Fall bonuses Forum

[JusticeSquee]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Yep, money now is better than money later. K&E fucked up bigly.

[TigerIsBack]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

[sinfiery]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

[POPTOP]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

no. associates can take the year end bonus then quit. why would you leave two months out from an above market payout when you could just quit December 16 and triple your money? this isn't five dimensional chess. it's just a miscalculation. an embarrassingly public one, for sure, but that's all it is. they are going to cave or make a public statement of some kind that is better than what they've put out. by the end of the week when all major ny firms have matched they won't have a choice.

[POPTOP]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

i am surprised that the piddly little offices of the british firms in NY, which no one in their right mind takes seriously, are capable of matching in the face of what will be open revolt from the mothership in london. credit to those tea-drinking blighters - they've got gumption.

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

i am surprised that the piddly little offices of the british firms in NY, which no one in their right mind takes seriously, are capable of matching in the face of what will be open revolt from the mothership in london. credit to those tea-drinking blighters - they've got gumption.

This is quality shade.

[legalpotato]

HUMULIATION

I am from a flyover state and had told my family "I got a job at Kirkland". They were skeptical: "I've never heard of that firm before, is it a boutique? A lit shop?" I assured them that Kirkland was a super-elite firm, a true white shoe, that it was the most profitable law firm in the world, and does more M&A than anyone else.

With this recent news, my family has all but disowned me. Once my mom found out about the no-fall-bonus, she let me know that she was always skeptical of my claims that K&E was a "super-elite" and that I am a "lying piece of sh*t who has embarrassed the family." My grandma is pissed that she told all of her friends her grandson works at a "wall street firm," but after the no-fall-bonus news, her friends at the nursing house looked into K&E more and now mock her that her grandson doesn't even work at a New York firm (despite the fact that we do have a large office there). My brother-in-law has been getting harassed by his co-workers at Billy Jo's Turkey Manure Farm about me tellin "tall tales" to the point that he doesn't even want to go to work anymore. My dad's brother, whose son is an assistant meth cook and has 3 teeth, told him I am embarrassing the family and actually asked my dad to look into emancipation. My doorman won't even hold the door open for me. My life is in tatters and I am struggling to get out of bed in the morning.

Does anyone know if Freshfields will take a lowly K&E lateral? This isn't even about the money any more, it is about my self respect and restoring my family's honor.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Agreed, and I’ve been surprised that on two calls now, SPs have brought up the bonuses unprompted. I think the firm is aware that associates are not happy with their move here. My hope is that they will more than make up for it; I really think Kirkland will be harmed in recruiting if it’s 2019 bonus scale + DPW fall bonuses slapped on top - or even less than that.

[droit]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/freshfields-bonuses/

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

i am surprised that the piddly little offices of the british firms in NY, which no one in their right mind takes seriously, are capable of matching in the face of what will be open revolt from the mothership in london. credit to those tea-drinking blighters - they've got gumption.

I somehow drank the kool-aid (tea)? I really wanted a job at Freshfields as a 2L -- don't know why. was my top firm. Did not get offer. Ended up at a V5 instead, so now sometimes I like to think shade like this as a form of bitter retribution.

(Two of the partners who interviewed me were not wearing socks, I would add). They did do this thing I found hilarious where they had the cocktail/mixer hour BEFORE the callback interviews.

[Anonymous User]

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/freshfields-bonuses/

Matched in NY, SV and DC. Market moving announcement. Freshfields V10 next time I fill out the survey

[NoLongerALurker]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

I've always found this tension between midlevel retention and giving them the keys to loan-paid-off freedom to be one of the more fascinating things to think about re: bonuses in general.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

I've always found this tension between midlevel retention and giving them the keys to loan-paid-off freedom to be one of the more fascinating things to think about re: bonuses in general.

Yeah but at least if you pay them, they won't leave you for a competitor. That's the real threat.

[POPTOP]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

I've always found this tension between midlevel retention and giving them the keys to loan-paid-off freedom to be one of the more fascinating things to think about re: bonuses in general.

Yeah but at least if you pay them, they won't leave you for a competitor. That's the real threat.

Correct. As I’ve said elsewhere is this thread, no one cares about first years / loans / anything else. This is retention, pure and simple, for the teams that have been clocking 300 hours a month since March.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

I've always found this tension between midlevel retention and giving them the keys to loan-paid-off freedom to be one of the more fascinating things to think about re: bonuses in general.

Yeah but at least if you pay them, they won't leave you for a competitor. That's the real threat.

Correct. As I’ve said elsewhere is this thread, no one cares about first years / loans / anything else. This is retention, pure and simple, for the teams that have been clocking 300 hours a month since March.

Then why not, for firms that fall outside say the V5, just pay fall bonuses to those associates who have billed a shit ton?

[Anonymous User]

Then why not, for firms that fall outside say the V5, just pay fall bonuses to those associates who have billed a shit ton?

There are often hours requirements for bonuses and special bonuses as you start going down the rankings.

[TatteredDignity]

Does anyone want to engage in some rank speculation about whether these bonuses will make it to Chicago? I don't think any firm with a Chicago presence has announced yet. Kirkland was a huge bummer in that regard. Sidley is probably our best hope, but they usually move when Kirkland does.

[WW25]

Does anyone want to engage in some rank speculation about whether these bonuses will make it to Chicago? I don't think any firm with a Chicago presence has announced yet. Kirkland was a huge bummer in that regard. Sidley is probably our best hope, but they usually move when Kirkland does.

