Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

You seem pretty pressed in this discussion tbh. Also not sure what's "lol" about this other than you trying to beg off suddenly.

You can sense whatever you want.

Regarding the "lol," it was more about your failure to respond to the actual substance of my previous comment:

And I never once suggested that subtext indicating normative convictions entailed calling for the firing of anyone.

I posited initially that there were normative considerations at play. Nothing anyone has commented since has provided any sensible reason to depart from that view, and emotional responses only confirm my initial impression.

[Anonymous User]

Relax; no need to name call. And no one is trying to be terrifying. One of the reasons we post here is to be able to frankly (and anonymously) discuss business dynamics inside firms. Maybe it's different wherever you are (doubt it) but I'm just reflecting the reality of the V25 I'm at. Being consistently unavailable, pushing back on work (when you're not billing a ton), not promptly responding to e-mail or calls is one of the big missteps you can make as a junior and it will get you pushed out over time--slowly during weird times like we're in now, but quickly when things are normal as I said in my first post. We can certainly dance around this & pretend it's not true if that's more to everyone's taste.

The simmering anger you feel witnessing juniors not needing to tongue butthole the way you did is very obvious and very entertaining.

The personal attacks make me feel like you're angry at someone you work with and are venting here, which is fine but kind of ironic. I don't think we disagree as much as you might think, just different values. But for the record I do take all 5 weeks of vacation every year and people are happy to cover for me when I do. Not sure if that's uncommon but it might help that I tend to be a hardworking "doormat" when I'm not away.

Not even remotely correct, but I'm again not surprised that you keep trying to rationalize me into some kind of lazy creep in defense of your mewling sycophancy.

The personal attacks are because certain anons here are presenting very attackable personalities. How am I supposed to restrain myself in such a target rich environment?

I guess it's one thing to be upset that the omnipresent fear of being fired hasn't been around for the last two years, but what kind of monster do you have to be to want people to get fired? Just to prove some point that sacrificing your late 20s to the panthern was, indeed, what needed to be done? Pound sand dudes

Glad someone gets it.

I never "tongued butthole." At what point do these personal attacks that you continue to throw at everyone get you temp banned? Most people ITT, on different sides of the issue, are trying to at least keep it civil.

Edit: Also, you're projecting terribly right now. I don't feel any simmering anger. Mentoring juniors is one of the most rewarding aspects of my job; I'm not the caricature of some aggrieved senior associate you think you're talking to.

Is this analingus normative or descriptive? Not sure the pretext here.

[Anonymous User]

This thread was better when we were talking about school prestige. Also S >>>>>>> Harvard UniversiTTTy, no cap

[glitched]

Sweet DPW matched. Good shit. Now give us spring bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Why are the juniors so obsessed with raises? Genuinely curious.

Is it really that difficult for you to figure out? It's not rocket science. Many if not most of us are new to large paychecks and an additional increase of $5-10K is something we care about despite your opinion about how much we should care about the post-tax difference.

Tl;dr -- juniors are also money hungry and care about the potential of additional grands. Shocker.

[Anonymous User]

You seem pretty pressed in this discussion tbh. Also not sure what's "lol" about this other than you trying to beg off suddenly.

You can sense whatever you want.

Regarding the "lol," it was more about your failure to respond to the actual substance of my previous comment:

And I never once suggested that subtext indicating normative convictions entailed calling for the firing of anyone.

I posited initially that there were normative considerations at play. Nothing anyone has commented since has provided any sensible reason to depart from that view, and emotional responses only confirm my initial impression.

Not the person you've been arguing with but statements like "you can sense whatever you want." Similar to "you can think whatever you want!" = auto white flag. Let's go back to shitting on firms. I feel like you work at white & case.

[Anonymous User]

Juniors care about money of course. Everyone cares about money. But realistically there's no way the starting salary will go up further beyond the current DPW scale.

[Anonymous User]

This thread was better when we were talking about school prestige. Also S >>>>>>> Harvard UniversiTTTy, no cap

Why we even comparing Harvard to S when the only discussions it deserves are Chicago Columbia and NYU. H had never been much more selective than Uchi/CLS, and now their outcomes are also in the same tier with Uchi even having a slight edge. It’s clearly YS with an enormous gap with the rest of the schools at this point. It’s only the Harvard kids who wont shut up about “YSH”

[Anonymous User]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

[Anonymous User]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

[Anonymous User]

Getting back to the purpose of this thread. McDermott raised again to match DPW's scale.

