NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

i disagree the hot lateral market isnt good for juniors. were hiring an entry level junior to replace the 3rd year that left. this happens plenty in groups. its why 3L hiring has been a thing recently.

However, just because the legal economy is hot right now (compared to the legal market since 2008), law is still heading in the wrong direction of needing less and less people. So yes things are the best they've ever been right at this moment since 2007. But how did people do who applied to law school in 2006/7 during the peak times fare when they did OCI in 2008/2009 and graduated in 2010/2011?

There's just no reason for someone who is smart and capable to risk hoping the legal economy is still hot in 2-3 years.

So is this move to $190k happening or nah?

+1. Preferably before this summer...

[Internetdan]

Yes let's get this ship back on track

[Anonymous User]

i disagree the hot lateral market isnt good for juniors. were hiring an entry level junior to replace the 3rd year that left. this happens plenty in groups. its why 3L hiring has been a thing recently.

However, just because the legal economy is hot right now (compared to the legal market since 2008), law is still heading in the wrong direction of needing less and less people. So yes things are the best they've ever been right at this moment since 2007. But how did people do who applied to law school in 2006/7 during the peak times fare when they did OCI in 2008/2009 and graduated in 2010/2011?

There's just no reason for someone who is smart and capable to risk hoping the legal economy is still hot in 2-3 years.

So is this move to $190k happening or nah?

+1. Preferably before this summer...

I heard they'll send out a revised email with updated summer salaries

[Johann]

nah its not happening. things were really good up until august 2015 and work slowed down a bit. works down a bit from the peak 2014 levels.

i actually think one of the biggest psychological things holding this back is partners' lack of respect for our generation's work ethic. more vacations, less work in the office time, maternity and paternity time, work life balance, etc. no firm wants to be the first to move and ruin for it all the partners and they still have plenty of qualified candidates to hire from.

theres also the matter of the V10/15 who have the means to move salaries to 190k dont have any problems with talent. i think some firms in the lower vault range are starting to have more difficulty keeping and retaining talent, but they dont have the means to raise to 190k. so until people stop flocking to the V10/15 and willingly signing up for an extra couple hundred of billables for the same price in a way more expensive NYC, its gonna be that way.

not in 2016, not in 2017. we will see about 2018.

[Anonymous User]

Many of us are licking our wounds, trying to understand what went wrong. I have not been this humiliated since my inside source at USNWR failed me in the weeks leading up to the release of last year's USNWR rankings.

But I am doing more than just quietly stewing amid the mess of binders in my prestigious office. I've been working on finding better connections. When the leak spigot turns back on, I will know the what, when, why, where, and how of NY to 190K. There will be no more relying on sketchy anecdotes from summer associates at some V14 law firm. I will only accept reliable tips from within the V10 (except Skadden or Weil).

Accidental anon: this is rpupkin.

[Tiago Splitter]

The irrational excitement still kicks in whenever this thread gets bumped. This year it won't be so irrational.

[Desert Fox]

I think the odds of us even getting the same bonus as last year is like 75% at best. 0% raise. If the M&A market crashes, we'll get next to nothing. A very slow year and we get something like 2013 boneuses. Sorta slow, Cravath probably won't have the balls to unilaterally lower. But they could.

[TLSModBot]

Fun fact: lawyer salaries make up 60-70% of a BigLaw firm's expenses.

Fun fact 2: only half of the non-merged members of the AmLaw 200 have had two good years in a row (positive gross revenue increases)

Fun fact 3: NY is DEFINITELY going to 190K by the end of this year.

[jkpolk]

Pipe dream: all associates at (name your favorite v20) vote 1 for "firm's compensation" on the vault survey while all other associates vote 10. Firm looks so bad that it has to reactively raise comp to get any recruits.

[barkschool]

Pipe dream: all associates at (name your favorite v20) vote 1 for "firm's compensation" on the vault survey while all other associates vote 10. Firm looks so bad that it has to reactively raise comp to get any recruits.

