NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Are there people who think this may be the new normal? Some firms at 190, some at 180? I understand that firms have to meet and discuss, but the theory that firms have to have their committees reconvene post-cravath seems strange. Last time there were raises, no one knew what cravath was doing and they matched quickly.

I just would’ve thought firms would have agreed to a range of salaries (kind of like those who keep saying KE and whatever had always been prepared to go to 215).

Also, anyone think Greenberg Traurig will match in NY after that email?

No.

[Anonymous User]

I grew up in an average 5-bedroom house (we had 3 kids, so 5 bedrooms isn’t that many of you have a guestroom). Nothing special about the house. The current Zillow estimate for my childhood home is $2.5 million. I’m not saying I grew up middle class. But in my bubble, that was middle class. You need a lot of money to maintain a house like that. $500k for a house and family doesn’t leave much for splurging.

lmao if you're not trolling, you're the dumbest person I've ever met. Some of us grew up middle class in $150k houses with 2-3 as many people as bedrooms, and parents that had a combined income of $80k. $500k anywhere is upper-upper class. It's in the top half of the top 1% of income for every single demographic group.

[Anonymous User]

[Anonymous User]

Six v50 firms will match (including bonus) tomorrow, between 1:30 p.m. and 4 p.m. Eastern time.

[Anonymous User]

Six v50 firms will match (including bonus) tomorrow, between 1:30 p.m. and 4 p.m. Eastern time.

[Anonymous User]

The CT person is either a troll or completely out of touch with reality. Why is she/he even concerned with a $10K raise? If $500k in the 90s was a middle class income to her/him, $10K is chump change that could only excite the peasants.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

Of all the garbage that’s been written on here the past week, I’m surprised that’s what got to you.

NY to 500k

[Anonymous User]

I'm enjoying it
Not like there's Jack shit else to talk about
If Skadden goes to 500k I'm sure ATL will pick it up

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

The mods suck and don't do shit.

But I agree, just ban anyone not talking about raises.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

The mods suck and don't do shit.

But I agree, just ban anyone not talking about raises.

Excuse us for trying to contextualize developments.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

The mods suck and don't do shit.

But I agree, just ban anyone not talking about raises.

Excuse us for trying to contextualize developments.

You're excused. Now, GTFO.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

The mods suck and don't do shit.

But I agree, just ban anyone not talking about raises.

Excuse us for trying to contextualize developments.

You're excused. Now, GTFO.

Believe me, I want to leave, but I just can't bear the thought of another claustrophobic night in my 14-bedroom shack.

[Anonymous User]

You're not out of middle class until you can comfortable afford economy plus on all flights and stay in 4 star+ hotels while traveling.

[oblig.lawl.ref]

It all really depends. A single associate making 235k is easily upper middle class.

However, a family of 5? That’s middle class.

My parents always told me that you need roughly 100k per person in your household to live comfortably. So, for a family of 5, to live the comfortable lifestyle I grew up with, my dad had to earn ~500k. This was in the early 90s. My dad made more than that and we still lived a very middle class life (nothing lavish).

I also grew up in an expensive CT town, so it probably differs from someone living in Toledo or something.

I grew up in Stamford bro, if you're living middle class in Greenwich, Westport, or something like that, then you're definitely upper middle class.

As someone said above, compared to everyone else in my Greenwich/Darien town, I grew up very middle class/average. I’m not saying it’s middle class compared to Stamford. I didn’t live in Stamford.

I grew up in an average 5-bedroom house (we had 3 kids, so 5 bedrooms isn’t that many of you have a guestroom). Nothing special about the house. The current Zillow estimate for my childhood home is $2.5 million. I’m not saying I grew up middle class. But in my bubble, that was middle class. You need a lot of money to maintain a house like that. $500k for a house and family doesn’t leave much for splurging.

This is just awesome. I just love knowing people like this probably exist.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

C’mon man, you can’t blame previous anons for calling out this idea that nyc associates are somehow in the same (or higher lmao) socio-economic class as TX associates

[Anonymous User]

It all really depends. A single associate making 235k is easily upper middle class.

However, a family of 5? That’s middle class.

My parents always told me that you need roughly 100k per person in your household to live comfortably. So, for a family of 5, to live the comfortable lifestyle I grew up with, my dad had to earn ~500k. This was in the early 90s. My dad made more than that and we still lived a very middle class life (nothing lavish).

I also grew up in an expensive CT town, so it probably differs from someone living in Toledo or something.

I grew up in Stamford bro, if you're living middle class in Greenwich, Westport, or something like that, then you're definitely upper middle class.

As someone said above, compared to everyone else in my Greenwich/Darien town, I grew up very middle class/average. I’m not saying it’s middle class compared to Stamford. I didn’t live in Stamford.