[Anonymous User]

I hope no one rounds up. $396.5k is a legitimately hilarious number.

[Anonymous User]

Delete

[Anonymous User]

Why are the juniors so obsessed with raises? Genuinely curious.

I think it’s natural for anyone, within Big Law or any other type of job, to want more money. It’s one thing if juniors starting marching in the streets demanding more money, which would obviously be ridiculous, but anyone wanting more money if a firm would be willing to provide it generally is not ridiculous. I completely agree with the argument that juniors need to stop complaining about the workload and maybe annoying nuances of working in big law. People would kill to make as much money as people are making now and would gladly do anything necessary even answer an email at 11 at night for the opportunity to make that much money. I think they should have a conversation with immigrants that come to this country working three jobs and sleeping four hours a night and that puts things into perspective. But I think generally wanting more money is reasonable for anyone.

[Anonymous User]

What's the chance of getting any special bonuses this year in addition to the year-end bonus?

[Anonymous User]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

Even the worst junior NBA players make 950k and that doesn’t include per diems when traveling and free food that is provided, plus they get a few days off each week and months off each year. Why would anyone go to law school?

[Anonymous User]

What's the chance of getting any special bonuses this year in addition to the year-end bonus?

When was the fall bonus announced last year?

[objctnyrhnr]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

Even the worst junior NBA players make 950k and that doesn’t include per diems when traveling and free food that is provided, plus they get a few days off each week and months off each year. Why would anyone go to law school?

Nice.

[Anonymous User]

I hope no one rounds up. $396.5k is a legitimately hilarious number.

Well that is the point. It’s a brilliant move. DPW throws about ten thousand (not an insignificant amount of money) more to become a “market leader” like everyone has expected. But DPW then leaves the door open with that awkward number that could easily be rounded up. If any firm does round up, that’s the counter match. It’s the equivalent of DPW saying: “please stop but also take this easy out.”

The timing sent a clear message: Milbank is not a peer in preftige.

The amount said: our attorneys aren't leaving to go to Milbank already, and certainly not for less money.

Some other poster already said it, the fight was never over entry level compensation. It was over mid-level talent. Why waste more money raising junior associate salaries?

[Anonymous User]

I hope no one rounds up. $396.5k is a legitimately hilarious number.

This sounds more like the result of some random senior partner who refused to pay non-partners $400k base because "back in my day..."

[Sackboy]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

The classic "take outlier outcome that is available for very few, gloss is up with some lies, pretend like everyone would be interested in [insert career path], and pretend like it's an attainable outcome for everyone." Love to see it.

Back on topic, $396.5k or w/e the number is at currently is hilarious.

[Anonymous User]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

Even the worst junior NBA players make 950k and that doesn’t include per diems when traveling and free food that is provided, plus they get a few days off each week and months off each year. Why would anyone go to law school?

fucking exactly

[Anonymous User]

I hope no one rounds up. $396.5k is a legitimately hilarious number.

Well that is the point. It’s a brilliant move. DPW throws about ten thousand (not an insignificant amount of money) more to become a “market leader” like everyone has expected. But DPW then leaves the door open with that awkward number that could easily be rounded up. If any firm does round up, that’s the counter match. It’s the equivalent of DPW saying: “please stop but also take this easy out.”

The timing sent a clear message: Milbank is not a peer in preftige.

The amount said: our attorneys aren't leaving to go to Milbank already, and certainly not for less money.

Some other poster already said it, the fight was never over entry level compensation. It was over mid-level talent. Why waste more money raising junior associate salaries?

Do you work at DPW?

[Anonymous User]

The timing sent a clear message: Milbank is not a peer in preftige.

The amount said: our attorneys aren't leaving to go to Milbank already, and certainly not for less money.

Yet DPW felt the pressure to match Milbank's defining salary scale. One is a trendsetter, the other is a follower (while trying to one-up by a tiny bit).

[2013]

SDEs at google with a one year online masters or bootcamp certificate who work 9-5 for 5 days a week are making 300k nowadays. Why shouldn’t lawyers get paid more?

A lot more students will just choose Leetcode over the LSAT.

Even the worst junior NBA players make 950k and that doesn’t include per diems when traveling and free food that is provided, plus they get a few days off each week and months off each year. Why would anyone go to law school?

Nice.

I do think people have a very skewed idea of what most SWEs/SDEs at Google make. $300k TC isn’t realistic until a few years out, and even then, nearly half is equity that vests in 4 years. There are threads with Google engineers that discuss this.

And the $700k-$1m is really a small group of folks who are pretty senior.