NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[bk1]

This may at first seem to be out of topic, but I can’t believe what I’m reading about the handful of firms like Shearman & Sterling, which now have a 2400 billable hour requirement. That’s about 350-400 hours above average, meaning, assuming 24 holiday days subtracted from the 260 Mon-Fri days per year, I’ve got to work almost 2 hours longer per day, while my buddies are already relaxing over a cold one. . Do I even want such a job if offered?

Revising my spreadsheet to include a column for billable hour requirement.

Some firms have expectations that are higher than 2400 and the stated requirement is often meaningless. Yes this kind of matters but if you need biglaw to pay off debts then beggars can't be choosers. Like fit, you can axe these firms once you have offers to choose from.

[lgleye]

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[Georgia Avenue]

2400 billable requirement? lol NYC

[bk1]

2400 billable requirement? lol NYC

This. Also, wtf are you doing subtracting out weekends and holidays? Associates quite often work on both those things.

[lgleye]

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[Pokemon]

2400 billable requirement? lol NYC

This. Also, wtf are you doing subtracting out weekends and holidays? Associates quite often work on both those things.

Shoulda followed my cousins into med school.....they're probably laughing their asses off at me now. Oh well, ObamaCare will fix them.

You are suffering from a horrible case of the grass is greener on the other side. First of all, following your cousins is not that easy, you would have had to have been on a pre-med track. And being pre-med can be quite tough.
Second, being an MD is a ton of work, particularly on your first years when you are doing your residency for a joke of a pay.

[IAFG]

This may at first seem to be out of topic, but I can’t believe what I’m reading about the handful of firms like Shearman & Sterling, which now have a 2400 billable hour requirement. That’s about 350-400 hours above average, meaning, assuming 24 holiday days subtracted from the 260 Mon-Fri days per year, I’ve got to work almost 2 hours longer per day, while my buddies are already relaxing over a cold one. . Do I even want such a job if offered?

Revising my spreadsheet to include a column for billable hour requirement.

I am totally sure that the numbers firms cop to have no impact on who is enjoying cold ones when. I don't even know why they bother posting anything.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

Surely everyone realizes that "billable hours" and "actual hours worked" are two totally different things? It's incredibly hard to assess what 2400 hours means when it's not clear what the billing efficiency at Shearman is.

[Icculus]

2400 billable requirement? lol NYC

This. Also, wtf are you doing subtracting out weekends and holidays? Associates quite often work on both those things.

Shoulda followed my cousins into med school.....they're probably laughing their asses off at me now. Oh well, ObamaCare will fix them.

You are suffering from a horrible case of the grass is greener on the other side. First of all, following your cousins is not that easy, you would have had to have been on a pre-med track. And being pre-med can be quite tough.
Second, being an MD is a ton of work, particularly on your first years when you are doing your residency for a joke of a pay.

Woooosh.

[bdubs]

Surely everyone realizes that "billable hours" and "actual hours worked" are two totally different things? It's incredibly hard to assess what 2400 hours means when it's not clear what the billing efficiency at Shearman is.

I've gotten the impression that very few firms force you to sit around while you're not billing. I don't know if there is such a thing a firm's "billing efficiency," it's really just how efficient each associate is with his/her own time. Then again my firm technically has no formal billables requirement but everyone is still north of 2000.

[lgleye]

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[Georgia Avenue]

btw, as to those rising 3L's doing SA's now, how's the stress presently, and do you envision getting buried? Just want an idea of what to expect if I get lucky enough to land a position for next year. (Be careful what you wish for?)

