CCN Students without Offers Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone go to Columbia's Career Services Student Advisory Panel today? I had class.

[vamedic03]

Yes and looking for ideas/suggestions.....

I don't have time to check the websites, but what about the following often overlooked agencies/organizations:

Office of the Comptroller of Currency
CFTC
FDIC
FINRA
FINCEN
SIPC
FAA
FDA

[Anonymous User]

I'm trying to decide whether to continue looking for small/mid-law or to try for gov/PI and hope to get a firm job 3L year. Law students have a skewed view of the world, but it seems like even non ultra-competitive gov/PI is more prestigious than non-boutique small/mid-law , and I'm wondering if 3L employers would look at it that way too (I think it's more a student thing). Personally, I'd rather work private sector, and even small-mid law pays more than most gov/PI, but loan-repayment assistance factors into the calculation as well.

I was under the impression that the only way to get gainfully employed was 2L SA --> offer. It seems like any kind of 2L job that doesn't lead to a permanent offer is a deathtrap.

Also: "prestigious" to whom and for what purpose? I'm going to feel like I've done okay if I salvage my horrible underperformance with regard to BigLaw and get market-ish midlaw. Anything to pay off these loans and get on with saving the world.

[Anonymous User]

I was under the impression that the only way to get gainfully employed was 2L SA --> offer. It seems like any kind of 2L job that doesn't lead to a permanent offer is a deathtrap.

Struck out at OCI, landed government summer gig knowing there would be little chance of an offer, mass mailed over summer, headed to v20 firm next year.

[Anonymous User]

I was under the impression that the only way to get gainfully employed was 2L SA --> offer. It seems like any kind of 2L job that doesn't lead to a permanent offer is a deathtrap.

Struck out at OCI, landed government summer gig knowing there would be little chance of an offer, mass mailed over summer, headed to v20 firm next year.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I thought firms looked on non-SA 3Ls as hideous lepers. (I remember horrible stories about 3Ls being chased out of hospitality suites, and can only imagine the icy "We are only considering students in their first and second years." rejection letters.) What were your grades like?

This does make me want to go talk to a career person to see what government stuff is still open. I had thought it was just another way to stave off unemployment for a couple months, like a "research assistant" job post-graduation.

[Anonymous User]

What were your grades like?

Probably top quarter after 2L at a T10 school.

Generally, firms weren't interested, but I had a few interviews and one paid off. I'm just one data point...

[Anonymous User]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I thought firms looked on non-SA 3Ls as hideous lepers. (I remember horrible stories about 3Ls being chased out of hospitality suites, and can only imagine the icy "We are only considering students in their first and second years." rejection letters.) What were your grades like?

This does make me want to go talk to a career person to see what government stuff is still open. I had thought it was just another way to stave off unemployment for a couple months, like a "research assistant" job post-graduation.

Correct this misconception. I know plenty of 3Ls who did not have biglaw for 2L summer and who scored 3L OCI offers. Very nice 3L offers.

I'm not sure whether this trend will continue, though. It could be because firms cut back too much last summer and eventually ended up under-staffed. If that's the case, there's no reason to believe that they'll have "cut back" to a similar extent for next summer, such that they'll need to resort to 3L OCI again.

[JazzOne]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I thought firms looked on non-SA 3Ls as hideous lepers. (I remember horrible stories about 3Ls being chased out of hospitality suites, and can only imagine the icy "We are only considering students in their first and second years." rejection letters.) What were your grades like?

This does make me want to go talk to a career person to see what government stuff is still open. I had thought it was just another way to stave off unemployment for a couple months, like a "research assistant" job post-graduation.

Correct this misconception. I know plenty of 3Ls who did not have biglaw for 2L summer and who scored 3L OCI offers. Very nice 3L offers.

I'm not sure whether this trend will continue, though. It could be because firms cut back too much last summer and eventually ended up under-staffed. If that's the case, there's no reason to believe that they'll have "cut back" to a similar extent for next summer, such that they'll need to resort to 3L OCI again.

Interesting theory. I'm a 2L with an SA offer, and my firm interviewed a lot of 3Ls this year. I was kind of confused as to why they did that, but your explanation makes as much sense as any.

FYI: I'm not a CCN student, just interested in OCI stories.