Why doesn't everyone just select that everyone's firm comp is awful?

[UnicornHunter]

Pipe dream: all associates at (name your favorite v20) vote 1 for "firm's compensation" on the vault survey while all other associates vote 10. Firm looks so bad that it has to reactively raise comp to get any recruits.

Why doesn't everyone just select that everyone's firm comp is awful?

Prestige whore instincts kick in.

[Tls2016]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

[Thrive]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

I hear you but, on the other hand, partners in other markets are raising salaries. Especially in markets where the cost of living is already cheaper than NYC. So why are those partners raising salaries?

[jingosaur]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

Get the fuck out of here.

[rpupkin]

What am I missing?

The big picture.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

Also, as healthcare costs have risen, firms have been cutting their contribution to healthcare plans. So it is not like that is a huge expense for firms. Very few also have matching 401k plans or the like.

[Tls2016]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

Also, as healthcare costs have risen, firms have been cutting their contribution to healthcare plans. So it is not like that is a huge expense for firms. Very few also have matching 401k plans or the like.

Yes I know all of this. My monthly contribution for health, vision and dental was over $600. It was still more for the firm as well.

I was curious as to what you guys were seeing for reasons to expect salary to increase from the partners viewpoint. I understand the pressure from the associates viewpoint as rent has increased dramatically in NYC in the past 10 years and tuition as increased as well.

[Tls2016]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

I hear you but, on the other hand, partners in other markets are raising salaries. Especially in markets where the cost of living is already cheaper than NYC. So why are those partners raising salaries?

I didn't know they were. Possibly they want to attract people? Are they above $160,000?

[gk101]

I haven't understood that people expect partners to willingly raise salary out of their pocket. They can work around bonuses as needed and stay flexible with fixed compensaton. The current salary of $160,000 still causes the 0Ls to attend school with dreams of wealth.
Every projection I've read shows biglaw income as flat or small increase while costs like healthcare keep rising dramatically.
I just don't see anything pushing the partners to raise salaries.
What am I missing?

I hear you but, on the other hand, partners in other markets are raising salaries. Especially in markets where the cost of living is already cheaper than NYC. So why are those partners raising salaries?

I didn't know they were. Possibly they want to attract people? Are they above $160,000?

All the philly firms moved to 160k last year. precursor to NY to 190k next year.

[Tls2016]

Many of us are licking our wounds, trying to understand what went wrong. I have not been this humiliated since my inside source at USNWR failed me in the weeks leading up to the release of last year's USNWR rankings.

But I am doing more than just quietly stewing amid the mess of binders in my prestigious office. I've been working on finding better connections. When the leak spigot turns back on, I will know the what, when, why, where, and how of NY to 190K. There will be no more relying on sketchy anecdotes from summer associates at some V14 law firm. I will only accept reliable tips from within the V10 (except Skadden or Weil).

Accidental anon: this is rpupkin.

Wasn't trying to criticize you for this. I was trying to understand how you came to believe that 1st year salaries would increase by $30,000. Why not look at even a $10,000 or $15,000 base increase.
I guess I just have less faith in the partners being generous when they are cautious people.

[Johann]

everyone in here is joking TLS2016. noone actually thinks salaries are increasing anytime soon except bearsfan.

[cookiejar1]

I believe.

[rpupkin]

everyone in here is joking TLS2016. noone actually thinks salaries are increasing anytime soon except bearsfan.

Uhhh...mods?

[PennBull]

everyone in here is joking TLS2016. noone actually thinks salaries are increasing anytime soon except bearsfan.

Uhhh...mods?

[2014]

This rampant pessimism makes sense given the current climate but it's counterproductive. Let's set a hard date upon which we will thereafter continue doing god's work instead of the mess this has become. I propose the day the Amlaw 100 drops because we will then have HARD EVIDENCE that firms are in fact CRUSHING IT in these troubling times.