Hopefully if enough NY firms move then Sidley will match across its US offices (maybe wishful thinking idk)

[Anonymous User]

Then why not, for firms that fall outside say the V5, just pay fall bonuses to those associates who have billed a shit ton?

There are often hours requirements for bonuses and special bonuses as you start going down the rankings.

Hours requirements have nothing to do with the rankings and are not necessarily bad. V50 firms like Shearman have no hours requirements. But many high-billing associates there apparently don't get full bonuses for arbitrary reasons. Some associates get full bonuses in years when they actually billed less than in the previous years during which they got only partial bonuses despite billing more hours. Top firms like DPW and STB have no hours requirements because their associates will work a ton anyway such that even if they had hours requirements, everyone will meet them. Having low enough hours requirements could be better than not having any such requirements but being arbitrary with bonuses.

[NoLongerALurker]

Then why not, for firms that fall outside say the V5, just pay fall bonuses to those associates who have billed a shit ton?

There are often hours requirements for bonuses and special bonuses as you start going down the rankings.

Hours requirements have nothing to do with the rankings and are not necessarily bad. V50 firms like Shearman have no hours requirements. But many high-billing associates there apparently don't get full bonuses for arbitrary reasons. Some associates get full bonuses in years when they actually billed less than in the previous years during which they got only partial bonuses despite billing more hours. Top firms like DPW and STB have no hours requirements because their associates will work a ton anyway such that even if they had hours requirements, everyone will meet them. Having low enough hours requirements could be better than not having any such requirements but being arbitrary with bonuses.

People always say this, but it's worth noting that it seems like every V10's annual town hall includes an "average" hours billed among associates that end up, as far as I've seen, hovering in or around 1750-1900. If I were a corporate counsel I'd be hesitant to hire a firm with hours minimums --- seems like it's just begging for associates to be padding their hours (if dishonest) or triple-checking when a double-check will do (if more honest).

[Anonymous User]

People always say this, but it's worth noting that it seems like every V10's annual town hall includes an "average" hours billed among associates that end up, as far as I've seen, hovering in or around 1750-1900. If I were a corporate counsel I'd be hesitant to hire a firm with hours minimums --- seems like it's just begging for associates to be padding their hours (if dishonest) or triple-checking when a double-check will do (if more honest).

Unless billable hours is not a metric for advancement (it is), I highly doubt the type of personalities that end up at V5s are less likely to quadrable check work that only needs to be double checked than firms with hours minimums.

[TigerIsBack]

Then why not, for firms that fall outside say the V5, just pay fall bonuses to those associates who have billed a shit ton?

There are often hours requirements for bonuses and special bonuses as you start going down the rankings.

Hours requirements have nothing to do with the rankings and are not necessarily bad. V50 firms like Shearman have no hours requirements. But many high-billing associates there apparently don't get full bonuses for arbitrary reasons. Some associates get full bonuses in years when they actually billed less than in the previous years during which they got only partial bonuses despite billing more hours. Top firms like DPW and STB have no hours requirements because their associates will work a ton anyway such that even if they had hours requirements, everyone will meet them. Having low enough hours requirements could be better than not having any such requirements but being arbitrary with bonuses.

People always say this, but it's worth noting that it seems like every V10's annual town hall includes an "average" hours billed among associates that end up, as far as I've seen, hovering in or around 1750-1900. If I were a corporate counsel I'd be hesitant to hire a firm with hours minimums --- seems like it's just begging for associates to be padding their hours (if dishonest) or triple-checking when a double-check will do (if more honest).

Even without an hours requirement I'm not sure you solve that issue because you will still have gunner associates looking to have the highest hours in their class, or non-gunner associates that just want their hours to be high enough so they don't stand out or raise eyebrows.

[TigerIsBack]

More importantly what firms are going to be announcing soon? Cravath? Skadden? Other v20/v30? I never remember who's an early mover on these things beyond the first handful.

[s1m4]

Kirkland is looking so bad at this point. Major strategic misstep on their part. It doesn't matter if they're going to "true up" at the end of the year; people are getting paid NOW at rival / peer shops.

Not at all defending Kirkland bc I think this is a horrible move by them regardless of their rationale, but if these bonuses are targeted at midlevel rentention, do you think this could be their attempt to keep midlevels for a few more months (vs. taking the risk that some decide to take their October bonus and head for greener pastures before december)?

There's no way I shirk $50k+ bonus to leave a few months early as a midlevel. Do we have any confirmation for the freshfields match? Definitely the biggest indicator for what the market will be doing as a whole.

i am surprised that the piddly little offices of the british firms in NY, which no one in their right mind takes seriously, are capable of matching in the face of what will be open revolt from the mothership in london. credit to those tea-drinking blighters - they've got gumption.

I somehow drank the kool-aid (tea)? I really wanted a job at Freshfields as a 2L -- don't know why. was my top firm. Did not get offer. Ended up at a V5 instead, so now sometimes I like to think shade like this as a form of bitter retribution.

(Two of the partners who interviewed me were not wearing socks, I would add). They did do this thing I found hilarious where they had the cocktail/mixer hour BEFORE the callback interviews.

I bet you they were wearing socks but the super low cut ones that make it look like they were not wearing socks.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone want to engage in some rank speculation about whether these bonuses will make it to Chicago? I don't think any firm with a Chicago presence has announced yet. Kirkland was a huge bummer in that regard. Sidley is probably our best hope, but they usually move when Kirkland does.

LW always acts slow on comp raises but generally always acts. Freshfields actually puts a lot of pressure on LW given the London competition, and Irell in terms of West Coast. There's a chance that we pull a Kirkland, but I'd bet on us giving fall bonus.