[Anonymous User]

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I thought firms looked on non-SA 3Ls as hideous lepers. (I remember horrible stories about 3Ls being chased out of hospitality suites, and can only imagine the icy "We are only considering students in their first and second years." rejection letters.) What were your grades like?

This does make me want to go talk to a career person to see what government stuff is still open. I had thought it was just another way to stave off unemployment for a couple months, like a "research assistant" job post-graduation.

Correct this misconception. I know plenty of 3Ls who did not have biglaw for 2L summer and who scored 3L OCI offers. Very nice 3L offers.

I'm not sure whether this trend will continue, though. It could be because firms cut back too much last summer and eventually ended up under-staffed. If that's the case, there's no reason to believe that they'll have "cut back" to a similar extent for next summer, such that they'll need to resort to 3L OCI again.

The economy may have picked up a bit more and they need more help, or firms realize that an understaffed class means they will just have to spend more money competing for lateral associates in a few years.

Regardless, there are still some 3L options open, but good 2L grades are necessary. The people I know who got them really did well (in non-fluff classes) plus had a lot of luck.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Lots of firms expanded 3L hiring this year to account for having cut back too much in the summer. These include firms that traditionally do very little 3L hiring (i.e., Sidley Chicago). Also because some firms did 3L hiring, other firms also had o do 3L hiring, because their SAs got poached.

TBH, I would not expect the 3L market to be as robust next year as it was this year. CO 2011 had it harder in the first go-around than CO 2012 people.

[Anonymous User]

TBH, I would not expect the 3L market to be as robust next year as it was this year. CO 2011 had it harder in the first go-around than CO 2012 people.

I wouldn't conclude that just yet. From what I've observed, more callbacks went around, but not enough offers to make a huge different. The more callbacks move is a credited one for firms these days; they don't want to have to return to the pool and unreject people, etc. if they don't get the yield they want.

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide whether to accept a mid-market firm that pays b/w 100-120k or to keep gunning for something else. That something else could be a higher paying firm (at least 125-135) or a govt/PI job.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action would be if I want to gun for a biglaw gig 3L year? Is accepting mid-law pretty much going to resign me to that "tier" and lower, or is it possible to get biglaw gig next year if I kick ass grades-wise? Would doing govt or "prestigious" PI serve me better for trying to get a gig at 3L OCI?

I feel like I should be pretty happy with the prospect of making six figures in my mid-20's, but it's seriously depressing to know that a lot of my peers with similar grades are going to be making 160 along with better exit opportunities down the road.

[Anonymous User]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

[Aqualibrium]

Trying to decide whether to accept a mid-market firm that pays b/w 100-120k or to keep gunning for something else. That something else could be a higher paying firm (at least 125-135) or a govt/PI job.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action would be if I want to gun for a biglaw gig 3L year? Is accepting mid-law pretty much going to resign me to that "tier" and lower, or is it possible to get biglaw gig next year if I kick ass grades-wise? Would doing govt or "prestigious" PI serve me better for trying to get a gig at 3L OCI?

I feel like I should be pretty happy with the prospect of making six figures in my mid-20's, but it's seriously depressing to know that a lot of my peers with similar grades are going to be making 160 along with better exit opportunities down the road.

Your 120k in the mid market is probably more than their 160k in major markets (except maybe Texas which isn't really considered one of the major markets) after taxes and COL.

Stop being a dbag and accept the offer if you like the firm.

[Renzo]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap.

CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

[JG Hall]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap.

CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

CLS used to outperform everyone in presTTTige biglaw placement.

Sigh.

Those were the days.

[UnTouChablE]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap.

CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

hahahhahha, not saying I agree, but well said. hahahahha

[Anonymous User]

Trying to decide whether to accept a mid-market firm that pays b/w 100-120k or to keep gunning for something else. That something else could be a higher paying firm (at least 125-135) or a govt/PI job.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action would be if I want to gun for a biglaw gig 3L year? Is accepting mid-law pretty much going to resign me to that "tier" and lower, or is it possible to get biglaw gig next year if I kick ass grades-wise? Would doing govt or "prestigious" PI serve me better for trying to get a gig at 3L OCI?