I grew up in an average 5-bedroom house (we had 3 kids, so 5 bedrooms isn’t that many of you have a guestroom). Nothing special about the house. The current Zillow estimate for my childhood home is $2.5 million. I’m not saying I grew up middle class. But in my bubble, that was middle class. You need a lot of money to maintain a house like that. $500k for a house and family doesn’t leave much for splurging.

This is just awesome. I just love knowing people like this probably exist.

Probably troll.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

C’mon man, you can’t blame previous anons for calling out this idea that nyc associates are somehow in the same (or higher lmao) socio-economic class as TX associates

I haven’t followed every page of the thread but I don’t think anyone is saying that a NYC associate somehow reaches up to the same class as a TX associate. That would be stupid. They are saying that there are some pros to being in nyc that should apply a little bit. As a previous anon put it, it’s better than Jersey.

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

C’mon man, you can’t blame previous anons for calling out this idea that nyc associates are somehow in the same (or higher lmao) socio-economic class as TX associates

Again, taken out of context. Nobody said it's the same. It's just that you can't compare discretionary income and call it a day. Good thing lawyers still have the ability to use reductio ad absurdum arguments to try to ignore inconvenient complications. That's worth at least $200k starting salary.*

*see, we're staying on track

[Anonymous User]

Mods please ban people posting about 500k income is middle class in a thread where we are discussing law firm salary decisions.

C’mon man, you can’t blame previous anons for calling out this idea that nyc associates are somehow in the same (or higher lmao) socio-economic class as TX associates

Again, taken out of context. Nobody said it's the same. It's just that you can't compare discretionary income and call it a day. Good thing lawyers still have the ability to use reductio ad absurdum arguments to try to ignore inconvenient complications. That's worth at least $200k starting salary.*

*see, we're staying on track

jfc

[nealric]

TX to $210k. Who's with me? Need to get to that upper-middle class status.

When you consider the savings that firms get in tx with lower overhead, lower taxes, etc., it is pretty ridiculous that tx associates don’t get paid more than somewhere expensive like sf/ny.

Billing rates are lower in Texas.

K&E bills out Houston attorneys at same rates as their other offices.

I don't care with K&E does. When I'm hiring outside counsel, the Texas option is almost always cheaper on an hourly basis than someone in NYC or DC.

K&E’s Houston office has become one of the largest in Houston (right around top five in terms of number of attorneys), so as somebody who hires Texas biglaw counsel, maybe you should care and be a little more in tune with things.

I don't think you are going to find many in-house types who obsessively track law firms in the same manner as law students and junior associates. We aren't betting on horse races. For the most part, we are looking for specific lawyers rather than firms. It's not uncommon for a lawyer to come to mind and we have to google to remember which firm that lawyer is with these days.

Finally, I'd also say that I doubt K&Es average partner and counsel billing rates are really the same nationally even if they bill associates out at the same rates. Partner rates tend to be determined on an individualized basis, and most of the really high-dollar practitioners will almost certainly be in NYC (and maybe Chicago in the case of K&E). While you can argue that's not relevant to associate comp, it does tend to impact overall profitability of an office. A partner making $1 million a year may look at a $190k first year differently from a partner making $500k a year.

[Anonymous User]

.

[nealric]

Finally, I'd also say that I doubt K&Es average partner and counsel billing rates are really the same nationally even if they bill associates out at the same rates. Partner rates tend to be determined on an individualized basis, and most of the really high-dollar practitioners will almost certainly be in NYC (and maybe Chicago in the case of K&E). While you can argue that's not relevant to associate comp, it does tend to impact overall profitability of an office. A partner making $1 million a year may look at a $190k first year differently from a partner making $500k a year.

Why bother opining when you are so verifiably ignorant?

If you'd like to correct something specific I've said, that would be a valuable addition to the discussion. If you are just going to add a snarky attack, you are just bringing the thread down. I hope you aren't associated with K&E.

[Anonymous User]

[Anonymous User]

Finally, I'd also say that I doubt K&Es average partner and counsel billing rates are really the same nationally even if they bill associates out at the same rates. Partner rates tend to be determined on an individualized basis, and most of the really high-dollar practitioners will almost certainly be in NYC (and maybe Chicago in the case of K&E). While you can argue that's not relevant to associate comp, it does tend to impact overall profitability of an office. A partner making $1 million a year may look at a $190k first year differently from a partner making $500k a year.

Why bother opining when you are so verifiably ignorant?

If you'd like to correct something specific I've said, that would be a valuable addition to the discussion. If you are just going to add a snarky attack, you are just bringing the thread down. I hope you aren't associated with K&E.

Ignore the trolls hiding behind the rampant misuse of the anon function. Being a tax practitioner, I’ve always found your contributions to this forum to be particularly valuable.