for the interviewer.

At Michigan, they give hard copies of Chambers Associate out for free the day before OCI. I lost mine the very first day of OCI

Are the hard copies of Chambers any different than what's available online?

I don't remember it being different. It was just a bit easier to read in book format.

[ilovesf]

I have a weird question about writing samples. I am rereading mine and finishing up the edits, and I remember that my professor asked us to short cite the previous case at the top of the page for the first citation. So instead of putting id. at the top of the page, I put a short cite. Is this the kind of thing I should change for my writing sample for OCI, or is it ok to leave it? I am not sure if this is something totally professor specific, so it would look like a mistake to employers.

[Emma.]

I have a weird question about writing samples. I am rereading mine and finishing up the edits, and I remember that my professor asked us to short cite the previous case at the top of the page for the first citation. So instead of putting id. at the top of the page, I put a short cite. Is this the kind of thing I should change for my writing sample for OCI, or is it ok to leave it? I am not sure if this is something totally professor specific, so it would look like a mistake to employers.

FWIW, I was not once asked for a writing sample during OCI or callbacks.

[JazzOne]

I have a weird question about writing samples. I am rereading mine and finishing up the edits, and I remember that my professor asked us to short cite the previous case at the top of the page for the first citation. So instead of putting id. at the top of the page, I put a short cite. Is this the kind of thing I should change for my writing sample for OCI, or is it ok to leave it? I am not sure if this is something totally professor specific, so it would look like a mistake to employers.

The Bluebook does not require the use of short cites or id. You can use full citations throughout the document, and it's also acceptable to use a short cite rather than id for the first citation of each page. However, short cites are only appropriate if they are within five footnotes below the full citation. You can't use short cites for the rest of the document just because you gave the full citation near the beginning.

Having said all that, it's your writing sample. Edit it however you think best. Your professor's requirement is a little idiosyncratic, but I don't see anything technically wrong with it.

[ilovesf]

I have a weird question about writing samples. I am rereading mine and finishing up the edits, and I remember that my professor asked us to short cite the previous case at the top of the page for the first citation. So instead of putting id. at the top of the page, I put a short cite. Is this the kind of thing I should change for my writing sample for OCI, or is it ok to leave it? I am not sure if this is something totally professor specific, so it would look like a mistake to employers.

FWIW, I was not once asked for a writing sample during OCI or callbacks.

Mine is preselect and a majority of the firms ask for our writing samples in order for us to bid, and many that don't have in the description to bring them to the interview.