It's all going to depend on your firm. You'll probably have enough assignments to keep you busy wherever you go, though. Some firms will take it further than that, some won't.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

[homestyle28]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

[bk1]

GPA/class-rank breakdown after 1L:

4.00+ - top 3-5 people
3.85+ - top 10%
3.75+ - top 15%
3.65+ - top 25%
3.50+ - top 35%
3.30 - 3.40 - median
3.20 - 3.30 - slightly below median
3.00 - 3.20 - quite below median

[Icculus]

GPA/class-rank breakdown after 1L:

4.00+ - top 3-5 people
3.85+ - top 10%
3.75+ - top 15%
3.65+ - top 25%
3.50+ - top 35%
3.30 - 3.40 - median
3.20 - 3.30 - slightly below median
3.00 - 3.20 - quite below median

Everytime I see this I am blown away by how much higher these numbers get 2L and later.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

thanks homestyle! anyone have any insight into NYC? currently looking at Allen & Overy, Freshfields, Fried Frank, Linklaters and Milbank. any other ones that i should put on top of my bidlist?

[homestyle28]

GPA/class-rank breakdown after 1L:

4.00+ - top 3-5 people
3.85+ - top 10%
3.75+ - top 15%
3.65+ - top 25%
3.50+ - top 35%
3.30 - 3.40 - median
3.20 - 3.30 - slightly below median
3.00 - 3.20 - quite below median

Everytime I see this I am blown away by how much higher these numbers get 2L and later.

If you're an idiot like me you can keep taking curved classes and watch your rank plumit while GPA holds steady.

The lesson: don't do what Johnny don't does.

[terriers]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

thanks homestyle! anyone have any insight into NYC? currently looking at Allen & Overy, Freshfields, Fried Frank, Linklaters and Milbank. any other ones that i should put on top of my bidlist?

Based purely on GPA, seems like maybe consider Proskauer, Weil (maybe not a great idea after today's news?), Kaye Scholer and Dechert?

[bjsesq]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

Kirkland is well within reach. So are Winston and Jenner.

[Georgia Avenue]

Based purely on GPA, seems like maybe consider Proskauer, Weil (maybe not a great idea after today's news?), Kaye Scholer and Dechert?

Meh. At least Weil isn't laying off first years.

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

Kirkland is well within reach. So are Winston and Jenner.

really? at least from the median GPA sheets the career office sent out, Kirkland, Winston and Jenner had ridiculous medians (>3.7). how is it possible that they're within reach? (not trying to argue, just wondering what you're basing your opinion on)

[terriers]

Based purely on GPA, seems like maybe consider Proskauer, Weil (maybe not a great idea after today's news?), Kaye Scholer and Dechert?

Meh. At least Weil isn't laying off first years.

Oh that's good, wonder if associates got laid off on performance, by practice area, or whether it was random. I guess an explicit layoff would be much easier to explain than a stealth layoff, so maybe they did those people a favor.

Trying to figure out if potential layoffs are even something we should be thinking about right now in the bidding process or whether we should only think about it if we get more than one offer.

[basilseal]

Hey guys, would appreciate any advice on what firms in NYC and/or Chicago I should be targeting in the top 10 for my bidlist with a mid-3.5 (is that top 1/3? not sure...)? Thx

3.5ish is bottom cutoff of top 1/3. I can speak to Chicago a little: Katten is a probably a solid starting point. Sidley is a bit of a reach, depending on your softs. Reed Smith and Drinker Biddle probably should be on there somewhere, though they have smaller classes. There's nobody that you absolutely can't bid with a 3.5, but if you're softs are especially weak (i.e no business world WE or gov't work), then you've got to think a bit more about it. Also, as someone in a similar boat last year, and I know us 3Ls are harping on this, but you shouldn't feel too comfortable, esp if you really want Chicago, so make sure you're planning on mass mailing.

should you want more tailored advice, feel free to pm me

Kirkland is well within reach. So are Winston and Jenner.

really? at least from the median GPA sheets the career office sent out, Kirkland, Winston and Jenner had ridiculous medians (>3.7). how is it possible that they're within reach? (not trying to argue, just wondering what you're basing your opinion on)

Have spoken with folks at multiple firms (incl. some listed here) and confirmed that you're in contention at those levels. I wouldn't even worry about the "required" GPA floors some list.

[Anonymous User]

Any advice for someone around median targeting CA & NY? What's the best way to maximize interviews?

here's what I have so far:
1. attend all the job fairs
2. mass mail mid july-ish
3. reach out to any possible connections / aka netwerk
4. bid smart @ oci (could use advice)