I feel like I should be pretty happy with the prospect of making six figures in my mid-20's, but it's seriously depressing to know that a lot of my peers with similar grades are going to be making 160 along with better exit opportunities down the road.

Your 120k in the mid market is probably more than their 160k in major markets (except maybe Texas which isn't really considered one of the major markets) after taxes and COL.

Stop being a dbag and accept the offer if you like the firm.

my market = almost same CoL as NYC and at this firm I'd most likely end up doing lit when I want to do transactional work.

[Aqualibrium]

Trying to decide whether to accept a mid-market firm that pays b/w 100-120k or to keep gunning for something else. That something else could be a higher paying firm (at least 125-135) or a govt/PI job.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action would be if I want to gun for a biglaw gig 3L year? Is accepting mid-law pretty much going to resign me to that "tier" and lower, or is it possible to get biglaw gig next year if I kick ass grades-wise? Would doing govt or "prestigious" PI serve me better for trying to get a gig at 3L OCI?

I feel like I should be pretty happy with the prospect of making six figures in my mid-20's, but it's seriously depressing to know that a lot of my peers with similar grades are going to be making 160 along with better exit opportunities down the road.

Your 120k in the mid market is probably more than their 160k in major markets (except maybe Texas which isn't really considered one of the major markets) after taxes and COL.

Stop being a dbag and accept the offer if you like the firm.

my market = almost same CoL as NYC and at this firm I'd most likely end up doing lit when I want to do transactional work.

Hmmmm, and you currently have no other options? I don't think many of the bigger market firms you may be interested in are still hiring. You can try, but this might very well be the only thing you can get, unfortunately.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Trying to decide whether to accept a mid-market firm that pays b/w 100-120k or to keep gunning for something else. That something else could be a higher paying firm (at least 125-135) or a govt/PI job.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action would be if I want to gun for a biglaw gig 3L year? Is accepting mid-law pretty much going to resign me to that "tier" and lower, or is it possible to get biglaw gig next year if I kick ass grades-wise? Would doing govt or "prestigious" PI serve me better for trying to get a gig at 3L OCI?

I feel like I should be pretty happy with the prospect of making six figures in my mid-20's, but it's seriously depressing to know that a lot of my peers with similar grades are going to be making 160 along with better exit opportunities down the road.

Keep looking until you have to make a decision, but take the job if nothing else that you would prefer comes your way. Not worth gambling here. If you are getting ANY sense that the firm that made your offer is getting impatient, regardless of NALP guidelines, take the gig.
Your 120k in the mid market is probably more than their 160k in major markets (except maybe Texas which isn't really considered one of the major markets) after taxes and COL.

Stop being a dbag and accept the offer if you like the firm.

my market = almost same CoL as NYC and at this firm I'd most likely end up doing lit when I want to do transactional work.

[Anonymous User]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap.

CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

oh darn statistics

too bad there are actual numbers out there that make YOUR anecdotal arguments useless

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html


you can believe what you want BUT the numbers say something else

[Anonymous User]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap. .
CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

oh darn statistics

too bad there are actual numbers out there that make YOUR anecdotal arguments useless

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html


you can believe what you want BUT the numbers say something else

This is all pre-ITE data. Last year from what I could gather around 67% CLS students got biglaw from EIP, while NYU OCS reported 70%.

[Renzo]

not be a flame but why do people group Columbia with NYU and Chicago when all the data points to Columbia clearly outperforming both when it comes to biglaw placement?

correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that Columbia was the corporate law powerhouse and only rivaled by Harvard?

If you were trying "not to be a flame" a good way to start is by not posting anonymously, but I'll bite anyways.

You're wrong. CLS very slightly outperforms NYU in biglaw placement. UChi outperforms both with in terms of clerkships and academia, but has really suffered in the job market as compared to the other two since the economy went to crap.

CLS only rivals Harvard in the minds of the strivers there who didn't get in to Harvard.

oh darn statistics

too bad there are actual numbers out there that make YOUR anecdotal arguments useless

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html


you can believe what you want BUT the numbers say something else

Fool me once with your anonymous trolling, shame on you; fool me twice....

[duckfan00]

Hoping for any constructive feedback/advice from last year CCN 2L's without offers from OCI and what paths/strategies they took going into end of semester finals and winter break....